Barcelona 2-2 Real Madrid: two goals each for Ronaldo and Messi

The starting line-ups
Both sides appeared content with a point from an entertaining match.
Tito Vilanova surprisingly named Adriano at centre-back rather than Alex Song, in the absence of Gerard Pique and Carles Puyol. Andres Iniesta returned to the side in place of Alexis Sanchez.
Jose Mourinho went for a familiar side – with no Luka Modric or Michael Essien, it was essentially the Real of last season, with Mesut Ozil as the number ten.
It was the usual pattern – Barca dominating possession, Real a threat from quicker attacks and set-pieces.
Formations
This was a simpler tactical battle than recent Clasicos. There was no hint of Barcelona playing three at the back, as they did frequently under Guardiola in these matches, despite injury problems at the back. It was a clear back four, with Busquets staying in midfield rather than dropping between the centre-backs.
There was a modification to Barca’s 4-3-3 on the left, however. Against Benfica in midweek that was the zone they looked to play in, but with Iniesta rather than Sanchez they played in a different fashion. Iniesta played in an odd role – either a deep and central left-winger, or a high and wide central midfielder. He concentrated on dragging Alvaro Arbeloa out of position. Cesc Fabregas played a free, varied attacking midfield role – trying to find space between the lines and breaking forward into attack.
Real were a simple 4-2-3-1, and while they’ve often looked more like 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1 without the ball in this fixture under Mourinho, tonight they made more of an effort to retain their shape. Cristiano Ronaldo and Mesut Ozil stayed high up the pitch while Angel Di Maria was dragged deeper, but obvious battles were apparent across the pitch in an open encounter, with both sides having a spare man at the back. Xabi Alonso moved higher up the pitch than usual, trying to press Xavi Hernandez – although the Barcelona captain remained in a deep position close to Sergio Busquets, so Alonso gradually stood off.
Barcelona approach
The game was not so much about the midfield battle, which Barcelona were always likely to dominate by virtue of having extra numbers, but about what the teams were attempting in the final third. Barcelona’s initial attacking threat was minimal – despite plenty of the ball they failed to offer penetration, partly because of the lack of forward running. Lionel Messi came towards the ball, often tracked by Sergio Ramos, but Pedro Rodriguez was the only man making runs in behind the defence – Fabregas was bursting from a deeper, more obvious position, while Iniesta drifted infield rather than towards goal. Barcelona played in front of Real, which meant the away side were happy to keep a high line and remain compact.
Iniesta’s unusual positioning was a key factor in Barcelona’s moves. Alvaro Arbeloa tried to stick very tight to him – often tracking him well into central midfield zones – which meant space opened up for Jordi Alba to break into. As against Benfica, he was more attacking than Barcelona’s right-back (Martin Montoya replaced Daniel Alves because of injury midway through the first half) and overlapped well. It felt as if Barcelona could have made more of Arbeloa’s aggressive positioning if Fabregas had moved more towards that side, but he remained central.
Pedro was high up on the right, offering width and tricky wing play. With Messi quiet in the opening minutes, Pedro seemed the major threat, although it took involvement from Iniesta for him to contribute to a goal. Iniesta drifted across to the right to take up a similar position to the ones he was taking up on the left – this dragged Marcelo narrow and opened up space for Pedro to cross.
Real Madrid approach
Real carried out their gameplan more effectively than Barcelona in the first half. First, there was the shape without the ball – which was positive and high up the pitch. As the game went on it became more scrappy, but in the opening minutes Real won the ball cleanly and launched quick attacks. Alonso hit a couple of diagonals into wide positions, and the role of Mesut Ozil was important – although his contribution on the ball in the first half was minimal, his movement into wide zones helped overload Barcelona in the full-back positions, and Real could get crosses into the box.
Ozil’s positioning on the right played a part in Real’s opener, when they worked the ball across the pitch for Ronaldo to score. Interestingly, it was the third time Real had looked threatening in the zone outside Alves – first Marcelo moved there untracked but didn’t receive a pass, then Karim Benzema had drifted to the back post for a cross he didn’t connect with cleanly. Barcelona were less vulnerable in that zone once Montoya replaced Alves.
Benzema’s finishing was poor, but his hold-up play was impressive and he helped encourage his teammates up the pitch – although Real often played directly, they also got numbers into the final third and put pressure on Barcelona. Set-pieces were an obvious danger for the home side, whose average height was even smaller than usual – Ramos headed wide from one corner.
Second half
There was little progression in the tactical battle in the second half. Messi was more involved, and Fabregas seemed to stay wider to the left, trying to take advantage of the space in behind Arbeloa. The first tactical change was Vilanova removing Fabregas and introducing Sanchez, who mastered the out-to-in run from the left on Tuesday night, although wasn’t involved much here.
Ozil became more of a presence in the second half, drifting wide, prompting counter-attacks and also assisting Ronaldo’s goal. The German’s influence upon games at the Nou Camp is often questioned, but that’s two consecutive Liga fixtures at this stadium where he’s assisted a Ronaldo goal, and his overall contribution was good.
Barcelona had a lot of the ball in the final 20 minutes but didn’t create significant clear-cut chances when Real had men behind the ball. Their most presentable chance was when Pedro broke quickly down the right in behind the defence, and they went closest when Montoya hit the bar from long range.
