Germany 7-1 Brazil: Germany record a historic thrashing, winning the game in 30 minutes
The starting line-ups
In one of the most incredible matches in World Cup history, this ridiculous scoreline was an entirely fair reflection of Germany’s dominance.
Jogi Low named an unchanged side from the XI that had narrowly defeated France in the quarter-final.
Luiz Felipe Scolari was without the suspended Thiago Silva, and the injured Neymar. Dante was the obvious replacement at the back, while tricky winger Bernard was a surprise choice to replace Neymar, with Oscar moving inside to become the number ten. Luiz Gustavo returned after suspension, with Paulinho dropping out.
Incredibly, this game was finished after half an hour – it was 5-0, and Brazil were simply trying to avoid further embarrassment.
Germany attack into Brazil’s left-back zone
In such a stunningly convincing victory, it seems strange to highlight one zone where Germany were superior. Everything went right for them, everything went wrong for Brazil – there wasn’t one single aspect where the hosts even competed, let alone were better.
Nevertheless, it’s easy to pinpoint Germany’s main area of dominance – down their right, in Brazil’s left-back zone. For the first half hour, the number of times Germany broke in behind Marcelo was extraordinary, and equally ridiculous was the fact Marcelo didn’t the hint, remain in his position for a few minutes, and allow Brazil to get a foothold in the game. Instead, he kept motoring forward, and the German attacks kept on coming.
There were so many examples in the first half, that it’s worth going through them one-by-one…
At 3:17, Marcelo moves forward into the opposition half to close down Thomas Muller, but falls asleep when Germany win a throw. The left-back is caught badly out of position, and Sami Khedira sees the space, sprints into it, and Muller throws him the ball for a quick counter-attack.
Khedira plays in Miroslav Klose, and Germany have their first opportunity to break in behind because Muller has sprinted past Marcelo – who has fallen asleep for a second time in the same move – but Klose’s touch is poor, and the pass doesn’t come. Muller screams at Klose, frustrated he’s been denied a golden opportunity to break the deadlock, but he would have further opportunities. This was Brazil’s first warning sign, and this area of the pitch decided the game.
At 6:50, Marcelo is caught obscenely out of position as Brazil lose possession in midfield, and while Luiz Gustavo is attempting to cover, Muller has remained high up the pitch on the right flank, ready to break in behind. Khedira knocks the ball out to Muller, who has space to cross to the far post. He picks out Mesut Ozil, who unselfishly cuts the ball back to Khedira. His goalbound shot hits Toni Kroos.
At 9:35, Marcelo receives a short pass from Hulk inside the final third, tries a stepover and pass, but concedes possession and allows Khedira and Muller to break into space. Gustavo again tries to cover but is outmuscled by Khedira, and Marcelo actually recovers very impressively, sprinting back to tackle first Muller, then Khedira, atoning for his own error. Still, he raises his hand to apologise to his teammates, recognising how mistake.
As it happens, Germany took the lead from the resulting corner – Muller was unmarked after Germany blocked off his marker, David Luiz.
At 13:22, Muller tries to play a one-two with Khedira, but Marcelo blocks him and concedes a free-kick.
At 16:40, Marcelo’s attacking play resulted in one of Brazil’s best moments, where he and Hulk combined. Marcelo races in behind Philipp Lahm – but the German captain produces a superb sliding tackle inside the box.
At 18:35, Marcelo plays a ball forward into attack, which is intercepted by Jerome Boateng. Marcelo had continued his forward run, so Muller is yet again unmarked on the right. Kroos switches the play to that side, but the ball is overhit and Muller has to scramble to keep it in.
At 21:30, Marcelo again darts forward in advance of the ball, but the move breaks down. Yet again, Muller is breaking in behind the half-covering Gustavo, and his near post cross is cut out.
At 21:50, Lahm starts becoming involved in an attacking sense, and Hulk’s defensive deficiencies become clear. From a throw-in, he and Muller combine on the right. Then, Lahm moves the ball inside to Kroos, and Muller runs inside Marcelo and tees up Klose for the second goal.
At 23:45, Ozil sees all the fun his teammates are having on the right, so drifts to that flank, further overloading Brazil. He combines with the overlapping Lahm, whose cut-back finds a Muller mis-hit, and the ball runs through to Kroos at the far post, who makes it 3-0.
By this point, other problems were taking over. The pattern of Germany’s final third passes before the 30min mark, and after that point, are very different – the right-sided bias is less obvious.
Pressing
As impressive as Germany’s ruthless, selfless counter-attacking was the manner they prevented Brazil playing their midfield passing game. The high line that was so perilous (if ultimately successful) in the 2-1 victory over Algeria was perfect against Fred, a slow striker who doesn’t offer any running in behind the opposition. He always wanted to come short, and Germany were happy pushing up and using a very high line.
In turn, this gave the midfield license to press, with Kroos marking Fernandinho and Khedira pushing up on Gustavo. The fourth goal summed up this simple strategy perfectly – Kroos caught Fernandinho in possession, swapped passes with Khedira, who was also pushing forward, and scored the fourth. Khedira netted the fifth after David Luiz had charged out and left Dante isolated.
It was simply becoming too easy. Kroos summed up Germany – brilliant technically but combative and powerful too.
Germany’s simple (but perfectly implemented) midfield press meant Brazil’s defenders had nowhere to go when they received possession. Gustavo and Fernandinho were being tracked, while Oscar tried to collect possession in very advanced positions, in behind Bastian Schweinsteiger – it took him surprisingly long to realise he needed to drop deep and work the ball forward more gradually.
Look at the passing in the first half hour – Brazil simply played the ball across the defence, while Germany worked it forward quickly:
By a certain point, of course, Brazil’s players had completely lost confidence, and the midfielders simply stopped looking for the ball.
David Luiz
David Luiz’s performance has received most criticism, which is natural considering he was the captain, and he completely lost his head after half-time. But in the first half he was the only Brazilian making things happen. Passes into the midfield zone simply weren’t an option, so it was entirely natural that he hit accurate long balls, and attempted to dribble forward.
He hit some excellent long diagonals to the left, usually to Hulk, and went on a couple of mazy runs, which worked nicely as Germany were effectively man-marking in midfield, so this forced someone to leave their man and stop David Luiz. Klose, in fairness, worked very hard too, often battling back – and at one stage receiving David Luiz’s elbow in his face when trying to make a tackle.
Broken side
Towards the end of the first half, the lack of cohesion in Brazil’s side was incredible – six defending, four attacking, and no link between. The six couldn’t get the ball to the four, the four didn’t help the six win the ball. It was the classic broken side, and not something usually witnessed at this level.
At half-time Scolari brought on Paulinho and Ramires for Hulk and Fernandinho, simply hoping to inject some energy into a lifeless performance. Brazil switched to more of a 4-3-3, with Gustavo behind Ramires and Paulinho, and in reality this is probably the shape Scolari should have started with. In fairness, Brazil did rally at the start of the second half, forcing Manuel Neuer into some good saves.
The crucial change was Germany’s, though. Andre Schurrle replaced Klose, and just like against Algeria, played upfront and offered pace in behind – which was perfect as Brazil piled forward and left space at the back. He scored two goals, including another assisted by Lahm from the right.
Scolari’s final change, replacing Fred with Willian and playing without a striker, was another attempt to bring more energy to the side, although in reality Brazil needed so much more. Oscar’s 90th-minute goal wasn’t even a consolation.
Conclusion
This should be regarded as one of the most historic defeats football as seen: the hosts, pre-tournament favourites and the most successful side in the history of the World Cup humbled 1-7 in their own country, in the semi-final. Everyone is wise after the event, and many will suggest Germany were always likely to win, but in reality, with the bookmakers had Germany and Brazil at exactly the same odds to triumph. This was considered 50:50, and expected to be a tight, tense game – that shouldn’t be overlooked.
Instead, it was an absolute thrashing. There were two key reasons Germany won. First, Muller (and Khedira and Lahm) broke in behind Marcelo, who endured a horrendous opening first half hour. Second, the midfield pressing was intense, enabled by the high defensive line, and Germany refused to let Brazil play through midfield.
Everything was carried out brilliantly, but it wasn’t actually a particularly complex approach from Germany, and you sense they had another gear if required. By the second half, they were surely saving themselves for the final, with substitute Schurrle attempting to play his way into the XI.
Literally everything went wrong for Brazil. Perhaps the selection of Bernard sums it up best – it was a hugely surprising decision, and was it partly because Bernard is a Belo Horizonte boy, and received a tremendous reception from this crowd when he played in this stadium at the Confederations Cup last year? Maybe Scolari was trying to replace Neymar’s popularity, rather than his attacking impact. The effect on the pitch, of course, was that Brazil were horrendously broken into two sections – not that Bernard was, individually, at fault.
This was a colossal failure on every level, however. Scolari has taken the blame, and some of his selection decisions must be questioned. But the long-term question is more serious, and must concentrate on why Brazil has stopped producing world-class attacking players – which meant a dependence upon Neymar, underperformers like Hulk and Fred guaranteed of their place, and a cynical, aggressive and sometimes dirty approach which turned many neutrals against Brazil, once the home of beautiful football.
Germany 7-1 Brazil: Germany record a historic thrashing, winning the game in 30 minutes
Germany when they play like this remind me of New Zealand playing rugby – not actually playing tremendously complicated football, but doing the basics incredibly well, and it’s beautiful to watch.
Brazil played it right into Germany’s hands.
Their goals were simple. It was more of a case of Brazil being really BAD rather than Germany being good, they just played a normal game – nothing extraordinary.
Argies and Dutch won’t go down so easily. Sit back, stop that early goal, draw the match and hit them on the counter. Just one ball over the top of Boateng and a goal for Brazil.
i’m so tired of this…
“…and a cynical, aggressive and sometimes dirty approach which turned many neutrals against Brazil, once the home of beautiful football.”
Not in my lifetime it hasn’t. They’ve always had a load of muscle-bound doofers and three or four flair players. But these doofers are complete doofers! Never heard of ‘em.
Simply say you hate Germans, no need to hide behind football…
The truth is in the middle: Neither is Germany an average team which profited from Brazil being very bad, nor is Germany a superpower team that managed to trash another amazing team. Brazil was quite poor, especially tactically, and the German team (which is tactically intelligent and technically great in the execution) exploited that perfectly. However, one must also state that Germany did struggle against Algeria, mainly, but even against France. One must also state that, objectively, Germany are far better even on paper, i.e. they played against an objectively much weaker side. Finally, I’m not sure if this result will be positive for Germany in the final, as it means a) that Argentina/Holland will come super-prepared, b) there might be complacency due to a feeling of superiority and c) Argentina/Holland will avoid leaving any space in the back, i.e. they are unlikely to naively push everyone forward as Brazil did.
While I agree with you about it being somewhere in the middle, however as ZM said the bookmakers had this game at virtually 50/50. Granted Brazil was at home, so on a neutral field Germany would have been favored a bit more, but still I can’t say that “on paper” Germany is so superior.
