Dortmund 1-2 Schalke: Klopp takes the blame as shift to 3-5-2 backfires

The starting line-ups
Dortmund surprisingly started in a 3-5-2 formation – despite not trying it in training beforehand – and produced a terrible performance.
Jurgen Klopp was without four regulars – Mario Gotze, Ilkay Gundogan, Marcel Schmelzer and Jakub Blaszczykowski – which was one of the reasons for his unusual formation choice.
Huub Stevens had Kyriakos Papadopoulos unavailable at the back, while Ibrahim Afellay started on the left of midfield.
Dortmund started awfully and played poor football throughout the game – the 3-5-2 didn’t last long, but was a key factor in their poor performance.
Dortmund shape
Without wishing to underplay the achievements of Schalke, who played well and deserved their victory, the real story was Klopp’s formation choice. In very basic terms you can understand why he played this way – without Blaszczykowski and Schmelzer, Klopp was robbed of half of his four regular starters in wide positions, and while he has reliable deputies in central roles, he lacks cover on the flanks. A move to 3-5-2 means that only two wide players were needed.
Sure enough, it was Kevin Grosskreutz (the regular left-winger) and Lukas Piszczek (the regular right-back) who started in the two wing-back positions. Sven Bender dropped back from midfield to play as a supplementary centre-back, while Sebastian Kehl played as the holder and Marco Reus played behind Robert Lewandowski. It could be called a number of things – you’d be justified in saying 3-3-2-1-1 if you really wanted to be specific (which is reminiscent of the ultra-defensive system North Korea played at the 2010 World Cup, incidentally), but it was basically a 3-5-2.
There were various problems with the system – Dortmund looked uncomfortable positionally and passed the ball extremely slowly, conceding possession too cheaply and exposing their centre-backs constantly. At the back, the reliable combination of Mats Hummels and Neven Subotic was split up, while Bender didn’t know how to play as the spare man. He often moved too high up the pitch towards Lewis Holtby (who, crucially, stayed in advance of Kehl and therefore had to be dealt with by the Dortmund back three) and left Hummels and Subotic as the last two defenders, far too far apart. Germany has a fine tradition of converting central midfielders into sweepers, but just as Bastian Schweinsteiger’s bizarre role against Dortmund early last year failed to work, Bender doesn’t appear suited to dropping between the centre-backs.
Wide
The real issue, however, was on the flanks. If Klopp’s logic for the change in system was that he needed fewer players out wide, it follows that Dortmund were exposed because they didn’t have enough players there. Piszczek and Grosskreutz were both exposed, and Schalke dominated the early stages by spreading the play quickly and attacking with pace. After all, they are a side with many talented players in wide positions – four decent wingers to choose from, plus a reliable pair of attacking full-backs.
The Dortmund wing-backs were rarely actually exposed to literal 2 v 1 situations (in terms of the Schalke wide players storming forward together and playing their way around a wing-back) they simply didn’t know who to pick up. Oddly, considering their usual roles, Piszczek played too high up and Grosskreutz played too deep, as Dortmund concentrated on attacking down the right.
Therefore, on the right Dortmund were exposed to the positioning of Afellay, who found a little pocket of space to himself. On the left, Gorsskreutz was pushed back by the natural wide tendencies of Jefferson Farfan, and Dortmund had no-one picking up Atsuto Uchida. Before the first goal Afellay had already looked dangerous and Uchida had already swing in a couple of crosses – but as the Japanese right-back assisted the Dutch winger for the opener, Dortmund’s weaknesses couldn’t have been clearer.
Back to 4-2-3-1
Klopp changed things after 29 minutes, moving back to the 4-2-3-1 system Dortmund are more accustomed to. This meant various changes in position – Bender moved to right-back, Piszczek to left-back, Grosskreutz forward to the left of midfield, and Perisic to the right of midfield. A couple of players were still out of position, but it seemed more logical than the 3-5-2.
Yet Dortmund were still rattled, and their passing didn’t improve – too many long balls towards Lewandowski underlined how desperate they looked. They went in only one goal down at half-time, with Schalke more conservative at 1-0 up.
Second half
Klopp made two changes early in the second half, which prompted yet more switching. Piszczek became the right-back, Grosskreutz was now at left-back, and Bender was finally in midfield. The game was now a fairly standard 4-2-3-1 v 4-2-3-1 battle.
Yet goals had already been scored – one at either end. Holtby stayed high up the pitch, and although Dortmund hadn’t exactly been solid with 3 v 2 and Bender wandering out of defence, they now had one fewer player goalside. Holtby got plenty of space in behind the midfield, while Klaas-Jan Huntelaar dropped deep to draw the Dortmund centre-backs out of position. The second Schalke goal was a superb counter-attack through the centre of the pitch, finished by holding midfielder Marco Hoger – the Dortmund centre-backs stuck to their men, opening up a huge space for Hoger to sprint into, and finish coolly.
Latter stages
Lewandowski got a goal back from a set-piece to make it 1-2, but Dortmund never rallied. Hoger and Roman Neustadter remained together protecting the defence, and Schalke were brave in leaving their wingers high up as an attacking option, keeping Dortmund’s full-backs in place, while Reus and substitute Leonardo Bittencourt didn’t have the natural width to create opportunities through crossing.