The significant Real changes were like-for-like – Gonzalo Higuain for Benzema, Kaka for Ozil. Vilanova didn’t elect to use his third substitution, while Mourinho used Michael Essien for Angel Di Maria in the 88th minute, seemingly pushing Kaka right and going for a 4-5-1 system. He was happy with a point.
Conclusion
Not an overly tactical match – both sides played their usual system, with a minor caveat on the left side of Barcelona’s attack (although that was fairly standard in big games under Guardiola when he used Iniesta wide in the front three). Couple that with the lack of significant tactical shifts or substitutions, and this was basically two sides playing their own game rather than thinking about the opposition.
The game was played a decent standard, yet there were only five shots on target – and four goals. This fixture is often cast as Messi versus Ronaldo, ignoring their talented teammates and the overall tactical contest, but if there has ever been a Clasico that was primarily about the goalscoring of those two players, this was it.





Great Analysis! Barcelona seem to be a little quicker to watch this year. It’s much more entertaining.
SPOTP
I don’t know, I think their transition from defence to attack down the field. the speed at which they advance the ball toward the opponent’s box was very slow apart for 1 or 2 long ball attempts.
One thing I’ve noticed over the last few weeks was the amount of longer passes to space. Vilanova is a tactically aware man, but he needs to bring his own flavour to the system he inherited from Pep. Think how Steve Bould has made Arsenal’s back four more compact and deep, he must add his own tweaks, and I think the left idea is something he’ll use, but it could get very worn, very quickly. I don’t think he has a strong replacement for Puyol, and Song/Javier are just not good enough to fill that big role. Perhaps he needs ‘his player’ a la Pique and Pep, to bring the next generation of player through. Barta?
What do you think about Barca’s over reliance on Messi and the false nine role in attack. Messi made an amazing run from the RW in the second halfand IMO he could play there in games where the defense is really compact in the middle. I also think Villa should have played in this game. He seems to be the only Barca player that wants to score more than Messi
The 3 previous games were wins without any Messi goals. So I don’t think the team is as dependent on him to score as last year. Sure, he provided most of the assists for those 3 games, but when you have a player like Messi on the field, he’s most likely going to have some sort of major impact on the offense.
I don’t think the false 9 tactic is working anymore,Messis all round game is suffering from it and he is no longer getting many chances to score.If Barca want to keep playing Messi in this position then they need to go back to basics and play Villa and Pedro as inside forwards.They need to stop trying to put circles in square holes,I am talking about their insistence on playing Cesc Fabregas and Iniesta in the same team.Only one should be picked to play in midfield and there is only 1 answer to who it should be.
You see when they were playing with 2 wide players in Villa and Pedro teams couldn’t just concentrate on crowding Messi like they do now because of the threat both Villa and Pedro possessed in behind the defense.
Also as seen this season against Osasuna playing 4 – 2 – 3 – 1 with Messi behind Sanchez works as well,as Messi gets more space to play.
And please just buy a fucking CB,Adriano played well yesterday but seeing Real Madrid players lining up at against Barca at corners was just ridiculous,it doesn’t matter how well organized you are you need at least 3 players who are dominant in the air.
Oh god, not this guy again….
yeah, false 9 isn’t working any more… oh wait, Barca scored against Porto after Messi dropped back from the central striker position and fed Fabreagas moroting into that vacated space so earlier in the same, they scored a classic false-9 goal.
“please just buy a CB”
So Adriano played well yesterday, their top 2 CBs are out with injuries, and Madrid failed to convert their supposed height-based dominance at corners into a win.
What’s ridiculous is your comment.
With all due respect, Sergio Ramos easily beat the defence to head off a corner, he just missed by about 6 inches….. Frankly, the defence didn’t fair well, but they were lucky that his missed a potentially easy goal.
I don’t think the false 9 tactic is working anymore,Messis all round game is suffering from it and he is no longer getting many chances to score.If Barca want to keep playing Messi in this position then they need to go back to basics and play Villa and Pedro as inside forwards.They need to stop trying to put circles in square holes,I am talking about their insistence on playing Cesc Fabregas and Iniesta in the same team.Only one should be picked to play in midfield and there is only 1 answer to who it should be.
You see when they were playing with 2 wide players in Villa and Pedro teams couldn’t just concentrate on crowding Messi like they do now because of the threat both Villa and Pedro possessed in behind the defense.
Also as seen this season against Osasuna playing 4 – 2 – 3 – 1 with Messi behind Sanchez works as well,as Messi gets more space to play.
And please just buy a fucking CB,Adriano played well yesterday but seeing Real Madrid players lining up at against Barca at corners was just ridiculous,it doesn’t matter how well organized you are you need at least 3 players who are dominant in the air to defend them confidently.
Lawrence shut up.
Josef if you think Adriano is good enough to play CB in the long run you are insane,likewise if you don’t think Barca need a new CB you are insane.You are literally the only person I have heard saying they don’t need a back up CB,a proper CB.Pique and Puyol are injured way too much nowadays to be relied upon all season.
And the false 9 has clearly been figured out,on Sunday Messi only had 1 chance all game and that was only because Pepe made a stupid mistake,otherwise it is clear Jose has figured out how to handle Messi.He weren’t a goalscoring threat all game.If Tito wants the false 9 to work,especially against teams like Madrid then it is IMPERATIVE that he plays two inside forwards to relieve pressure of Messi and stop him been crowed out of the game.Currently there is not enough of a threat to threaten behind Madrid defense,hence why Madrid can now play a high line and Pepe and Ramos can both concentrate on Messi knowing that they are 90% safe to a ball in behind them.