If they were, they would have been heavy bookmakers’ favorites.
Although I certainly agree with everything you said about Arg/Holland. If I were a German fan I would be a bit nervous about peaking a game a too early perhaps.
The high defensive lines has been repeatedly exploited by various sided at the club level over the last two seasons (primarily as a reaction against Barcelona). It should have been straightforward to take advantage of that – Germany would likely not be here had the Algerians had some more composure (and ultimately, quality) in front of goal and if it wasn’t for Neuer playing a perfect game as a sweeper-keeper.
After that game I actually expected Brazil to do exactly that, but they lost their primary weapon that could have taken advantage of the high defensive line, and they committed suicide with their line-up and tactics in this game. As ZM very correctly pointed out, Fred against a high-defensive line is precisely the thing that suits it best. And the high defensive line is also the best recipe for destroying a team in the first half. Guardiola’s Barca used to do that regularly – play a high defensive line, compress the play, force turnovers just in front of the opponent’s box, score easy goals, be up 5-0 by the 30-40th minutes, game over. Same thing happened yesterday, although it was far from the only issue, of course.
So this is indeed a lot more the case of Brazil being absolutely horrible than Germany being amazing.
But Brazil was horrible for a reason – they were in this situation to begin with because they stopped producing world-class midfielders and forwards.
Yeah.. agreed, brazil made germany look really good. and no thanks to some silly personalities and silly defending and silly mentality, jumble them up in the form of marcelo, luiz, fernandinho and scolari and minus your most reliable defender thiago silva – you get the thrashing of decades. Argentina won’t go down that easily-and i believe they will triumph over the germans in the final.
Filipe Luis would have been a much better choice than Marcelo, if only…
Marcelo is trash, Luiz is trash without Silva, and thanks Scolari for underestimating Germany midfield and uses Bernard and plays a 4-2-3-1, instead of a 4-3-3
Obviously, Marcelo is not “trash”. You don’t play regularly for one of the best club teams in the word – if you are “trash”.
Be serious.
He had, however, a truly terrible game against Germany.
Eh, he was excellent in the CL final when he came on. He plays for Real Madrid so I don’t think he is “trash”. Although it is true that his good play was all going forward, and he can be at times a defensive liability. And in this game he was absolutely brutal no doubt (but it’s just one game).
If a left back cannot defend AT ALL, he is bad
good full backs must be capable in both attack and defence, like Maldini and Lahm
He can defend when he wants too though. It’s not like he “can’t”.
I agree! He is not thrash, but he is bad. Here in Brazil if the player has tricky skills he is considered a genious. Modern football requires more and Marcelo is not the kind of player that forgoes an attack for a deffensive appearance.
Agreed, both are way too overated, and its only thanks to thiago silva and julio cesar being a real world class defender and keeper that could keep brazil organized. David luiz is super overated and marcelo was just an accident waiting to happen- again and again and again the germans were attacking down his flank and he is nowhere to be seen, he even plays the german player onside on the 2nd goal- how really tactically naive is that. And luis was super idiotic having lost his marking of mueller and complaining as if the other brazilians were at fault-he was the weak link-together with marcelo. In fact i dare to say the germans knew way too well luis was rubbish, even when he was playing with chelsea mourinho must be thinking i MUST SHIP this bozzo out. And psg paid so much for him the arabs are really stupid. And scolari, my god he is not a coach, he is a motivator and he is tactically terrible. How he came to the idea of playing luiz as a centre defender and making him captain is unbelievable and their tactics didn’t look very convincing, i am wondering if he had any idea at all on how to evade germany’s pressing. even luiz doesn’t play as a centreback for chelsea you know why? because he is not reliable , he’s a fake and mourinho does not trust him.i am just glad maicon had a decent game. and oscar where were you, this game should have called for a kaka or ronaldinho.
Marcelo is and has always been terrible defensively. He just doesn’t have any discipline at all. He can be very good when he is making runs forward, but against a side that targets him he can be a total liability.
Another big problem was that the centerbacks and the midfielders were in complete disarray. Khedira (of all people!) was breaking them down completely with his runs and some passing. Their positioning in the first goal, the fourth goal and a lot of times in between was very poor. It was just like they were playing with each other for the first time. It left me thinking that Thiago Silva was actually the key player for Brazil the whole time.
What do you mean?
Khedira is a world class midfielder and is well know for his fantastic runs and aggression in attack. Possibly the bext box to box midfielder after Arturo Vidal.
So there is no surprise tjat it was precisely Khedira of all people who did this to Brazil.
You know what Brazil were really missing? A deep-lying playmaker. Maybe not a Pirlo or a Xavi but a player who will set the tempo and get the ball from the defensive to attacking third. Maybe a Kroos type or an attacker who will drop deep like Messi. I’m not sure the country has any but that’s what they needed. Maybe Elano. Looking at their recent call-ups on Wikipedia really demonstrates how bare the cupboard really is. The 2006 team was naive and the 2010 team was very tactical and disciplined but lacked quality. This team was like the 2010 team but without the quality of Kaka, Robinho, Fabiano. Germany are good but not great. Both the Dutch and the Argies have superior players and greater tactical flexibility. Germany still has some weak players individually in defense who will be exploited by better teams.
Hernanes is probably the closest thing. Why didn’t he start?
I think Oscar could have been that guy but instead they choose to build it around Neymar shafting Oscar to the wings and they played the whole toruney badly. I think Hernanes is another as well. Germany dont have a true deep lying playmaker either but all three of Schweinstiger, Khedira and Kroos are intelligent enough to play from deep as needed.The transition game that these three bring is incredible and it been key that they all have been match fit and played together in the team at the same time. Low’s realized this and hence why saw Lahm in the middle till all three were up and running.
I have seen Willian perform this very role for years, first for Shakhtar in the Europa League and UEFA Champions League (he teamed with Fernandinho for 5 years or so), and more recently with Chelsea, in the EPL (where he distributes to Oscar and Ramires). I’m not saying Willian is a miracle worker, or that his presence in Brazil’s starting lineup would have changed this outcome. But it would have given Brazil far greater organization than it had. Scolari’s failure to recognize this is damning.
Still, even with a Willian on 10 you have no guarantee that the six guys behind him don’t screw up. The most remarkable thing about this game was not that Brazil couldn’t create chances up front (we knew that), but that their back line with supposedly their strongest players completely disintegrated.
I actually think Fernandinho could have played this role greatly but he was basically set to man mark Kroos and as you can see he failed spectacularly and Luiz roaming forward so much meant Fernandinho had to constantly track back and do CB work – which he failed at (Klose goal 1,Kroos goal 1 he fails to intercept, Kroos goal 2 he is embarrasingly pickpocketed – meanwhile Luiz is out of position etc)
This is something he rarely encounters at MCFC and only has to dash back and do CB work in extreme emergencies.
Its like Luiz just decided he wanted to play CDM and while OP pointed out a reem of Marcelo’s failures – I think this was down to his lack of quality meanwhile I cant point out all of Luiz’s mistake and they are all tactically and at least 3 of germanys goals could have been prevented had Luiz been in position
I’m not sure any deep-lying midfielder or shuttler could have made the difference for Brazil as long as Fred was playing. As ZM pointed out, Fred’s lack of pace allowed the Germans to stay comfortable with their high line and dedicate so many players to the press. This seems weird but what if the third midfielder player (the shuttler) and the the CF were interchangeable? Like Hernanes and Willian. It would have been difficult for the Germans to mark them. Then again, Big Phil probably didn’t anticipate Germany’s high line.
How could he have not anticipated it – they have been playing it throughout the WC?
Maybe luiz decided he could take on the whole german midfield on his own and brazil got killed because of it.
” Germany are good but not great. Both the Dutch and the Argies have superior players and greater tactical flexibility. Germany still has some weak players individually in defense who will be exploited by better teams.”
i think what you are missing here is their obvious advantage of being a squad that has been playing together for many years on the highest levels: 1st, you have a strong block of fcbayern players (6 in the starting 11) that went to the cl finals three times in the last 5 years! 2nd, you have 6 players on the starting 11 that were already fielded together in the u21 european championships 2009 which they won(!). 3rd, the starting 11 from yesterday shares 8 players with the starting 11 from the 2010 4-0 against argentina.
all these players have extemely gained in terms of international, top-level experience and what they might lack in individual ability they can easily make up in terms of skills and spirit at the team level. at least that’s what i’d say.
the only comparable national team in terms of cohesion transferred from club level is spain with their strong block of barca players. on all football tactics blogs that i read it is repeatedly emphasized that national teams lack cohesion compared to club teams and that’s why I think Germany are indeed the favourite for winning the 2014 wc
I agree with everything you said. The Germans will be favorites. But they’re not much better then Argentina or Holland. Boateng in the middle and Howedes at left-back are huge weaknesses that Robben, Sneidjer, Messi, Aguero and Lavezzi will deal with far better than Bernard, Hulk and Fred could. Cohesion is essential but squad selection and tactics are just as important. Germany have been impressive for the last two games but should have lost to Algeria due to poor tactics (high line) and squad selection (Mertesacker playing a high line against speedy players).
Well, I just said that they will be the favourites which doesn’t mean that they will definitely win and I can easily imagine van Gaal outcoaching Löw (though I don’t hope this’ll happen)
To discuss who “should” have lost which game in hindsight is useless.
“Germany have been impressive for the last two games but should have lost to Algeria due to poor tactics (high line)”
Should have? Come on. Germany absolutely annihilated Algeria in the second half. At worst, they probably should have won 2-1 in regulation. Quite frankly, if you are going to say Germany should have lost you can say the same thing about the Dutch and Costa Rica. Both games went AET so they both should have lost right?
I’m a butthurt fan of Brazil (Had to get that out of the way.)
I’d like to thank you for your observation. The last two sentences of your post give me comfort after the horror I witnessed last night. When Thiago Silva got suspended and Neymar injured I was expecting Germany to win… but not like this. This German team is but a shadow of the team that played in 2010 so for them to win like this really depresses me. On the night they were indeed 6 goals better than Brazil but not because of how good they were but because of how bad Brazil was.
I honestly feel that Germany are individually weaker than any other team in the top four, have an attacking philosophy that doesn’t suite them (They look clumsy trying to pass the ball around like Spain) and their defense won’t be able to withstand a confident attack.
They will definitely lose against Holland in the final (Yes I have written off Messi and co.) I just hope the score will be an accurate reflection of the match like we saw last night and people will realize that Germany really aren’t that good.
I don’t think you have a good understanding about football. Lots of hilarious statements there, buddy.
I only started being interested in HOW football is played when Barca and Spain started dominating world football. Most of my limited knowledge I have acquired from this blog and reading comments from people like you. But I honestly think that I have cracked it…
The difference in class between Holland and Germany is glaring. And I can’t understand why you’d think that my understanding of football is below par. Please educate me… which one of my statements is false?
please name the players in the dutch side which you feel are better than any german player. please enlighten me
That the Germans are individually weaker than any other team in the last 4. They have far more pedigree between them collectively than the other 3- they boast the world’s finest goalkeeper and right back at least, more technical ability in their midfield by far than the other three sides, and many other individuals with champions league winners medals, and have gotten to the final despite marco reus, ilkay gundogan and marcel schmelzer being absent. Holland and Argentina are largely dependent on one or two world class individuals amongst a squad of average/raw/unproven players.