Schalke slowed the tempo cleverly in the second half, partly through some rather obvious timewasting that frustrated Klopp and co. Stevens’ players looked delighted at the final whistle – but perhaps they were simply surprised at how easy Dortmund made it.
Conclusion
Bundesliga.com: “Did you practice playing with a back three in training?”
Lukas Piszczek: “No.”
Bndesliga.com: “So Dortmund were trying out this variation for the first time against Schalke?”
Lukas Piszczek: “That’s right.”
It’s amazing, but it’s true. “We did not play well. I take this like my fault. I wanted to help with the upgrade of the team,” Klopp told Sky Sports Germany. “That honestly did not work so good.”
“It was nothing to do with the formation, we simply played badly,” protested Reus. Which is an understandable reaction – footballers rarely blame results upon the tactical decisions of their coach, for obvious reasons. Yet the formation was precisely why Schalke were able to thrive down the flanks in the opening stages, and the constant switches were surely why Dortmund looked uncomfortable even in their more familiar 4-2-3-1. Grosskreutz and Piszczek both had to play at least three positions over the course of the 90 minutes.
Klopp has been a huge reason for Dortmund’s success over the past two seasons, but he rightly accepted the blame for this defeat. Dortmund are now 12 points behind Bayern after eight games, and now face a difficult task to retain their title.





“Lars Bender dropped back from midfield to play as a supplementary centre-back,…”
If they haven’t secretly swapped twins with Leverkusen, then it was Sven Bender, not Lars.
Good write up. I really enjoyed watching the match as well. It will be interesting to see how champions league goes for both of those teams this week.
“If they haven’t secretly swapped twins with Leverkusen”
Maybe they do that all the time…
Shows the danger of jumping into the 3-at-the-back fad. When you’re playing against the 4-3-1-2 in Serie A then it makes perfect sense, less ago against a team with more than 2 total wide players. While I think it’s worthwhile for coaches to be flexible, I think you need to be careful not to leave your best formation simply because you’ve lost two starters. The system BVB started with had 3 players who would be comfortable in the band of 3 in a 4-2-3-1, and they had a natural (if unproven and young) left back on the bench. In addition, Lewandowski is comfortable behind the striker as well, play him behind Schieber, Reus and Perisic wide, Grosskreutz at left back, and then you keep Kehl and Bender in the middle, and Piszczek at right back…
While I agree with your point, the 3 at the back Dortmund played was different than the ones Napoli, Fiorentina or even Man City play. This was more like 2 at the back and Bender as Libero. If only he could’ve understood the role better. Every system has pros and cons. I attribute Dortmund’s loss to their lack of practise rather than the switch
Lewandowski is not that comfortable behind the striker. In fact, he hates playing that role, even though he’s quite good at it and always want to be striker. What’s more, I don’t think Schieber is a player of Borussia calibre and surely nowhere near Lewandowski’s class. That being said, I believe there’s no point to hide world class player who is the best of all strikers Klopp possess behind a player of much lower striking quality.
Schieber is better than his reputation his reputation. He had a great season, when he was loaned out to Nürnberg two season ago where he showed some beautiful attacking combinations with Gündogan and Ekici. Last season wasn´t great for him, because he was injured for the complete first half of the season and after that he spent the remainder of the season as a substitute, which of course meant that he had no chance to regain his form of the previous season. He just needs to get used to Dortmunds style of play and then he needs a few games to get up to form and then you´ll see what he is capable off. If you don´t believe me you should at least remember Lewandowski´s first season with Dortmund, where he wasted one big goal scoring opportunity after another.
Oh and btw. Dortmund lost four starters and not just two. Dortmund´s best XI includes Mario Gotze, Ilkay Gundogan, Marcel Schmelzer and Jakub Blaszczykowski.
this article covers all important aspects of the game, very good. its sven bender not lars bender btw
. lars bender is his twin and he plays for leverkusen.
After playing with a Libero/Sweeper longer than most of the other big football nations, it is baffling to see German teams struggle so much plaing three at the back.
(Remember: as late as the 2002 World Cup Germany played mostly three at the back with Sebastian Kehl starting the quarterfinal against the USA at sweeper)
Very good piece.
I really enjoyed this game at the weekend, but you certainly have to ask a lot of questions of Klopp!
Dortmund failed to adapt to the change in shape and after conceding an early goal they lacked any fluidity in attack as they madly tried to bring on players and change to a more familiar formation.
Schalke thoroughly deserved the victory. Dortmund were too slow with the ball and looked short of creativity through the middle of the pitch. Schalke were well organised, a threat on the counter, and Afellay’s positioning caused all sorts of problems for Dortmund in defence where he tempted one of Kehl or Subotic to mark him as a result of Piszczek’s positioning – meaning spaces appeared elsewhere for the likes of Holtby to move into and exploit.
http://tttfootball.wordpress.com/2012/10/21/borussia-dortmund-1-schalke-2-20th-october-2012/
yea i agree, dortmunds attacking play was lacking creativity and fluidity. gündogan was well missed this game and its not the first time that they lose control of the midfield without him. i remember a game when dortmund was leading 1:0 and had full control until he got substituted for kehl and they completly lost control and conceded the draw. i really hope he is available for the real madrid game cause they look a completly different side with him in the team.