More gold. You are a tactical genius. Why do we read ZM when we could read your stuff?
In hindsight I apologize for my sarcasm. You are entitled to your views and opinions, of course. Could you please be more polite and not break the no-swearing rule of this site, because your aggressive approach to argument is somewhat disrespectful. Thank you.
I didn’t say Adriano was an ideal CB. I thought that was the point of them getting Song, actually: to have him serve as CB cover. I just thought he did well as backup. Abidal is targeting a December return, Pique was injured on 9/19 or so and only projected to be out for 2-3 weeks. Plus they have Fontas and Bartra on the bench – I thought Barca was supposed to be the team of homegrown players, so your knee-jerk reaction of “WE MUST BUY SOMEONE!!1!1!!111!” struck me as sad, to put it nicely.
As for the false 9, since the beginning of September Messi has 6 goals (1 penalty, 1 free kick) and 5 assists for Barca. Villa’s scored 3 goals in less than 200 minutes of play. Pedro’s been back and in good form on the wing, and in Villa’s absence Sanchez is precisely that “inside forward” you demand must play on the wing. Meanwhile, if Pepe and Ramos are sticking to Messi because they feel safe from the possibility of runs in behind, what that means is *not* that the false 9 tactic has failed, but that Iniesta and Fabregas need to be making more incisive runs into the space that Messi vacates.
“Messi only had 1 chance all game”
And yet I’m pretty sure he scored 2 goals. I know he’s the best and all but scoring twice from one chance is a whole ‘nother level.
To solve all their problems in the short term, I think Barca ought to move that asshole Busquets back to CB, where he’s played well before, next to Mascherano. That leaves space for Xavi, Iniesta, *and* Fabregas in the midfield 3, which then allows for a wide forward (Villa or Sanchez) to play on the left opposite Pedro.
That gives Messi 5 willing runners (the wide forwards and all three midfielders) to invade the space he vacates when dropping deep as a false 9.
Lawrence I have never heard of this rule about no swearing before.Did you just make that up?
Josef stop trying to be a smart arse,Messis 2nd goal was a set piece,I don’t consider it a chance when talking about tactics.I have already proved that the false 9 system isn’t working against the best teams by highlighting how few chances Messi gets anymore.
Busquets is simply to slow to play at CB to play against the best teams,Barca should have bought a proper CB instead of Song.They have cover at DM with Masch and Thiago who can play there as well,also Busquets is hardly ever injured and he plays 50+ games a season.I have seen Song play CB before and his positioning isn’t good enough,same problem as Masch has agaisnt the best teams.
They didn’t need to spend loads either,they could have bought Vertagon or whatever he’s called(the one who Spurs bought) for less.
The funniest part of your post was when you suggested they should play a midfield of Xavi,Fabregas and Iniesta hahahahahaha yes lets move the best DM in the world out of position so they can play Cesc Fabregas lol Simple solution is to buy a back up CB who will eventually replace Puyol permanently and go back to 4 – 3 – 3 with 2 inside forwards.There is no reason why the greatest Spanish striker in history should be benched for Cesc.Cesc should be a sub and only play when Iniesta is injured.Cesc is good but no good enough to persist with him destroying the balance of the team.
O ye Fontas and Bartra aren’t good enough to play for this team,Abidal had a liver transplant and is unlikely to be the same again.Sometimes you have to buy.
Lawrence I have never heard of this rule about no swearing before.Did you just make that up?
Josef stop trying to be a smart arse,Messis 2nd goal was a set piece,I don’t consider it a chance when talking about tactics.I have already proved that the false 9 system isn’t working against the best teams by highlighting how few chances Messi gets anymore.
Busquets is simply to slow to play at CB to play against the best teams,Barca should have bought a proper CB instead of Song.They have cover at DM with Masch and Thiago who can play there as well,also Busquets is hardly ever injured and he plays 50+ games a season.I have seen Song play CB before and his positioning isn’t good enough,same problem as Masch has agaisnt the best teams.
They didn’t need to spend loads either,they could have bought Vertagon or whatever he’s called(the one who Spurs bought) for less.
The funniest part of your post was when you suggested they should play a midfield of Xavi,Fabregas and Iniesta hahahahahaha yes lets move the best DM in the world out of position so they can play Cesc Fabregas lol Simple solution is to buy a back up CB who will eventually replace Puyol permanently and go back to 4 – 3 – 3 with 2 inside forwards.There is no reason why the greatest Spanish striker in history should be benched for Cesc.Cesc should be a sub and only play when Iniesta is injured.Cesc is good but no good enough to persist with him destroying the balance of the team.
O ye Fontas and Bartra aren’t good enough to play for this team,Abidal had a liver transplant and is unlikely to be the same again.Sometimes you have to buy.
Interesting. The second Madrid goal was pretty similar to Pato’s opener in the 2011 CL group stage against Milan. Two non-natural CB’s placed together, dragged up too high on the pitch (midfielder mentality) rather than containing, resulting in an relatively easy breakthrough from Ronaldo.
This is too frustrating for me, as a Barca fan. The team needs reliable backup CB’s ASAP. We are maybe the only world class team without a second pair of defenders….
The only world class team without a defence at all.