Average goalimpact values of starting XI:
Germany 154.1
Brazil 128.0
Netherlands 128.8
Argentina 132.9
Meaning, Gemany fielded the strongest collection of individuals in the tournament. See goalimpact.com.
After yesterday, I can safely conclude that I have no career in football management. My football IQ is that of a worm.
BTW: Men’s shortlists for FIFA Ballon d’Or 2013 listed 23 players.
5 of these play for Germany: Müller, Özil, Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Neuer.
Brazil has 2, Netherlands 2, Argentina 1.
Don’t say nonsense. Germany have a far better team than the 2010 one. The 2010 one could only play on the counter, hence, the minute they got a possession-based team (i.e. Spain) they looked mediocre and went out. This team commands both possession and counter, when needs be.
They also have a great players on virtually all lines, they know what they’re doing tactically, i.e. they have a clear identity, and have cohesion.
On paper they look better than Argentina or Holland for sure, especially when talking about the neuralgic (for any team) midfield: would you rather have Mascherano/Biglia/Perez and De Jong/Sneider/Blind or Kroos/Khedira/Schweinsteiger? Let’s be serious!
Of course, that doesn’t mean that either Argentina or Holland can’t beat them or that Germany is invincible. Of course they can loose, if Argentina or Holland get their tactics right. Clearly, Germany had troubles against Algeria and France, so these games can pave the way for other teams too.
My statements sound crazy but they are true. Holland are by far the most superior team in this tournament and no other team stands a chance. Certainly not this clumsy looking German team. If you want to see how good this German team really are when tested, look at the match against Ghana.
buddy, you’re an idiot. the Germans have, position by position except for Robben and van Persie, a better team than the Dutch. This Holland team, while masterfully coached and positioned on the field is a far cry from classic Dutch teams. The Germans are clear favorites now. Why is the Ghana game the one that reflects the real german team? Because it’s the only game that helps your deluded statements make any sense? Clumsy passing it around? Are you high?
Following your logic, if you want to see “how good Holland really is” then carefully watch again the games against Mexico and Costa Rica!
Well, no, simply put. But the one thing that one might like about Holland in the possible matchup with Germany is the presence of a back 3. Germany absolutely dismantled Holland in the Euro 2012 (only a 2-1 scoreline, but in reality much worse) by doing exactly what ZM points out here – exploiting the poor positioning of an adventuring left back (Willems) through Muller and Ozil. This left an already-dodgy center-half pairing (then Heitinga and Mathijsen, each arguably of better quality than any CB the Dutch have at this tournament) even more exposed. Three at the back hasn’t been without incident for Holland so far, but it certainly lets them cover for a total lack of proper fullbacks. Dirk Kuyt at WB? Surely you must be joking! But positioning mistakes aren’t nearly as big an issue in this system, and would be more difficult for Germany to exploit this time around, you’d guess.
to SKPain: nothing of what you said make any sense…go back to see the game, its true that Brasil played awful but Germany played great football
There are a few weak links in Germany and they have had their share of disappointing performances, but if you take their “core” group of Özil, Müller, Kroos, Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Hummels, Neuer – that’s an impressive amount of individual talent no matter how you cut it, and among Brazil/France/Argentina/Holland/etc I can’t really see an equivalent number of players of that level.
Germany are not unbeatable, but judging from the teams that did well against them over the past years, it takes very disciplined tight defending coupled with fast breaks using long balls behind their (slow-ish) CB’s.
I’m not expert, but I have to LOL that Holland has better players than Germany. Other than Robben and RVP (perhaps one or 2 others) I don’t think they have a player that would get into to the German side
Saying you’re a butthurt fan of Brazil doesn’t mean that the butthurt isn’t affecting your judgment, which it clearly is. None of the midfielders from any of the other 3 semi-finalists would make it into the german squad, let alone the starting 11, and of the entire dutch squad, only Robben, Van Persie and Daley Blind, given germany’s problem position, would make their squad.
cant see how you can compare the current germany and dutch team, the dutch rely on sneijder, robben and van persie to even compete. van gaal came out and went against his own philosophy and has been playing a 5-3-2 due to the lack of quality he has at his disposal. i could only name a couple of players which would even get into the germany squad from this current dutch side.
cant see how you can compare the current germany and dutch team, the dutch rely on sneijder, robben and van persie to even compete. van gaal came out and went against his own philosophy and has been playing a 5-3-2 due to the lack of quality he has at his disposal. i could only name a couple of players which would even get into the germany squad from this current dutch side.
I agree 100% about Brazil (not so much about Germany, but). I really have no idea as I’m far from an expert on football (especially Brazilian), but I remember reading some stuff by a fellow named Roberticus he seemed to really know his stuff, and he was basically saying that Brazilians refuse to play Xavi/Pirlo types (or something equivalent) in deeper lying positions. It’s just not part of their culture. But I agree they could really benefit from it.
aehmmm, where do the Dutchs and Argies have superior players except for Robben and Messi? Especially Argentina have a poor middlefield and defense compared to the German side.
And I don’t think that there has been one team at the WC with a greater tactical flexibility than the German side, considering their huge variety of gifted players (also on the bench), even though phantastic players like Guendogan and Reus are missing.
And who are Germany’s “some weak players individually in defense” you are talking about except for Höwedes? Lahm? Hummels? Boateng? Neuer?
I think the problem was showing right from when Scolari picked his squad especially when it came to the defenders. Maicon and Alves have aged badly and it showed and it was a terrible terrible call not to pick Miranda. Howedes was easily teh weak link in the Germany setup and he was as forward as Klose was in the Brazilian half. David Luiz will always remain a Playstation footballer and it showed once again(Jose Murinho did a doozy there). Another is that you cant play a a 2 man central midfield anymore thats this isolated from defense or attack and the lack of transition was showing. As for Marcelo, this has always been a problem and he showed it even before the world cup by how he has been used by Real in the past few years.
In fairness, Maicon was hardly the problem against Germany.
I think the midfield zone was key, but not mostly because of Fernandinho’s and Gustavo’s performance (although not impressing at all, particularly Fernandinho seemed passive and messed up a couple of times), but because they did not get help from anywhere. Marcelo let them down a number of times, the attacking players had a too relaxed view on being a defensive unit. And the central defense as well did a mess out of it somethimes..
Löw played his cards well, Brazil’s defensive chaos wasn’t a surprise, we’ve seen it, even with Silva, in the previous matches. Analysts (also on ZM) had already wondered if they could cope with a well-organised, high quality European side. After this, I would even speculate that Brazil would’ve struggled against a France or Belgium too, although obviously not *this* badly.
Opportunists everywhere are now screaming that Kaka, Ronaldinho and loads of others should’ve been selected, but the defence was so shockingly bad that wouldn’t have made an inch of a difference here. And it’s not as if Brazil have incompetent nobodies in the back – these are veteran Champions League winners, all of them. Marcelo was amazing in the CL final, for example. Scolari must be (and already is) heavily criticised for his failure to turn this collection of champions into a disciplined defensive line. The limitations of Fernandinho and Gustavo as defensive midfielders were already obvious from the previous matches, and it’s clear that any side with weak DMs is mincemeat for this German team. If Holland (who are missing their two best DMs, Nigel de Jong and Kevin Strootman) gets to play Germany, Van Gaal will have his work cut out for him.
Hulk gets ridiculed for his lack of any refinement in his playing and his shoddy finishing, but that’s the player he is – like Dirk Kuyt he’s a technically limited, hardworking winger whose main function is to bring energy, press hard, and open up space for the real superstars who score the goals. Fred is not this superstar and needs a brilliant 10 behind him, not a workhorse. As for Neymar, well we know his story.
I don’t really want to join the familiar band of Özil critics, but in a German team where *everything* went smoothly, he’s still sticks out as the underperforming one. He should’ve finished better on the chance he got, and too many passes and take-ons were thwarted.
Oranje will not be able to play a possession game against Germany. They will have to counter.
Germany will get murdered by Robben if they try to play a line as high as this against Oranje though.
We’ll see if Oranje gets by Messi first though. I’m nervous about that.
I have to disagree with you on Marcelo. For majority of the CL knock out games Real Madrid played Coentrao over Marcelo for the extra defensive solidity he provides. Marcelo did indeed have a strong CL final off the bench but only really in an attacking sense. By the time he came on Atletico was in full shutdown mode and nearly stopped attacking entirely. Other than the occasional counter, Marcelo in that game wasn’t really tested defensively and thus I feel his reputation for being suspect defensively at the highest level is still correct.
Sure David Luiz looked great roaming into midfield but he was doing Marcelo and the untested Dante a great disservice doing this as once Germany broke back in behind the CDMs it was simple maths of Muller, Khedira and Kross vs Marcelo and Dante. – Add this to how you greatly pointed out the number of times Marcelo was hugely out of position. His nonsense of thinking he is a LW might be good against lesser opponents but not germany.
The worse thing about Brazils initial tactics of lobbing effective diagonal balls upfront is that its one that Most of the Bayern players are greatly familiar with as it they used it to Destroy Man City and a host of others last season. Additionally I really believe that the absence of Neymar meant that Brazil could have been really effective in a 4-5(2-3)-1 with Oscar in the 10, hulk upfront and Willian/Bernard a bit more compact and the attacks coming from midfield. It was really bizarre to see all of Brazils attacks starting from the CBs even after 3-0 and this basically doomed them
Brazil were hugely overrated this whole tournament and home field advantage really means nothing at this stage against elite teams. Odds wise they have to be one of the most overated WC potential winners I can remember and people pointing towards the Confeds cup might as well use friendlies as a basis of analysis.
With Neymar and Silva on the park they could have taken it. What we overlooked was how thin this squad was. Remove the their captain (The best defender in the world) and their ONLY star attacker and what do you have? Nothing. And nothing is exactly what we saw yesterday.
This match showed, above all else, how weak a manager Scolari is. He is indeed an outstanding motivator, but his notions of football frozed in the 1980’s.
He won the World Cup in 2002 with a team of great players (Cafu, Roberto Carlos, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo). He took Portugal to Euro’04 final with a team based on FC Porto Champions League winning side (Ricardo Carvalho, Paulo Ferreira, Nuno Valente, Costinha, Maniche, Deco) plus Figo, Rui Costa, Pauleta and a young Cristiano Ronaldo, loosing to Greece, a surprising team that managed to surprise Scolari 3 times in 6 months, including the opening and final game of the tournament.
His flaws with Portugal in 2004 were the same as now, 10 years after. He didn’t study oponents or adapted the team, and puts is faith on the bond with the players he chooses.