Haven’t seen the game but Dortmunds president said they wanted to play 3-5-2 in order to put pressure on Schalke and press higher up the pitch.
YES! I was so hoping ZM would cover this match!
Btw. I haven´t seen a lot of live matches of Dortmund this season, but in the ones I did it often looked like Dortmund were in a 3-5-2 formation when they had possesion of the ball, with Sebastian Kehl dropping back to provide extra cover at the back and Piszczek and Schmelzer getting into very advanced positions, so maybe this formation was the natural next step, although it was partly forced by the incredible amount of injuries (and btw. Dortmund lost 4 starters and not just 2). But nevertheless I have to admit that Dortmund looked vulnerable all season especially against teams that are strong on the break and have good wingers (look at the game against Eintracht Frankfurt as an example of this). So it was especially strange to see this formation against Schalke, who have some of the strongest winger in the league plus some of the best offensive wingbacks and are very on the break.
None the less I also blame this defeat on a subpar performance of many of the players. I can´t remember the last time I have seen such slow and sloppy passing from Dortmund, unusual formation or not. Also having 4 starting players miss the match due to injury did not help.
Furthermore I like Klopp a lot and even more so after this game, because he showed a willingness to experiment and accept the blame when it backfires.
And finally regarding the “12 points behind Bayern”, Dortmund never claimed aspirations to defend their title this season, and yes I know they also didn´t last season when they actually defended the title, but I you compare Dortmund´s net transfer spending of the last 2 years with that of Bayern then it becomes clear that they are only being realistic. I remember a radio interview with Jürgen Klopp after I think it was the third game of the season, where he was asked if there was already something remarkable about this season that will probably be still remembered in ten years and his answer was “Well, a holding midfielder was bought for 40 million! I sure hope we will still be astonished at that amount in 10 years time!”, which pretty much sums up what Dortmund are competing with, when we talk about Bayern.
I am shocked by reading this. Because yesterday night i decided to try the 343 with dortmund on fifa 13. just tinkering with tactic simulations. mind you, i never even knew dortmund tried this or even played this game irl.
i went with a back 3 of Schmelzer, Subotic, Hummels. mid 4 of Lowe, Gotze, Khel, Pisczek. front 3 of Lewandowski, Reus, Kuba.
after much frustration and being destroyed by manchester city. i QUICKLY found. this tactic does not work with dortmund. khel is too slow, subotic as well, lowe wasn’t good enough and their tempo doesn’t fit well in the tactic. dortmund doesn’t press in a uniform fashion, they swarm (irl), so it broke the defensive structure of the system as i played as their AI wouldn’t mesh with the formation.
i did use a 343 not 352 but they are relatively the same in defending. their only difference is through attacking width. not relying purely on wingbacks.
(con)
(con) khel was stale and due to the AI’s tempo, guys would be out of place and because of khel lack of technical skill, i ended up giving away possession cheaply.
and because of the tactic, the back 3 pushed high up. the tactic is supposed to apply pressure high up the pitch so the offside trap is played. hummels and schmelzer played fine, as well as pisczcek (a natural wingback). however subotic lack of pace meant through balls often got him in trouble. and lacking a natural LWB, meant my left flank was exposed. so i conceded easily, often directly through the middle where subotic was.
i could never get a real attack going and any flashes of it came through pisczcek.
anyways, it was surprising to read this as i, myself, ran into the same exact struggles in simulation as they did IRL. dortmund just doesn’t have the right players for it IMO.
Not that FIFA 13 is necessarily proof of anything, but why not use Santana (an actual CB) in your back 3 and Schmelzer instead of Lowe? Also Leitner (or even Gundogan) in for Kehl solves your speed problem in midfield.
Interesting how a 3-5-2 is for “high pressure” against Schalke, but would be “suicide” to play Real Madrid (knowing Schalke has fast wings and Afellay). Play with line of 4 defenders, and Piszczek as a winger, Marcelo isn’t here so would a great choice I believe. So there’s 2 to control CR, then always pressure Alonso and Khedira. Live Özil alone. Piece of cake. Haha.
This article is awarded a 2 thumbs up from me.
Only wanna comment on few general things, The website style is perfect, the written content is very wonderful. “To imagine is everything, to know is nothing at all.” by Anatole France.
It seems like whenever a German team experiments with three at the back, they get quickly punished for it. Dortmund last weekend and Germany against the Ukraine about a year ago.
What will be the consequence? After two “failed” experiments, the German national team or German clubs might be very reluctant to switch from their preferred 4-2-3-1 formation, so high quality teams (=> Spain, Italy) will continue to exploit the tactical inflexibility (remember the semifinal last year in the Euro? The German defense had no clue how to deal with the two Italian strikers).
As a silent reader for a long time, this is my first comment here on ZM hoping I am not too incorrect with my observations.
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