It’s down to injury… I mean for the majority of the game Barca were playing without any of their top choice 4- Alves, Pique, Puyol, and even Abidal. OK maybe Abidal doesn’t quite count due to special circumstances but losing the majority of your defenders to injury while playing Real Madrid, it’s no surprise at all.
I wonder, do you think that Vilanova’s simpler tactical style and slightly more direct approach has been a positive or negative for Barcelona, who looked a little stale last spring? And I would be curious to hear your thoughts on the need for a central defender at the Nou Camp. Good writing again, Zonal Marking.
For now, it’s effective. But we will see how this approach will turn out in the future.
No, it’s not effective. It is damaging, but thank god, Barcelona are able to score back after they lose a goal because of CB mistakes.
Alves taking a nap, combined with Valdes being beaten at the near post, was responsible for the first goal, not the CBs…
The second? Well considering Adriano is not a CB and I’m suspecting not actually a defender at all, he did pretty well combined with another converted CB in Masch.
What would you have preferred…Alves sticks to Ronaldo like glue and let Benzema a free run on goal?
The poor guy had no choice.
Mascherano created the danger by diving in like Hummells at the Euros against Italy.
A smarter defender would just have stayed goal-side of Benzema and there wouldn’t have been half the danger as Alves could then focus on picking Ronaldo.
Yeah, you can see all the damage it’s done this year – 8 wins and a draw? What a horrible coach, they better get him out of there ASAP.
What planet do you live on, anyway.
He is lacking something the Pep has in the team however, despite the record, a lot of those wins were come from behind victories and in many of those games Barca looked far from their best, and they really struggled to win the game (not in terms of possession but in terms of the close scorelin).
Lat year when Barca won, they were usually winning games 4-0, 4-1, 5-1.. Where are those scorelines?????
@ Anonymous on October 9, 2012 at 2:21 pm
This comment is so pathetic I can’t even describe its pathetic-ness properly.
“oh, we’re winning, but not by resounding-enough scorelines. Tito Out!”
Do you really think that is how the game should be? That each match ought to be a stroll in the park for the team most willing to spend wads of cash on player purchases and salaries? Competitive balance is already La Liga’s weakness, exacerbated by their evil TV deal that screws every club except Real and Barca, and your concern is instead that Barca doesn’t win enough blowouts.
I’m comfortable concluding that I do not like you on the basis of this woeful comment.
Now imagine Madrid without Pepe and Ramos… Or Riijkard’s Barça playing with Van Bronckhorst and Motta as a CB’s… I admire a lot the versatily of FCB players. Great game to watch, I enjoyed a lot.
Considering Adriano is a very attacking full-back, it’d be like Madrid playing Marcelo as a centre-back… that would not go well. Barca only have their selves to blame though!
or like playing sergio ramos as a cb? oops…
Ramos’ favoured position is centre back. It’s nothing like that at all
Michael, Don’t you think Villanova is trying to make a 4-6-0 formation perfect, where Messi begins his run with the ball from a deep zone? I observe this made life difficult for Fabregas tonight who shares almost the same zone as false-9. Also Cesc was accompanied by another man (Mostly Iniesta) when trying to enter to Madrid’s attacking 3rd as a forward runner.
I think Barcelona need to rethink the “false nine” tactic in these games. Real Madrid are perfectly content to have Messi drop deep, as their holding midfielders and centerbacks have a very good understanding of his largest threat in that role — passing diagonal balls to the wings…albeit only to Pedro. A more effective strategy would be to do what Guardiola did in the December contest last season: put a true No. 9 in front of him (Sanchez or even Villa) and occupy the centerbacks so Messi has more space and options.
Also how highly do people rate Pepe? I think he is the joint 2nd best CB in the world nowadays alongside Chiellini and behind Thiago Silva.If it weren’t for his occasional brainfarts like yesterday he could be the best.His positioning, physicality and technique is top class.I think if he concentrated more on the game and less on kicking people he could cut those silly mistakes out.
Puyol is the best CB in my opinion Barcelonas record when hes in the team is something crazy like 1 defeat in 70.
Bonnuci and Pepe have made a huge progress the last year. I have not watched Silva this year, but I will generally agree – Pepe is a beast of CB – def top 3.
I’m not sure I agree with you on that one. Chiellini I would never call a ‘world class’ defender. Very good, certainly, but, to me, he is overly brutal and lacks the well rounded game and composure of Silva. Pepe is similar. Don’t get me wrong, great players, but I would rate Silva and Ramos above them.
No way bro,watch my video on metacafe.It’s called Chiellini vs Chelsea,look how good he is on the ball and his anticipation, strength off it.
Like I said, he’s very good. Strong, athletic, just don’t think he will be remembered as one of the great centre-backs in 20 years. But I could be proven wrong.
When will be the match that Xabi Alonso is finally sent off?
Or Arbeloa…
That’s the work Mourinho has been doing since he arrived in Spain. Complaining about referees from day one and preparing exactly this what we’ve seen the last clasicos: kicking festival without any punishment. Madrid players now know they have a licence to kick, that the first yellow won’t come in the first half, and that the second will never come, so they don’t hold back anymore. They call it “mind games”…
o really…wish d saint messiah cud also ve been sent off for whining and pleading the ref for a card…
and we wish you could bother to spell, but if wishes were fishes there’d be no room in the ocean.