When I saw is lineup I was sure Germany would win – never by this margin, at most two goals. Who plays a midfield duo (and not even its stronger), 4 players that don’t defend, a free floating left-back and a central defender who likes to roam up the field against Germany? Didn’t he watched them play ever? Why not bring Paulinho and Ramires instead of Fernandinho and Bernard? Why not use a quick and skilled Willian from the start instead of the helpless and hapless Fred? Why not use Germany’s high line at his favor with Hulk and Willian?
When you say that Marcelo didn’t took the hint, what about Scolari? Wasn’t he watching?
He took a team with Pauleta as his forward to a European Championship Final and a World Cup semifinal. In those tournaments he scored a total of 1 goal in 10 games. None were scored in the knockout stages. It would actually be 1 goal in 11 games if you count the third place game he started.
He took a team with Fred as his center forward to a World Cup semifinal as well.
He took two different teams to World Cup semifinals with his primary center forwards scoring a total of 2 goals in 11 games and none were scored in the knockout stages.
I think that makes you a good manager.
Your opinion and you’re entitled to it.
I’ve never found him a good manager, not even when he won the World Cup or managed Portugal.
In the first case, a team packed with great players and a “strange” World Cup if you think of what happened to other potential contenders such as Italy and Spain. But, he motivated the team to perfection and he has credit for that.
In 2004, he needed a blow in the first game to do what everyone was telling he must do: pick the basis of the Champions League winning team and use it to your advantaged. Nevertheless, he managed not to learn any lessons from playing the greeks and lost the final. A year later, Greece managed to won a friendly game in the usual manner. Losing 3 times with the same team (that despite being tactically brilliant, was inferior) without learning anything makes you a bad manager.
Yes but the players you have do matter. What could Scolari do, except building a disciplined tough side, in circumstance where there are no more Cafus, Rivaldos, Ronaldos, Ronaldinhos etc. in Brazil? Let’s be objective: ANY manager would have struggled a lot winning a WC with players of this quality. The last point of M. Cox is the most incisive of all:
“But the long-term question is more serious, and must concentrate on why Brazil has stopped producing world-class attacking players – which meant a dependence upon Neymar, underperformers like Hulk and Fred guaranteed of their place, and a cynical, aggressive and sometimes dirty approach which turned many neutrals against Brazil, once the home of beautiful football.”
This is not Scolari’s fault, but a deeper question on contemporary Brazilian football as a whole! What’s his fault, however, is the fact that he didn’t even manage to build this tactically disciplined (and defensively tough) side to at least compete decently in the semi-final.
Agree with Bruno.
Scolari completely failed tactically.
How can amyone think that a 2 man midfield could handle Kroos, Khedira, and Schweinsteiger, all of whom are very energetic, tough midfielders that love to bomb forward?
It was suicide.
And his decision to field Bernard and Hulk- two wingers who never defend- ahead of Marcelo and Maicon- who love to attack- was madness too.
Agree with you on Scolari. Even if we forgive his initial pick of the 11, he was watching Marcelo and Hulk (yes Hulk, I don’t think he is criticized enough) roll out the red carpet for Germany. Why didn’t he instruct them to correct their positioning, stop making forward runs (Marcelo) and help out the full back (Hulk)? Yes the players were individually at fault but he is seeing the whole picture unfold in front of him. Why not take corrective action? Where was Oscar when Brazil were finding it difficult to play out of defense? Why wasn’t he instructed to fall back and play closer to the midfield two? He was an ideal answer to the German press. Brazil went a goal down and immediately looked to bomb forward to even the deficit. The result was 4-0 within 26mins. Surely Scolari needed to take control of the game and its pattern before looking to score.
Roborto Macini use to get a lot of stick for introducing a defensive mid when Man City went behind. But that meant that the team had a much solid defensive base to attack from, freeing the likes of Yaya to move forward. I expected Scolari to do something similarly proactive, but he didn’t even do the reactive bit!
excellent as usual ZM. particularly like the final para. disagree a bit on Luiz, i initially thought the stick he was taking was because we know him better and his flaws, but my god…looking back at the Klose goal..he stands rooted & just watches. i’ve only ever seen Zat Knight deliberately not try like that. DL stands rooted again for Schurrle’s 1st. he goes charging into a crazy tackle & loses it. & refuses to chase back..(in the first half) before the 5th goal if i remember rightly ! ( easy to lose track !) . and then on Schurrle’s 2nd goal he also fails to do the basics & track him.
i was surprised Scolari didn’t go 4/3/3. & like ZM says,,not challenging the germans high line with pace was crazy. meanwhile coutinho and lucas moura sit on at home or on hol. maybe it’s best for those 2 that they avoided that shambles
Very good points on Luiz. I’m generally a Luiz apologist and I’m sorry that he’s leaving Chelsea but this performance will give all his haters years of evidence for why he’s not someone you can count on to play in a championship side back four (although he will get it right at times too, see Champions League Final).
The Klose goal was a classic Luiz moment of brain turning off/ball watching, as was Schurrle’s goal as you point out.For the fourth and fifth goals he wasn’t even in the picture when the goals were being scored. Busy playing hero ball. You can even be harsh and suggest he was at fault for the first goal.
Horror show.
You basically said everything I had to say. Plus David Luiz also missed Muller at the first goal. Don’t lose track:
1st Goal – David Luiz doesnt find Muller, who scores freely at a corner]
2nd Goal – DL just watches, rooted to the floor, while Dante, Marcelo and Julio Cesar stops only Klose’s first try, not the rebound
5th Goal – DL roams forward and never gets back
7th Goal – DL really doesnt care if Schurlle is running behind him, and slowly follows him
C’mon ZM, everything is right about the analysis except for compliments to the worst player of the match. And his attitude, as the captain, definetely didnt help
i am german and i agree that i was mostly brazil loosing control of basically everything that lead to this. no side is so much better at that level to lead to such a score based only an skill or tactical approach.
what i really liked from my team was that they kept pushing even after the 3-0 and finished them of quickly.
the players aknowledged in the interviews that they are happy, but its not saying anything about the final. And they said it worth nothing if you dont win the world cup. its historical and all, but everyone would rather win 1-0 and win the damn trophy. we are waiting since 1990( the day of the match yesterday was exactly 24 years after winning the Cup the last time) and four semi finals in a row and you can expect a title from the team.
i’d rather have argentina as i think they will fit better to the german style and i would see a good chance to win. against holland is a big rivalry and i think they are better than argentina.
we’ll have to wait and see how Hummels knee heals, he would be missed a lot.
It’s completely true – while entertaining as hell, nothing could be learned from this match for the final. Both Holland and Argentina play a completely different game, with different strengths and tactics. It’s funny (or tragic, from the fans point of view) that Ghana and Algeria showed how to make life difficult for this German team – but this was all completely ignored by Scolari who (apparently) thought that their usual game would suffice.
Hi I’m new here and not really a tactician. So please be gentle.
What bothers me with your assessment that “Ghana and Algeria showed how to make life difficult for this German team” is that Germany had a completely different XI on the pitch in both games. Afterwards, Löw brought Lahm back to the right side, replaced weak link Mustafi, substituted the slow Mertesacker for Hummels (or brought Boateng back to his position as ID) and letting Schweinsteiger play as a 6. I don’t think the matches against Ghana and Algeria would have been remotely the same with the starting formation of the France or Brazil matches.
You’re right, Germany plays with a different formation against weaker opponents. But another example how to take on Germany was France in the QF – playing with a disciplined back 4, a well organised trio of center midfielders. Their tactic was to play it careful, keep pressing whenever the Germans attack, try the occasional long ball behind German lines, and let the wingers attempt to get some crosses in (=less risky when they lose possession). Unambitious (and in the end it didn’t get the result they wanted) but with a bit of luck it could’ve worked out for them. The analysis on ZM for that match was spot-on I thought.
I don’t quite understand this consensus on this site that “Holland is better than Argentina” amongst the posters here. If this is the case, then why are Argentina the bookmakers favorites?
In what area exactly are Holland better than Argentina?
I’m not saying Argentina has performed great at this cup, however neither has Holland other than the first match against Spain. They deserved to lose against Mexico IMO. I just don’t see how Holland is anything special, they beat Mexico and beat Costa Rica on penalties. They haven’t convinced me at all.
This makes me think even more that Argentina will win. Usually in sports betting if there is a “consensus” one way, and the oddsmakers indicate the other side, the oddsmakers are usually correct.
Germany was good at 1-0 and 2-0, exploiting poor defensive structure in Brazil. The next three goals were a mental breakdown of a magnitude I have not seen on a football pitch ever.
Brazil were shocking. Their lack of shape, their lack of pressing, their lack of defensive runs.
You mention Marcelo and his overly ambitious positioning. He lost possession and were caught out of position on numerious occastions, leaving Gustavo and Dante to cover. This again led to a “autobahn” in the center of the pitch, where Germany outnumbered Brazil again and again.
Gustavo and Fernandinho did not have the beste of games (the latter in particular), but they must have felt abandonded. Marcelo sending them into trouble again and again, the front four’s lack of defensive attention and work – and a sometimes messy affair from the centre backs gave them heaps of space to cover and led them to be outnumbered time after time.
For poor Julio Cesar at the back, what happened in front of him must have felt like a horror show.
Where was the focus from Brazil?? Their pre-match stupiduty was appalling. It was like seeing teenage girls with Justin Bieber-fever, trying to show their love for their idol. Where was the self-confidence, self-assurance and focus from the 11 on the pitch to make this as a team?
And after 0-2 they just lost it, sensing that they were already having a loss that they would always be remembered for, letting their country down – in what seemingly counts the most for them.
A night to remember. Those minutes starting with 0-2 and ending with 0-5 will surely be the most sensational thing I will remember from a world cup of football.
I
I took a certain schadenfreude in watching Marcello’s humiliation- a player who has an incredibly dishonest cyncial side to him.
That’s not a good trait
I thought Brazil would play a negative midfield and pack the center of the pitch with Fernandinho, Gustavo, and Paulinho. That would allow an extra man to cover for Marcelo. The lack of CF has been shocking and Fred has been the worst striker in the competition considering his shot locations have been almost as good as Muller before this match.
Brazil attacked Germany and seemed to expect the emotional inertia to force Germany back but it is like they haven’t seen a single game played by Germany this cup.
Khedeira has played himself back into shape and looks awesome and fresh allowing Low to play perhaps the best right back in the world at his natural position.
Brazil needed speed up top to worry the high line and run in behind. I would have rather seen a false 9 with maybe William or even Hulk playing out of position.
Also, thanks for pushing back on the Luiz bashing. For all his foibles he was forcing the issue due to the score and playing risky when that was Brazil’s only hope. He can be a great player if deployed properly and would love to see him ad a libero in a back 3 or deployed as DM like Morinho liked to.
Lastly, I don’t think either Netrlands nor Argentina will have the same issues with Germany. NED has the pace up front to torture the CBs and the selection of Boateng is still confusing. ARG would never be that open and the midfielder would be more cautious when they have to close down Messi anytime he gets the ball.