The plural of fish still is fish. But I guess you wish it was fishes
That’s an old proverb adapted from a Scottish nursery rhyme. The original was something like “if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.” Some ungrammatical punster must have thought the rhyme of “fishes” was more crucial than correct pluralization. Modern adaptations with “if wishes were fishes…” include:
“…then beggars would eat”
“…then we’d all have nets”
and the most common versions: “…there’d be no room in the ocean” or “…the seas would be full”
Madrid got scared. Barcelona had no central defenders going into this match, and I was surprised they didn’t press the backline a little bit more like they did in last December’s Clasico. I thought Montoya did a much better job than Alves and Alba was pushing higher up in the second half. Overall, a draw can be seen as a good result for either team. RM was better until min. 30ish, then FCB took control and could have won.
Over a year and still nobody managed to find Fabregas a proper place on the pitch. They have abandonned the idea of putting him as a striker. A “free role” is confusing rather his team than the opponents. Don’t be fooled by his two goals against Benfica. This is a constant problem that still seeks for a solution.
Huge concern. Immense talent, but in a spot (CAM) that currently doesn’t exist on the team because it belongs to Lionel Messi. He’s a liability with his positioning, long passing, and overall inability to exert control over a match. Barca need to pray that Thiago isn’t going to spend the rest of his career injury-prone and that Iniesta can take on greater responsibilities with the impending retirement/decline of Xavi.
Thiago simply will never be good enough. There will never be another Xavi, and y’know, Fabregas may just have to replace him, playing deeper. Closest I can think of is Veratti at PSG.
Why do you think Thiago will never be good enough? How often have you actually seen him play? Sure, he wasn’t good in the match we got injured, but he was great in the one before that. I think he is Spain’s biggest talent, and if he can remain fit, he will be a fixed starter by the end of the season. You shouldn’t compare him to Xavi, as he is Spain’s greatest player ever and the best CM of all time in my opinion. But Thiago is already great, and will improve.
Busquets was the best player on the pitch. Messi and Ronaldo will get the plaudits, but Busquets kept Barcelona in the game for the first half hour.
Agree completely, Busquets positioning defensively is world class.
He was lucky to escape a red card when he pushed a Madrid player with two hands down to the ground after already receiving a yellow card.
I agree he was good overall but still a bit dirty.
I would like to see him do his job well without the cheating for once. He has some nice defensive abilities.
Nobody is luckier than Alonso for escaping a red
It doesn’t happen with Alonso a lot, whereas Busquets is already world-famous for cheating, diving, and play-acting. Remember his peekaboo performance vs Inter at camp Nou where he got Thiago Motta sent off? And that’s just one of too-many-to-count.
Busquets hardly dives or cheats,ok he exaggerates how bad he gets fouled quite a lot but that isn’t cheating.Busquets doesn’t deserve his reputation,I can think of many worse cheats than him.I have only very rarely see him actually feign contact and dive though.
Great game by him yesterday as always.
“And that’s just one of too-many-to-count.”
No. That was it. He did that, years ago, and it has ruined his reputation. In the last two season, I have NOT seen him dive more than the average player (yes, almost every player dives). He isn’t a cheater. He occasionally has to exaggerate a legit foul, otherwise it won’t be called. But he does not go down when there’s no contact. And he definitely is not an overly aggressive player, like you seem to be suggesting. On the other hand, in every clasico since the manita, Alonso has been violent, and should have gotten red cards in many of those matches. However, since his reputation is that of a perfect gentlemen, people turn a blind eye. If Busquets was as physical as Alonso, or dived as much as Di Maria, he would probably be executed. Get over that one mistake he made in 2010.
This was a Madrid with their best line-up against a Barcelona without their complete first choice defense. And still Barcelona, after a very weak start, was the better team.
Xabi Alonso is a disgrace for football. Because he talks well, listens to the right music and once every ten games gives a great long pass, no journalist ever criticizes him, but he’s a far dirtier player than guys with a reputation like Pepe and Ramos.
“and once every ten games gives a great long pass” – bro if you only watch some games of Real Madrid then dont judge Alonso. He gives great diagonal crosses in every game!
To be agressive as a defensive football player is forbidden? I dont think so…
He crosses the line between agressive and violent in every clasico, just because he knows he will never be sent off.
Can you please cut down the Hyperbole. Did Alonso commit a few fouls in the second half that could have been given a second yellow? Yes. Did he commit any blatant fouls that would ever be given a straight red? No. To call him violent, that is a funny joke coming from a guy who supports a team that once employed Mark Van Bommel.
It would have taken a ballsy ref to show a second a yellow card to any player (Busquests made a few questionable challenges while on a yellow) in a match of this importance. And as a fan of the sport, I am happy that no one was sent off.
he should have been sent off tonight, thats all. same with ramos. though i would also say iniesta dove at the edge of the box (didnt matter, corner kick). a PK could have been awarded to either team, possibly 2 to barcelona.
had to say i thought RM would do better when alba, adriano, masch and montoya replace abidal, pique puyol and alves.
maybe mou thinks the depth of his team will win back 8 pts over the course of the season. injuries seem to affect the (shallower) barca team more. mou seemed happy with a point away from home. wonder if di stefano will have wanted more.
This is how it generally works. A man as biased as you, whether he be a fan of Madrid or Barca, will always see refs biased against his team even though the ref was right down the middle fair. A biased fan will always see why the player on another team must be sent off.
I think if you ask 100 true nuetral fans they would all agree that this ref was overall VERY fair, that they would have been upset for the ref to give the game to one team or another over such worthless niggling fouls that don’t affect the game 1 iota! Remember Messi flashing an imaginary red card —this should be an automatic card. Remember diving from Iniesta in the box, an automatic card. But these cards were not given, and thankfully not given. A true football fan wants to see a REAL football game, not one decided by the ref for no reason whatsoever. If an actual violent act is made or an obvious goal scoring opportunity stopped, then yes. But to kick a player off simply for non-relevant fouls that have no effect to the game whatsoever, is something only the most biased of fans want.
Why not just wish La Liga would cancel the game before hand and give a win to Barca?
i laughed so hard on this comment. so true.
second choice defense??? rewind back to august and see the way ur first defence was whipped in camp nou…ronnie making fun of pique…hahaha…wen will d cules grow up..u guys played so well past 3 yrs…still u r wayyy too far in terms of class….filled with inferiority complex…dats y named cules!! ::P
no dude, in august barca had adriano in for abidal (cancer) and masch in for puyol (bad knee).
great game yesterday though, madrid did well to match barca with none of their starting 4 defense.
Im sorry, could you say that again in English please..?
ah yes, illegible gibberish will surely convince everyone of your position, troll.
Mascherano and Alba are first choice for defense in this season, so you can cry cry cry cry cry more…
Madrid had very bad start in the league and has been playing bad for weaks, and still win the Supercopa and yesterday could win.
There is the disgrace for football, you pussy divers Fabregas, Alves and Busquets…
Dude this is not goal.com. some civility ok.
everyone needs to follow the example of pepe. upstanding human being.
“Barcelona were less vulnerable in that zone once Montoya replaced Alves”. I find it amazing that not many people are talking about Dani Alves’s staggeringly poor performances and sulking this season. He’s been sulking since pre-season and he’s deliberately playing at 50% to let the club know that he isn’t happy. Not only has he been shocking defensively but his constant runs and contribution in the attacking third have been non-existent. He doesn’t even smile or dance anymore and his energy is gone on Barca’s right flank. He was solely responsible for Sociedad’s equalizer, Sevilla’s first where he invited Trochowski to take a pop at Valdes, then he did the same with Ronaldo tonight. Didn’t even attempt to block the shot. The contract negotiations that went on for most of the 10/11 season where he was almost sold went on for so long because he demanded wages equal to Xavi Iniesta and Villa which is the highest tier in Barca’s structure after Messi: http://estaticos.sport.es/resources/jpg/3/5/1341866234553.jpg
He didn’t get the raise he wanted and had to sign for a small increase. Then when rumors spread in the summer that Barca were willing to sell him he came out and said he was sad because the club didn’t support him. “It upset me that the club didn’t come out to defend me, but then I understand that, because the club looks after its own interests rather than the player’s. I am above that sort of thing and if the time comes when the club decide they don’t need me, I will just have to accept it. I would like to leave in the same way that I joined. I would like to think that when I leave, I would want to feel that I have left my mark, however small it is.” Then a week ago he comes out and says my door is “ajar” if PSG want me. His role is essential for Barca’s system to function and his lack of interest has hurt the whole team this season. I think he’s done at Barca and will bank on him soon unless he stops this sulking and focuses on football. Real Madrid had a field day in his zone today until Montoya replaced him.
- You’re obviously “in the know” about his salary. Grow up. You nor the papers know anything about his contract.
- Summer: he was right about that, because the club was offering him to clubs all around Europe without talking it through with him, which was not really as it should be.
- PSG: check the full interview, not the quote you picked up somewhere, he said: “if Barça don’t want me anymore [who knows I then end up at PSG].”
Said that, he needs to man up and find his best form again or Montoya takes his spot this season.
First, no need to be sarcastic when you obviously don’t follow the game closely sweetheart. His wage demands were well known and confirmed by many trusted journalists like Balague and people “in the know”. Bartomeu, Barcelona’s vice president, said publicly that they wouldn’t break the wage structure of the club for Alves. His contract negotiations went on for a year and broke down many times because of those reasons. Second, How do you know Barca were “offering him to clubs all around Europe”? Are you “in the know”? Tito came out and said Alves was the best right back in the world and the club had no intention of selling him, but that wasn’t enough for precious Dani who clearly wants more money and attention. Third, don’t make up your own quotes. This is what he said from sky sports: “They did talk to my representatives about the possibility of a move but that was low because my price is very high and they quickly moved on to talk to others. One never knows what the future holds and if one day Barca no longer want me then who know? PSG is on the great teams and the door is still ajar.” If that’s not sulking then I don’t know what is.
Balague? I don’t trust him.
Still, if you want to paint Dani Alves as someone he’s not, well, all footballers should know that’s part of what they signed up for, so carry on.
Personally I predict Montoya will be phased in as the club and Dani Alves try to find a move that’ll please Dani and bring in good money. I hope everyone is happy with what eventually is to come, I’ve been very pleased with Dani Alves as an FCB player.
When it comes to player feelings and movement, I never forget Luis Enrique and Luis Figo.
Balague is a good and respected journalist, and he wasn’t the only one. I’m not even going to argue about the wage issue anymore because everyone who follows la liga closely knows about it. About Alves, I’m not trying to bash him or anything. He’s one of my favorite players. Alves for me has been the most influential player of this Barcelona team behind only Messi and Xavi. He’s been consistently brilliant for almost four years but he started to decline towards the end of last season, and this season he’s been utter shit. If you disagree with this then you haven’t been watching him. I said he’s a vital player to Barcelona but at the moment he needs to be benched and Montoya should be ahead of him until he gets his head out of his arse.