Lastly I want to highlight Muller. I have no doubt barring injury that he will break Loose shiny new record. He might have one of the most consistently great first touches in world football and his off the ball movement is second to none. Every game some defender gets killed for allowing Muller to get free and sneak into an opening or pocket of space freely. I’m starting to suspect he is just too good and is always in the Right place at the right time.
The pairing of Hulk and Fred in this team is one of those worst-of-both-worlds decisions that people are giving Scolari hell for. Hulk would be awesome in a team like Holland, Argentina or Colombia where there’s superstar CAM and CFs to open up space for. Fred would be a great finisher for a team like Spain, France or Belgium who have a midfield packed with creativity who just need that one dude who converts that last pass into a goal. As it is in this Brazilian team, they are both completely ineffectual.
How will Fred go back to brazilian football after this world cup, seemingly hated by all of Brazil?
I’m in South Africa and I wouldn’t want him in any of our PSL teams. He was completely shocking.
Terrible at least at present form and playing in a Brazil that plays like that do in this WC.
Still, he do have 18 games in 39 caps for Brazil. He captains Fluminese, where he has scored 62 goals in 96 games, being the topscorer in brazilian top leage when Fluminese won the series in 2012.
So there are form, luck, tactics and circumstances. In a team playing his best sides, it would perhaps be a different story.
But a world cup to forget for him – which it will never be however – unfortunately for him.
Oh come on, you think Fred is worse than the likes of Erwin Isaacs or Norman Smith?
Who?
Well, when I saw the Brazilian team sheet, amazingly, I thought Scolari had a sensible strategy. As Bernard plays on the right wing, Hulk would play on the left to harass Lahm up and down the touchline, to not let him play and to receive the David Luiz diagonal long balls using his physical advantage. Bernard ( I’d preferred William, but ok…) was set up to stay high and test the speed of Howedes in the counter. Oscar was played central to take care of Schweinsteiger as Fernandinho and Luis Gustavo would battle Kroos and Khedira, trying to spoil midfield play and make the game scrappy.
But, and I was surprised, the strategy was not this one. Brazil’s midfield 3 just stayed high, no one pressed Schweinsteiger, no one tracked Lahm, Marcelo played higher than usual, Brasil were open and did not even tried to protect the new center-back duo, which would be an obvious pre-game issue. Really, this match strategy is the final proof that the level of understanding of the game in Brazil is very poor and those simple issues that a football fan see, are not dealt with by the Seleção’s coach.
The worst thing is that apart Tite, no brazilian coach seems any better than Scolari (there are some new ones that are smart, but they still lack experience). Muricy Ramalho was as lost as him in the “Yokohama massacre”, were Santos were thrashed by a Barcelona without showing as much as a gameplan to try to do something. And both Scolari and Ramalho are considered to be among the best managers Brazil have. Ramalho was even apointed as national manager before Mano Menezes, but he declined because of contract issues with his club at the time.
Anyone taking bets on Mourinho doing the job for 2018?
Mourinho? Is that a joke?
Of course he is a very good coach who can get the team to achieve, and he does have familiarity with many of the players (Marcelo, Luiz, Willian, Oscar, Ramires) as well as obviously the language.
But this 7-1 wasn’t just about losing one game 7-1, it was also about neutrals and the home support and indeed, the entire country and football system, losing its identity.
Many saw this as “karmic retribution” for playing “dirty, negative” football. I’m not saying it’s necessarily true but that’s one prevailing interpretation. Clearly “win at all costs” didn’t suit Brazil, and they go out not as artistic, glorious failures nor hardened winners. It’s lose-lose.
Mourinho is in popular imagination the #1 representative of “win at all costs, dirty, negative” football. Appointing him now would surely be seen as Brazil having not the slightest clue to fix things. Brazil have never that I recall even considered a foreigner (Pep was rumored but the federation said it would always go to a Brazilian), and finally signing one would only work if he was THE perfect candidate, and Mou is, stylistically and by reputation, THE WORST candidate.
No, Brazil need to appoint a young, Brazilian coach who knows a bit more about tactics and picks a bit more flair into the team. Tite is the only one I know of who even remotely fits the criteria, but I’m no expert on Brazilian coaches.
Your comment is spot on. As a Brazilian, I’d say we have no one but Tite. There are some younger coaches here, but they are not stablished enough to carry such a load as being the national manager after THAT. Cristovão Borges, of Fluminense, seems to be promising, but has only 3-4 years of working as a manager.
Marcelo Oliveira, of Cruzeiro, has build a very good team, but we cannot be sure of his merits as he has also the best squad in Série A by a long margin and his team looked way worse playing South American opposition in Libertadores.
Well, those are the names I can remember now. I’d like to see a good foreigner coaching the Seleção, as happened recently with our basketball national team, which was reborn being coached by an Argentinian.
Hi Alanlegauche, You are Brazilian?
Yes, I am
Since I do not have possibility to follow in detail what is going on in Brazilian league I have few questions for you: 1) are there any prospects whom we are not familiar in Europe (are there any prospective strikers at all? I remember times when such guys like Elber and Jardel were not selected for a team, and now Brazil has to play with Jo and Fred…) 2) what happened with Ganso
1) As far as I know, there is no outstanding youngster in the league currently. Brazil sub-21 team just won the Tournoi de Toulon with Rodrigo Caio, a Edmilson like central midfielder/ center back as the main player. Interestingly, there seems to be a good crop of young defenders, but no creative midfielders or strikers. There are some good players, like Valdivia (not the chilean one) of Internacional or Geovanio of Santos, but they do not seem to be world class material at the moment.
2) Ganso lost form awfully since he left Santos to São Paulo and only recently he did play some good matches in a row and has shown some improvement. However, he apparently did not develop to be the player that was expected. He has great touch, pass and vision, but seems to be unable to find space with his movement and lacks pace and intensity. Sometimes he seems a player from the 60’s lost in the future…
What about the guys listed here? http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1910311-10-most-exciting-young-talents-in-brazil
Well, I think the article is a bit too optimist… What I think of these players:
Mayke : He is a good attacking RB, powerful, if he develops well, we can have a new Maicon style RB.
Lucas Evangelista: I don’t rate him very highly. He plays for São Paulo (my team) and I see him often. Skillful, pacy, but often makes the wrong decision. Not Seleção material IMO.
Marlone: I did not see him enough to have an opinion.
Alex Telles: A good attacking LB. I hope he learns to defend and does not develop into a new Marcelo.
Gabriel: He can score and he is speedy and has some trickery inside the box. I rate his teamate Geovanio better than him (same age), but I think they are only good players, not partners to share the load Neymar carries. Still, sometimes they develop better than expected.
Otavio: Never saw him play.
Vinicius Araujo: Idem.
Leandro: I think he is just a speedy foward, nothing more. I don’t expect him to even be a top player in Brazilian league standarts.
Doria: Very good CB for his age. I think he will be in Russia 2018.
Marcelo: Good foward, I was not aware he was only 21. He is no Neymar, for sure, but he is pacy, skilled, not selfish as he does a lot of assists and can score. Maybe he will be our next option to the Hulk role.
As I said before, our next crop is again better in defense. We have a good prospect on new GKs, CBs and FBs. But no creative central midfielder and no really good striker.
This is a fantastic site for its analysis and especially the civility and insight in the comments section. For my two cents, this meltdown was a created by a perfect storm of the following…1. Scolari’s focus on only Brazil’s tactics and as he admitted the day before, he wasn’t concentrating on Germany’s tactics. 2. The Brazilian players were completely emotionally driven and ran around all charged up on emotion and not calming themselves and playing like professionals. 3. Germany is not given enough credit for the quality they have within the players and the coaching staff. They are not perfect, and for some reason people keep dwelling on these imperfections as they keep winning. They play with incredible passing accuracy and intelligence.
If you watch each of the goals, David Luiz is directly responsible for 3.5 of them, and Marcelo 2 (although as Michael pointed out, it was Marcelo’s area of the pitch that was largely responsible). Tactics aren’t worth much if individual players cannot complete them or the basics of defending.
David Luiz is a fine footballer, but a worthless CB when not next to another world-class CB. Is it possible that Thiago Silva is underrated, despite being considered the best defender in the world? It’s been said before but this may have been one of the clearest examples of Luiz playing like a player being controlled by a child playing FIFA.
And yet he was named captain?!??! Is there really no one else on the squad with more maturity and leadership qualities than man-child?!
Silva was more than the glue that held Brazil and the defense together. He covered for a whole host of inefficiencies with this team and finally put up against a legit contender, they crumbled. Silva would’ve helped preventing 7 goals, but in the end it was clear as a day who the real contender was. Hind-sight is 20/20.
I don’t see how you can say Luiz is a “fine footballer” if that designation is contingent on the performance of another player alongside him. Today he proved himself to be so much useless baggage that his sale to PSG for 50 million seems like the ultimate white elephant. He makes the Torres purchase look like a steal.
Since Mexico ‘86, I’ve never seen a capitulation like this. I was at the stadium to watch Germany destroy Saudi Arabia 8-0 in ‘02, but that was always going to be a mismatch. I cannot believe how many insane pundits actually believed that this match was winnable by Brazil. How could they all be so wrong? Simple.
1) Home advantage–means absolutely f*** all when your team is set up to lose badly by an inept coach (Scolari) who got the job because every other candidate was simply even worse than him.
Scolari, who inherited a patchy squad in ‘02 who barely qualified, benefitted from an incredibly easy path to the final (Costa Rica, China, Turkey x2 [who were actually very good], Belgium [who were denied a clear goal by the referee], and a very average England side, and they had to play against one of the worst German squads in the past 40 years who were missing their CAM due to suspension. Cue the big win, Big Phil is the big hero. His next high-profile job is Portugal for Euro 2004, but as some other people here have said, Phil doesn’t benefit from the experience of drawing a 10-man Greece in a pre-tourny friendly, and losing to that selfsame team in the opening match to put any game plan together for the final, in which their possession became sterilized by a superior tactician, and superior personnel.
2) Lack of talent and depth
Brazil at no point in this competition looked like they were ever going to be a great team, to the point now that the allegations of the fix being in (their 4-0 win over Cameroon–very likely to be true, IMO) and more than a few referee decisions going their way papered over the cracks. Against a superior opponent in almost every respect, they were always going to come up second-best.
3) Lack of team cohesion
Brazil always looked like they’d never met each other, every time they played. The chest-beating about Neymar only seemed like they were trying to lay a pity act on us. By the time Klose scored his goal, you could visibly see the team slump collectively, and it was game over.
Germany showed them absolutely no respect, nor did they deserve any.
Some people have asked which team suits Germany more in the final, I have to agree with the consensus and say Argentina, who have looked equally shabby en route to the semi-final, but this German line-up vs Holland or Argentina will still come away with a win.
Not enough depth on either team, and Van Gaal or not, Germany have gone from strength to strength while Argentina and Holland have looked worse, the odd individual performance aside.
Prediction: either Germany 3-0 Argentina, or Germany 3-1 Holland.
Game, set, match.
Get a load of this guy.