I don’t trust Balague.
Regarding Dani Alves… I followed the wage issue pretty closely. As to his play this season, while ‘utter shit’ MIGHT be an exaggeration… I also find myself… unimpressed. Of course, while I watch the matches carefully, I’m no grandmaster tactician, so I wouldn’t be shocked if someone more insightful made an eloquent and demonstrated argument as to how my assessment of Dani’s play being subpar is demonstrably false.
Though Dani’s thigh injury makes this all academic for now. I hope Dani heals well and heals soon, though I’m looking forward to seeing more minutes for Montoya.
Balague, apart from being an Espanyol fan so not really trying hard to be neutral about Barcelona, isn’t “in the know” about Barcelona, what are you talking about? He ever got an exclusive? Just copies what he read/hears in local press.
Barcelona leaked stories to the befriended press about Alves maybe leaving. If you know how the club works, it’s clear they were pushing him out.
If Alves wanted more money he would already have gone, or not have signed for Barcelona from the start.
Skysports isn’t the original source, it was an interview in France. They asked him specifically about PSG rumours and he politely answered what anyone would do talking to a French journalist pushing: “for now I’m a Barcelona player, and if they don’t want me anymore, who knows.” But so the main thing is: “if Barça don’t want me anymore”.
Well Balague was the first journalist to break the news about Guardiola leaving, which was the biggest summer exclusive, but you’re just proving more and more that you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. Why are you even questioning Balague’s credibility when Barcelona’s fucking vice president talked about it? You seem to be a bored troll trying to have a pointless argument. It’s just hilarious how you accuse me of pretending to be in the know yet you come up with some imaginary conspiracy bullshit about Barcelona wanting to “push Alves out of the club”, “leaking stories” and “offering him to clubs around Europe” without a piece of evidence to back your shit up. Every big European club would have bid for Alves if Barcelona really wanted to sell him. And stop cherry picking your fucking quotes, I quoted everything he said correctly which should give you an idea of the context it was said in unless you’re trying to waste my time.
He’s a Brazilian samba footballer and apparently not the brightest lad. They don’t last long. He had his 3 seasons of glory and is reaching his 30s. Time to cash in and move on. Montoya stood his ground against the fiercest attacking team Barca can possibly face. Twice. Wouldn’t be a big loss for Barcelona, having both future fullbacks of the Spanish national team.
3 seasons of glory? 4 at Barcelona already, and a couple more at Sevilla. Any right back who can compete with that? Let’s think and not use cliches.
Lahm?
Dani Alves has been a monster for years (3 seasons of glory yeah right), a few sub-par games and already you want to throw him under the bus and call him stupid and whatnot?
Alves maybe 29 but Cafu still played at a very high level in to his early/mid 30’s.It depends on his attitude,if he is dedicated enough and trains hard he can carry on been world class even if he loses some pace(he alreadys has done).He is just as good as Cafu ever was IMO,Alves has been the best wingback in the world for 6 years.Only player who could compete with him was Maicon for a couple of years.
Only when he retires will people realize what a great player Alves has been,I don’t think he deserves to be pushed out of the club.Now Alves has to prove he has what it takes to hold the position down because Montoya looks great.
mister zm,
we know you love ozil but “the role of Mesut Ozil was important – although his contribution on the ball in the first half was minimal, his movement into wide zones helped overload Barcelona in the full-back positions, and Real could get crosses into the box.” is the biggest load of bollocks you’ve ever written. ozil didn’t overload dick & the crosses were dangerous because of fullbacks playing inside, not because they were overloaded.
talking out of your arse, mate. talking out of your arse.
A better result for Barcelona considering the were missing every player from there first choice back 4 and remain comfortably ahead in the league. Not sure why Real were content with a point
Alba is the first choice left back
Abidal will be, if he can recover like the doctors seem to think he can.
Barca’s deeper at fullback than centerback, and Abidal looked good at CB when he did it for a stretch in 2010-2011. He plays CB for France, and with Alba looking good, Abidal can bring size and athleticism…and the skillset of a natural defender! to the middle of Barca’s D. Adibal and Pique in the middle is a lot steadier than Masch and Adriano.
Agreed: I think if/when Abidal comes back, he’ll probably see time at center back, because Alba is going hold down the left for years to come. I hope he does make it back, and his presence can only help the defense. Still, this Clasico was a good result with only 1/4 of the first choice defense.
1. The ability of Alonso to not get sent off in these fixtures is amazing. AMAZING, I tell you.
2. Busquets must be the most cold-blooded player ever. Surrounded by Ronaldo, Benzema, Özil, Di Maria and he does those little feints and turns to create space for himself in tight spaces. It’s unreal. Can’t believe he’s still 24. In that position you usually don’t peak before turning 28, 29-ish.
3. Ronaldo must be really unpopular in the Real dressing room. I can understand his sadness. A superb team goal for the first one with Özil passing to Marcelo who flicks it with his backheel to Khedira who gives it to Benzema who sends Ronaldo through 1 on 1 with Valdes, who fucks up on his near post for the 7950380th time, and that Ronaldo lad celebrates and points to himself as if he just left 5 defenders for dead, scoring a wondergoal. That “2″ celebration almost looked comical in hindsight with Messi scoring 2 afterwards.