You mean wipe the multiple loads off Brazil’s back?
It seems to me you proved my points, and then went off on a diatribe.
1) Luiz IS a fine footballer(he has qualities I like), but my argument was that he’s not a very good CB on his own. He’s more suited to play in midfield or possibly in a back 3/5 defense (but Brazil or none of his club teams use this), OR must have an experienced world-class CB along side him. It’s called chemistry and team dynamics. If I put Gerrard/Pirlo/Schweinsteiger, etc on the backline, they’d get exposed as well. Does that mean none of them are fine footballers?
2) Home field advantage does mean something. It means getting the decisions from the ref (which you acknowledged) AND is the reason why S. Korea reached the semi’s when they hosted, the USA made it out of the group stage when they hosted in ‘94, and why so many other teams overachieve when they host.
No one was arguing this Brazil was “great”. They had flaws, just like every other team in the tournament. But they were getting the results (whether you deemed them fair or not). Hind-sight is 20/20, so it doesn’t prove understanding of the game or advanced knowledge to come on here and spout the obvious after the fact as if you knew a thrashing was coming. I personally believed Germany were a better team, but knew anything can happen and because of the home field advantage, I considered this game 50:50. NO ONE, including you, knew a 7-1 score line was coming.
” if that designation is contingent on the performance of another player alongside him. ”
Well you do realize that Luiz’s teammate will also be Silva at PSG, correct?
So even if what you are saying is true, he depends on Silva, that will be his club teammate at PSG
A players individual quality should show itself irrespective of whoever he plays with. It’s why pundits take the time after games to praise singular individuals on losing teams. Because the quality of the other players had/has no bearing on that one player’s individual performance. So yeah, if a player has a bad game, he will stick out–Luiz like him or not had an awful game, and he was not the only one. Same with that shining gem on a losing team.
Greece might have bowed out to CR because of our lousy finishing and awful coaching, but our CBs were praised up to the sky and rightly so. Losing the match couldn’t hide that. We actually overachieved in spite of our crappy coach, and if Brazil had the talent to do that, they should have shown it. In this game, they were collectively awful.
Most of the online pundits on every website was predicting a close game, generally a 1-goal differential, and a good 1/3 (if not more) actually believed that Brazil would win because they had “home advantage” and that Scolari would get his tactics correctly, regardless of how much he’s screwed the pooch in that department in other tournaments (and this one). Nonsense from the get-go. I actually predicted a comfortable 2-0 win for Germany, and the collapse of the opposition just ran up the numbers even more. Nobody predicted this complete surrender except for a few gamblers.
Did the weight (and location?) of the occasion play into the players’ minds? I’m sure it did.
Scott: playing somebody out of position is handicapping them from the get-go, and it doesn’t make them bad footballers, but it does make the coach look retarded. I singled Luiz out because of his complete lack of positional awareness, his inability to keep cool, and his lack of passion. It galls me that his market value is so high yet his football IQ is so low.
The German Blog Spielverlagerung (read their analysis in English), whom I consider to be the best tactical blog in the world, made a 300 page preview of all world cup nations. They made a special of every key player and surprise their brasilian mvp was not Neymar but Tiago Silva. They say he’s not only the best defender of the world but maybe the best defender of all times.
He is the only player who has been able to restructure the Brasilian “chaos-pressing” and his absense was the most crucial thing in the defeat.
Germany has two styles of play. Fist the 4:2:3:1 which is very offensive but lacks control in midfield (2010 they had played it) and a more defensive Bayern-Munich-esque 4:3:3 style. Against Brasil they used the more defensive approach and still absolutely wrecked them.
Germays problem is the lack of finishing. with the absence of reus they have no really strong finisher. But that doen’t matter if three to four players can get behind the defensive line.
Not sure it’s fair to say that “Müller was unmarked after Germany blocked off his marker, David Luiz.” I watched every angle of the goal several times to see how Müller got so free, and all the other Brazil defenders in the box are tight to their men as the corner comes in. Luiz was two or three yards from Müller; if he’d been closer, there would have been nothing in his way. At 3-0, Luiz doesn’t even try to get involved in defending as the fourth German goal happens.
Giving an irresponsible, unreliable, mentally fragile defender the armband in place of Silva was a decision as disastrous as Scolari’s lineup and tactics. Silva would never have conceded that first goal, and if a goal were conceded, would both raise his play and demand that his teammates raise theirs as well. Luiz was a passenger from start to finish; even his forays upfield led to further defensive problems.
Appalling. PSG are feeling cheated right now.
Watch that corner again: Klose actively blocked Luiz’ attempt to man-mark Müller. Still this shouldn’t happen to world-class defender.
When you mark your man closer though they are more able to move in behind you the moment the corner is taken. If you’ll watch the corner again most of the German players are able to move goal side of their markers the moment the corner is taken, and could have score on a header if the ball was played there.
You don’t have to do man-marking at a corner. You can do zonal marking or a combination of both.
Exactly. Zonal marking takes a lot of flak especially in the English press. This is a good example of how man marking also has its weaknesses. Pros and cons to most tactical decisions.
What really surprised me was the players Brasil felt they could do without. Ronaldinho, Kaka, Castan, Coutinho, Pato, Lucas Leiva, Lucas Moura. Nothing was obvious before the match. Both teams have been weak defensively, I think. Hindsight is useless. But the moment the first goal went in, all of Brasil’s shortcomings came into focus. You have to blame Scolari on every level: leaving very good and useful players behind, picking substandard players, not preparing his side mentally for the challenge, allowing the team to be too emotional, not understanding the limitations of the team – and not adjusting for those inadequacies.
Luiz is what he is – a player with massive highs and lows, that’s why he cannot be deemed a good central defender. His position demands consistency, otherwise he isn’t useful. CB should be the least unpredictable position, aside from GK.
I’m glad the nonsense came crashing down. Brasil were in a bad psychological place to play this game, holding Neymar’s shirt up like he was dead, they were already preparing for defeat.
Got to think that a back three of Castan, Dante and Silva, with Kaka, Moura and Leiva added to midfield would have been more effective and dependable.
Question is: Can messi beat Germany?
“picking substandard players”
To be fair to Scolari, individually few of the starting 11 last night can reasonably be called “substandard”. All of them are well-respected players at their clubs with a good-to-great track record and clearly possess skill and experience. What Scolari can (and will) be criticised for is that he might not have picked the right players who could work best as a team, or managed to get the most out of the players he did select. And as for selecting Ronaldinho or Kaka…those guys have been absolutely dismal for years now – I think that’s the voice of nostalgic fans hoping for divine intervention more than anything.
Ronaldinho has been far from dismal. He’s played some unbelievable football for Atletico for the last 2-3 years. In Kaka’s case,he enjoyed a decent season with Milan. They’re game changers and have the ability to turn any game around in a split second with a moment of magic.
Hey hey hey, hang on now. Brazilian here. Let’s go through these players you mentioned one by one:
Ronaldinho: He has shown absolutely nothing this year. Slow and immobile even for our league’s standards. He is still sublimely skilled, but that is just not enough nowadays.
Kaka: okay, I think Kaka could work as a super sub, but he is also nowhere near the level he once achieved.
Castan: No way, he used to play for my team (Corinthians) and is at best slightly above average.
Coutinho: Yes, a missed opportunity I reckon, but he has very little experience.
Pato: No way; lazy player, couldn’t even break into Corinthians’s starting eleven and was loaned to rival São Paulo.
Lucas Leiva: I wouldn’t mind him on the squad, but I can’t see how he’s an improvement over, say, Paulinho or Luiz Gustavo.
Lucas Moura: Had loads of chances, did not make the most of them.
Most of these players you mentioned, although arguably more famous than their called up counterparts, didn’t do enough for a call-up. In fact, before the tournament, there was almost no controversy regarding the selection of players, apart from the inexcusable absence of Miranda, the inexcusable calling of Henrique and maaaybe Filipe Luis being left out.
What I’m trying to say is that it really wasn’t the players’ fault; Felipão, Parreira and Murtosa are entirely to blame. We showed up to a semi final in home soil with the tactics of a middle school team. That is just wrong. It’s outrageous. I mean, how is that even possible!?
hi Vic,
I have no insight into brazilian future talent attackers…are there some promising young guys who can attack and be on the squad in 2-3 years? More Neymars or is he alone by far margin in coming years?
In Germany here I see Firmino…but not sure how he will develop
There are a few promises in Brazilian football, such as Luan from Gremio, Gabriel from Santos and Walter from Fluminense. Maybe Luciano from Corinthians, but that’s probably me being biased haha.
Abroad, there is a good crop of players coming up. Firmino, Coutinho, Marquinhos (CB from PSG, will have plenty to learn from David Luiz and Thiago Silva) and so on.
But no, there is no indication that these players are superstars in the making. More like very good, but not stellar, which is kinda worrying really.
Having said that, Brazil will actually be in a good position come 2018. Current key players such as Oscar and Neymar and David Luiz will be reaching their peak, and as I said, good players are coming up. We’ll see how it goes…
Hard to say much about a game like this, as I felt Brazil effectively gave up after 2 or 3 goals against. The analysis was spot on highlighting the Brazil LB spot for sure, and that was what struck me during the game. Gave Brazil a few threatening moments early but they were very open at the back. Another thing that struck me is that it seemed like the back four of Brazil (or two or three depending on the counter attack) often stayed very deep in relation to Gustavo and Fernandinho. It looked like a much older game in that way with so much space for the Germans to move into.
Also, the first goal is a good example of why some use zonal marking on corners. A well worked move and a man can find himself wide open.
Although I appreciate that Michael concentrates purely upon the tactical aspect of games (I am a great fan of ZM!), I feel that it is absolutely vital to point out the obvious psychological component that lead to this particular thrashing.
It is true that Germany executed their gameplan excellently, so full credit to them, they fully deserved to win. (I had bet on Brazil to lose from the start.)
However, the UNREAL scoreline is due to a complete collective blackout of all brazilian players after they went down. Not ONE brazilian player performed any where close to how they are able to for their club teams. It would be impossible to judge the ability of players like Marcelo, David Luiz, etc from their performance in this one match. These players have performed in CL finals, and other high profile matches for their clubs. Yet,for reasons to be explored, the pressure, fear (even panic) in this match was apparently more than any of them could take. they crumbled completely.
it was visible in their body language and faces, even before the scoreline had reached the fourth goal. for a while some players were playing below the standard of a professional footballer. there was nearly no defensive coordination at all. how else can you explain the 4 goals in 6 minutes in professional football?
if your players have a collective blackout in this manner (previously unseen) i argue that it would not make a difference anymore what formation they were trying to play in that moment.
in my huble opinion:
the victory was caused by the German team being considerably better and playing as a unit.
the ridiculously high result however, was due to a collective blackout of the brazilian team that lead to them not even coming close to putting on a standard average performance in the first half particularly.
(the question is why…? did the footballers feel they had to not only win the world cup, but remedy all social problems in the country? banish poverty? feed the poor? solve all political problems? save mankind….?)
For me, the mental collapse was very similar to what happened to the Brazilian team in the final of the 1998 tournament.
However, it was not only a mental collapse, but also a matter of tactics, decision making, an circumstances that happen to be perfect for the opponent. Take the Spain vs Holland match. Spain positioned themselves perfectly for counterattack via Robben. They tried to defend against him with two centre-backs who don’t have the pace they used to but haven’t realized it. It was the perfect recipe for disaster. And the more they attacked to get back in the match, the more goals they let in. Kind of the same for Brazil vs Germany.
Spain 2014=France 2002. Sticking with the same players who’ve aged past their sell-by date, and are too hardened by victories to be really competitive. Spain were actually competing with themselves, and could not possibly win.
Actually, not sure if it was Desailly in ‘02 who arrogantly told his family not to book tickets to fly over until the knock-out rounds started. Karma is a bitch.
What we’re seeing now with Germany is the perfect marriage of old school resilience and new world dynamism. Against France, Loew finally realized the error of Guardiola’s ways and dispensed with the ridiculous idea of having Lahm as the libero, when his best position has always been as an attacking LB or RB.
With Germany’s CB situation and WB situation solved, the rest of the components are all there to rout Argentina very thoroughly. This will be a a very one-sided German win, either 3-0 or possibly 4-0.
>David Luiz’s performance has received most criticism, which is natural considering he was the captain, and he completely lost his head after half-time. But in the first half he was the only Brazilian making things happen.
@ZM that is wrong
When a team concedes one goal after another, the most important job of a defender is to stop conceding. The way Luiz played made it easier to score for Germany. He is not the only one to blame. The whole team is s… But they had Champions League winners in the back four and this players don’t know how to park the bus at least until half time?
They can blame Fred as much as they want, strikers are not responsible for conceding seven goals. This team had no tactics and the players were not smart enough. Nobody can tell me, that it should have been the job of any defender to run into the final third and try to start moves like Marcelo and Luis did. That was stupid, and they should have known better. Who ever had this idea when the team is 0:2 down, is an idiot.
Many people underestimate Germany, even in Germany. None of their players has a fifty million price tag. But what’s the use of a tag when it is attached to your toe? People praise Müller or Klose, but that is not the key point.
Of course Germany might fail in the final, that can still happen. But people have to realise that football is a team sport. And you can’t succeed only with emotions, or only with tecnics, or only with strength. You need all of that: preparation, skills, mental strength. And Germany has this package. Germany went a long way since 2000 to put them selves into the position to be named favourites of a World Cup. There were, and still are, a lot of discussions and doubt, too.
But, the time is now.
sorry for nitpicking: Özil HAS a 50 mio price tag
Really, how did that come? Ah, right Arsenal.
Fair enough. I think some German players would have a high price tag, but they went abroad when they were not rated that high (or they were free agents). Or they decided to stay in the Bundesliga.
A shocking result to say the least. Poor Julio Cesar was essentially playing against two teams.
One should not take anything away from Germany, but Brazil was simply embarrassing themselves. This can be attributed to pressure, expectations etc. A freak of a result.
Overall I think this Brazil side is one of, if not the, poorest I’ve seen in my 29 years on this earth. And I don’t say that only because of this result, I felt this earlier too. Even since game one they shocked me. Confederations cup last year was okay, but this?
Who the hell is Fred? Hulk? These players are so far from the Brazilian tradition it’s crazy.
This is the first Brazil side I’ve seen with “only one” Neymar. They used to have 3-4 players with that brilliance, in different roles ofc, not just forwards. No creativity from midfield either.
The most shocking things of all is the role reversal. Go back any amount of years in football history and more often than not the roles would be reversed. Germany would be the team desperately hoping for their long balls to end up at the right spot, while Brazil would outpass them on the ground.
Spain and Barca took football into one extreme and dominated in a way few players have done in football history. Eventually age caught up with them and the opponents figured them out, outbattled them etc.
Xavi often said that when he was younger every footballer had to be 185 cm tall and be highly athletic. Barca/Spain proved that technical quality can crush physicality if done right. After that evolution many teams are trying to produce more technical players that aren’t afraid of being in possession.
What Germany has shown us a glimpse of, and what we’re probably going to see next, is “the hybrids”. Players that are athletic and technical. Teams that can play either way despite not being as small and as technical as Maradona.
In the long run, flexibility will always be a great advantage.
But this pendulum will keep swinging back and forth. Eventually another Barcelona or Spain will come along and execute their passing game so well that the hybrids won’t be able to keep up. This is a never ending cycle, I believe.
I often ask myself how good, for example, La liga would be if it was managed properly. Brazil/argentina/la liga all keep producing so much talent amidst what at least is perceived to be chaotic circumstances.
Going forward, I believe countries like Germany that supposedly have solid structures and sound economics in most of their clubs, will overtake them and begin to produce many more highly talented players, and at a higher rate, than Brazil/argentina/spain etc.
Yesterday also proved to me, once again, how international football is so far behind club football these days. Without the WC, football would probably not be the biggest sport in the world. But to be honest, champions league is the new world cup. Few national teams would be able to compete there.
Teams like Spain/Barca and Germany/Bayern have a such a huge advantage from bringing 6-7 players straight from a club XI into their own XI.
What I saw yesterday was essentially Bayern Münich completely dismantle a mix of 11 professional footballers. International football, under current circumstances, is simply not the pinnacle of football anymore.
Yes, I realize I’m going all over the place with this text, but there are so many thoughts going through my head after that result.
Perhaps it’s about time Roberto Firminho gets a chance in the Selecao.
He was one of the outstanding number tens in last years Bundesliga season, he’s young, he’s creative, he should have got the nod earlier already.
ZM:
I think there are too many Brazilian players shown on your tactical map at the beginning of the article.
I count 11, but don’t recall seeing that many out there during the game
I would add the following observations to those made by ZM.
- IMHO the biggest reason for Brazil’s utter destruction is the tactics of Big Phil. Brazil do not have an outstanding team technically (apart from Neymar & Oscar) but still made it to the semi finals due to their defensive solidity provided by their strong CBs pairing and ultra defensive midfield. That they employed brutal physical tactics to subdue their opponents’ game is another key feature. However in this game,Big Phil has opted to start a more open game, perhaps planning to score an early goal and then park the London bus. This is unlike all other teams that faced Germany before this. So this tactics played right into Germany’s hands and they received this gift with open hands by tearing Brazil apart. I already had said before that if you don’t play defensively vs this German team, you will be over-run. This is exactly what happened.
- The talk about shambolic defending is something I find amusing. All four Brazilian defenders are very experienced and capable players and are considered among the best in the world. So they cannot suddenly become poor players. The first goal was a well-worked out routine where Klose blocked Luiz from reaching Mueller. Yes Marcello was attacking more than defending but that’s is his game. The problem is that Germany has players who can pass the ball very quickly and attack at pace. Without the protection by the midfield, Marcello was exposed. And other goals were due to mistakes made by the defensive midfield who were over run.
- The German team had been plagued by injuries and their midfield has been the biggest issue since Schweni, Khedira and Lahm not completely fit. But as the tournement progressed, they have gained their full fitness and top form. Since they can pass quickly and accurately, it is hard to stop them.
- The weather was kind to Germans as they can play their usual high tempo game without suffering due to the heat as it was in the previous matches. The time of 4pm too is kinder to Europeans. And I thought the pitch was much better than the one in Maracana.
- I think Low has realised that it is better to play to Germany’s strength rather than react to opponents. This is the usual German game of quick passing, high tempo and counter attack via wings. The constant movement and switching of positions as well as the flexibility of the players are Germany’s main strengths.
I agree that Brazil was disjointed, and it only got worse after the first goal–there didn’t seem to be any positional awareness from the entire squad. And where were the CDMs to plug up the center channel? Germany had way too much space, talent, and numbers around the box.
I disagree however about the way to play against Germany–Greece played ultra defensively against them two years ago and we spent 80% of the game trying to blunt that offense without actively pressing enough en masse. Miraculously, we managed to tie the game through the quick-passing and darting runs of Salpingidis and Samaras, and speed was the thing that the German defense was unsettled by the most. Balotelli and Italy saw what we did and both attacked and defended much better, disrupted the midfield, and the result was a win.
Luiz was indeed blocked for the Muller goal, but it was footballing 101. Station a man on either post and move up to head away the oncoming ball. I blame Marcelo more for this because as the cross comes in, he’s actually IN the net instead of charging out to meet the ball. Marcelo was just as bad as Luiz in many respects. Dante was little better. None of them had any communication, and the horrendous giveaways and awful backpasses destroyed them.
Scolari, Scolari, Scolari.
Scolari is the man thatruined this game for Brazil.
How can a manager at this level make so so so so many errors?
Playing a 2 man midfield against Germany’s 3 highly energetic midfielders was suicide.
Playing Fred against a high German line instead of fielding Hulk as a striker to have some actual pace up front was also deeply stupid.
And he absolutely should have played Oscar and Willlian on the wings because those two actually track back and defend. Bernard and Hulk did no defending at all.
Should have played Ramires in a 3 man midfield, Oscar and Willian wide and Hulk as a striker.
By his own admission, Scolari chose his team and tactics based solely on his own squad and not in reaction to Germany. He took the blame after the match. It is doubtful that he didn’t consider Germany’s lineup or tactics at all, but I think their performance on the field backs up his claim that what Germany were doing wasn’t the focal point of his decisions (obvious mistake).
In the end, Marcelo and Luiz did what they do(leave holes at the back)… and without Thiago Silva in between to cover for both of them, disaster. THIS is where the manager is supposed to step in and say “Dante, you’re no Silva. Therefore, Marcelo don’t leave us exposed on the flank. Luiz, don’t leave us exposed in the center. Give us a defensive platform to allow the front four to attack.”
I see it the way you do @Happy Turtle
If anyone’s interested, there’s a detailed analysis of all seven goals in this piece here http://outsideoftheboot.com/2014/07/09/world-cup-tactical-analysis-brazil-1-7-germany-germany-run-riot-to-trounce-brazil/
great article as always, i think germany’s fifth goal really summed up the midfield battle since hummels pushed the ball forward and made his way through the brazil midfield rather comfortably to set up the goal for khedira.
on another note, it seems neymar and, more importantly, silva’s absence weakened the brazil team psychologically.
no decent team can be beaten by five goals in 30 minutes; brazil simply had no belief in themselves from the first minute.
a true tragedy for the home fans and a goal feast for the neutrals
Good analysis, ZM. This was one of those odd games where one team did everything wrong that it could.
I have the same hope you’ve stated in your last paragraph. I was wishing for a huge win for the Germans just to get the optics to force Brazilian football to reconsider its 30 year infatuation with ugly football. Never in my wildest dreams did I think it would be this lopsided! I do hope Brazilian football will change as a result of this and the likes of Scolari will be put into (comfortable) pasture.
As for the Germans, as many have said, they are not 7-1 better than Brazil, nor are they just 2-1 better than Algeria. Somewhere in between. Their weaknesses remain, primarily pace at the back, considering they prefer to play a high line. I think both Robben or Messi would really trouble them so much as to significantly dull their edge in attack
Fantastic analysis. The final paragraph is particularly on target. The Brazilian FA or whatever will be better served trying to answer those questions than worry so much about this particular outcome.
Thomas Muller pocketing arguably the best left back results in Germany trashing Brazil. Give this young forward what he deserves. Arguably the most under rated player at this WC. Hope he gets the 6th in the Final and gets a 2 times in a row goal scorer in a WC. Someday when the media hype of selfish players such as Ronaldo and Messi is over … give that guy the rewards.He is the perfect player nowadays – strong attacker with excellent composure, pressing and movement, strong winger with excellent technical skills and very good defensively, strong mid with movement, passing and vision about the game.
I’ve loved Tommy Muller ever since I saw him play in the WC2010. He is not as good as Messi, Ronaldo, and perhaps Suarez, but he is among the best in the second echelon of players (i.e. the mere world class players as opposed to the demigods of football).
A lot of Muller’s game is hard to quantify. He clearly is a major leader in Bayern and Germany, probably more so than Lahm and Neuer. He rises to the big occasions and often scores in crucial games. His movement off the ball is phenomenal, and he often creates or finds the spaces that result into dangerous moments. He helps out in defense. Technically, he is good with both feet and with his head, has a decent first touch and technique, he’s a complete player. And finally, purely in terms of numbers, he scores and assists reasonably often.
If Germany go on and win the WC, Muller will be a prime contender for the Ballon d’Or. Excellent player, Germany’s best since Ballack IMO.
Ballack? The sub from Chelsea? He was lucky to be the best before the golden generation. Khedira, Schweini, Ozil, Kroos, Lahm… all better. And of course Mueller. Today he would not qualify for in the XI.
And here you see Brazil cut off from making world class attack players. Brazil getting too rich for street football players – world football also getting to sophisticated for mere street football (same problem in Africa btw) – but still do not have a quality youth program and school for eg like Germany. It is no accident, it is not chance. It is hard work and a boatload of money into youth grooming. And into producing a ton of talented coaches.
Football is at a high time for great coaches. Players getting schooled tactically, being brighter, so the coaches can influence the game better. In Europe young folk and their coaches flocking to tactic blogs like ZM or Spielverlagerung.de and discussing the game at a quite different level. Football TV commentators have a hard time catching up.
I just feel we need to hype such players. He is very smart, strong and technically gifted, while remaining a teamplayer and is hardworking. In the modern football these are the players that make the game.
Just look at Robben and how much he evolved in the past years after receiving a reasonable criticism for being selfish player. And when you compare him to a naturally hardworking and smart football player like Muller, it is Robben that gets singled out. I honestly think it is time the media ends the Ronaldo, Messi like hype over just technically gifted players. Football is not only about how you kick the ball it is a team game. This is why I love Muller!
With hind site it seems this was the ‘perfect storm’ as far as Brazil are concerned in terms of tactics, team selection and preparedness. There are question marks as to how they got this far, but the same could be said for Argentina, Holland or even Germany. Even the best teams need an element of luck.
I would like to ask the following.
Goal 1: Corner set piece. Luiz was marking Muller, In line with near post. I watched this several times and it looks like as Muller runs round the back that Klose walks over and pushes Luiz as he tries to get to his man. Would this ’shepherding’ be practiced in training and is it legal?
But even though Germany only beat Algeria 2-1 it was obvious they were in charge of that game.
I think Brazil could have very easily been finished in the Round of 16.
All in all I feel like one could ask more questions about how Brazil got to the semis than how Germany amnd Argentina did. If I had to rank them Id day Brazil dont belong in the top tier of teams right now (those being Germany, Argentina, and maybe France) but rather with that second tier of Holland, Italy, Chile, etc. that have talent but either have obvious holes in various positions or clearly lack cohesion as a unit.
Did Luiz pay you to go easy on him, are you a Luiz fan or was it so obvious you felt it was best to skip over ?
Not a fan but I don’t think he was the worst Brazil player apart from his mental disintegration. I certainly think he is way too immature to be captain
I was more interested in the German set piece move than the individual. i.e. Is it legal to physically shepherd players in a set piece move?
Should also note:
This Brazil team had not scored a goal from open play in over 210 minutes of playing time coming into this game.
They needed penalties vs Chile and a ridiculous free kick vs Colombia to make it this far.
They also couldnt beat Mexico and really only looked good vs Croatia and Cameroon (who had nothing to play for).
Its highly possible that this Brazil team just isnt that good, especially with Thiago out, and this drubbing is nothing more than a manifestation of the gulf in class between a brilliant German team and a team that could have easily been knocked out in the Round of 16.
Needing penalties to beat an excellent Chilean team isn’t an indictment of Brazil. Colombia was a solid team as well, and the Dutch were minutes away from losing to Mexico. Brazil did well to get results against all of those squads.
Wow, that is really bad article. Focusing on Neymar is so wrong that i consider unsubscribing from this site and tweeter. The battle was won in midfield, focusing on attack is naive and childish, something I would expect in a bar but not on this site. Really disapointed. There is so many different things that went wrong wtih Brasil and no … Neymar wouldn’t save them a little bit in that game.
Focusing on Fred and his game is soooo stupid I cannot even start to explain it. Fred is a finisher we all knew that but suddenly people demand something more from him. In Germany squad for example he would shine. he is a really good classic 9 but for it to work you need to have people supplying the ball to you. Here you had a very tame midfield and Oscar who is not a proper AMC (never was!) and Neymar on wings who
This is still a very good Brazil team and shouldn’t be written off.
They Just need to make a few changes tactically and personal wise. They showed their technical ability in the second half but were a mess tactically and emotionally the whole match. Most of their players are world class and hopefully they will bounce back quickly over the next few years.
lel
whoever played this match in a Brazil shirt has to be kicked from the team forever, especially Fred, Hulk, Marcelo and Luiz.
The nest Brazil coach has to pick players from Porto and Shakhtar, who are actually technically gifted and tactically disciplined
Everyone knows Luiz is trash without Silva
ZM, how could you be so kind to Scolari? This was a tactical disasterclass!
Sure Marcelo was caught up-field, but how many times before the coach adjusts, and with Mueller always looking to get in behind him, why wasn’t that what was on Marcelo’s mind the moment he stepped onto the field?
Also, I respectfully don’t agree that Brazil didn’t have enough attacking potential to win this WC. If Lucas Moura were included in the squad, Willian was played as he should have and Hulk was striking instead of Fred/Jo then they would have had a strong attack that grew throughout the tournament as people adjusted to their new roles, instead of one that never had a chance to thrive.
Maicon for Dani Alves…really?
Scolari’s immunity from trying anything interesting was the teams Achilles’ heel from the get-go. Initially, wouldn’t a holding midfield duo of David Luiz and Ramires have been worth a look? (Is Dante the type of player that should be sitting on anyone’s bench?) He could have rotated Lucas/Willian and maybe pushed Neymar up to a false nine when he tired and Hulk was spent. Oscar was always this group’s #10.
In 2002 he could defend with 7 because he had three FIFA World Players of the Year in attack. This time around he had enough talent but needed to show some ingenuity. Instead he proved he’s only good at being the father figure and that doesn’t cut it in the modern game, even on national teams.
I always appreciate your articles, but I’m confused at what seems like a soft spot for Scolari.
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while a lot of people criticizing Brazilian’s defenders for the likes of David Luiz and Marcelo I am actually more disappointed to the defensive contribution from the front attacking four. To play in this level you need a team to stay in shape. As ZM pointed out Brazil was hugely disconnected between defense and offense. It had been obvious in the previous games (most notably in Columbia game as both sides were extremely poor in tactical sense). Maybe at hindsight I had actually seen that failure would eventually happened though not expected to be in such catastrophic way.
My point is if Luiz and Marcelo were to be blamed, the likes of Oscar and Hulk should also share a fair bit of that blame.
Felipão played with three defenders in this match. He started with Dante and David Luiz with Luiz Gustavo dropping deep to form a back three so that he could send both full backs up to join the attack all the time…
That wasn’t very clever from the coaching staff (let’s not forget Parreira and Murtosa). Throughout the world cup we’ve seen teams trying to strengthen this part of the defense that he exposed.
But that wasn’t the problem, it was also very clear that the ‘former’ back four and Luiz Gustavo were not well aware of how high up on the pitch each one of them should go and press the Germans.
And that’s not all, this change also made the team even more disjoint with Fernandinho staying all alone against Müller, Özil, Khedira and Kroos… And the wingers (Hulk and Bernard) added to that since they didn’t go back because they were instructed to wait high up to receive long balls from David Luiz.
That’s Felipão’s style of football, but not only his. Most of the “successful” coaches in Brazil would do the same. The result (1-7, lol, 1-7!!!!!!) made me sad, but it’s ridiculously deserved.
When we had a man like Telê Santana in charge we made fun of him because he had “bad luck” and couldn’t win twice… Much better now, isn’t’ it?!
Great stuff ZM
In hindsight people can say that Willian should have started ahead of Fred to exploit Germany’s high line, but what if Low reacted to that and dropped the defensive line deeper? If only the whole Costa saga had been handled better….
in brazil players are “teached” since young to play in 4-2-2-2 with a very square midfield, I think this is one of the biggest problems in brazillian football.
Brazil don’t have true wingers, much less a wide-midfielder in the sense of giggs/beckham.
usually players formed to be second strikers (frew flowing players, but not exactly playmakers) when they play wide, it almost never looks right.
plus that’s one of the main reasons why 99% of our fullbacks are like marcelo are teached to attack everytime, since otherwise the team will lack wideness but that’s what makes them at the same time so bad at defending and not staying in the right position for football at a higher level
Back in the 60s I used to hear that Brazil players needed European experience to counteract the more physical European game when world cups were played in Europe. Having witnessed the current team I can’t help but wonder if part of the problem is the exact opposite – that the style of play has been *diluted* by European exposure. Looking at a recent rerun of the 1970 final one notes everything running through Gerson who was effectively the rearmost man of the attack. There’s no Gerson equivalent these days. Brazil have become one of the pack. No longer anything special. Such a shame.
Best site on the internet to discuss tactics …
The game was a perfect storm created by the crushing pressure of hosting plus key personnel losses leading to an outrageous offensive strategy against the one team on earth best able to punish that ruthlessly.
Does anyone else think a 3 at the back with David Luiz as a midfielder would have been a better fit for their personnel?
Tiago, Dante, Miranda or Felipe Luis at the back. Luiz, Gustavo, Ramires, Hernanes or Paulinho/Fernandino as a midfield 4 with Coutinho/Lucas/Neymar or Oscar up front.
Or with 5 mid keeping Marcelo and Ramires/Dani Alves as wingbacks.
Much safer than masquerading Marcelo/Maicon/David Luiz or Dani Alves as defeneders. It also takes the ineffective strikers out of the equation .