4. Barca’s backline was comical: Montoya-Mascherano-Adriano-Alba. 1 DM, 3 fullbacks. So the midfielders had to share defensive responsibility. Xavi and Iniesta played deeper than they normally would, thus resulting in “Barca playing infront of Real”. Looked like a counterattacking formation with basically only Pedro upfront. The last 10 minutes or so is probably what would have happened more often if Barca had reliable defenders, allowing the front 6 to do their own thing and not concentrate on doing the defender’s job as well.
This El Clásico proves that you can have as much tactics as you want, a dodgy defender and a keeper will decide a game far quicker than tactics.
and a fumble in penalty box and blinding from the free kick wall too…
yeah, i’m pretty sure casillas would have done better without a wall, lol. prick.
I dont follow the game as much as most of you here, but still, I was wondering about something…
Doesnt Busquets “suit” more the job of CB replacement rather than Song?
I think Guardiola already played Sergio as CB, but I cant remember the context and how he did.
*** Doesnt Busquets “suit” more the job of CB replacement rather than Song?
Yes, but he’s virtually irreplaceable in the midfield, despite Song being a very talented player. Plus, his pace is more than a little questionable.
Still remembered how Busquets was outran by Rossi in 2011
Couple of points with madrid plaaying such a high line, dont you think is better to have player like Tello or Sanchez starting.
I think iniesta is wasted on the ouside plus this means that Cesc is playiing in the MF
instead of iniesta. I would rather play Cesc on the outside than leaving him in MF.
As good as Cesc is you got to be perfect to play the Barca style. I thought Barca was weak there today Cesc and Xavi made bad passes that put Barca in bad spots.
My last point this game shows how important it is for barca to have CB with great positioning and that can pass from the back. I just think those players are rare.
It is clear to see that Barca needs a CB, which the club should have bought one after the departure of Milito, yet they still have not bought one after the disastrous season.
Barca can win the league but will not win the CL
On a completely off topic,
In the Zaragoza-Getafe match Leon was tackled by two defenders at the same time. However only one of the defender got sent out and the other did not. Is there a rule which states that you cannot give red card to two defenders at the same time? Also how do you decide which defender needs to be sent off? The question has been bugging me since Saturday.
Sad not to get any reply whatsoever!:(
No
In a way it was a typical Classico: Real was better in the beginning but wasted their precious chances but by the end Barça was the better team.
d only sensible comment…spot on
i dont know but i dont agree with your observation first lets us see what barca were trying to do . now i think looking at the team under pep and under there are some differences while under pep barca tried to play around messi trying to provide him with space to run or pass ball to his feet to score . under tito he trying to play barca more as a unit and you can see that messi isnt making those runs anymore he is playing more as a team member rather than as as a special one because he isnt getting the kind of space and service that he used to get under pep . secondly under tito barca are using more of the width than they would had used under pep . under pep even though pedro or alves would make the deep runs but they would always pass back the ball and try to play more central rather than crossing the ball while under tito they try to cross the ball but the trouble with barca is that they dont have a recognized forward who try to get to the end of it . they dont press that agressively under tito which they used to do under pep . their defense still looks shaky and many times they were overconfident that teams cannot score against them because they are barca .
Being a fan of your observations on each game, ZM, I am a bit perplexed you didnt mention something about this game, which was evident to anybody who watches Barca matches:-
Ever since the Barca era began with Pep – did we ever see Barca playing this kind of a game – with so much attention being paid on to their backline. They looked like a bit worried/scared/nervous to play their normal game – ie starting the attack from the back – beginning from Valdes. In the first half, Valdes hardly passed a ball from the goal kick. You could sense that special feeling, that they need to be wary of their defence. Of course, this is not rocket science and everybody know Barca played with their worst defense line in the last 4 seasons, however that obviously made a big change to the way they attack, for me, is an important tactic of the game. Barca hardly tried to attack even, in the first 20 or 30 minutes. They were so scared about leaving Valdes open to the quick counters of Madrid.
At the end of the match, Barca should be pleased that didnt lose the game. And here was a chance for Real to win a game with more than one goal lead on Barca, but they couldnt.
Valdes, Adriano, Alves, Pique are useless
what about casillas positioning on the free kick?? i felt he was too far down the other post and could have saved it if reacted quickly…
he expected the wall to do its work and another not so much of a clean strike from messi .
keeper can not prevent every strike on a FK. he protects against the high percentage shots and hopes that the taker can not make the lowest percentage shot, which messi did.
i was impressed by the way real started the game they pressed aggressively and most importantly untill now what i had not seen was the somewhat of crisp passing which i had been demanding from mouriniho’s team . but problem with real is they get caught in a zone they cannot work a single flank they dont have midfielders who can support their wingers and fullback to work a zone and they were getting caught in that but having said that mourinho got his tactics even terms of offense he flooded the right zone so that ronaldo could have the space on the left and the first goal was an evident of that . you could see no. of times khadeira making those runs in that right zone so that they had numerical superiority in that zone and then they worked the ball nicely for the opening goal . but the one worrying still for real is still that they dont have anybody to control that central zone who can control from there and play there like xavi when he comes forward or iniesta when he comes inside . alonso plays too deep khadeira hasnt got that talent he is a destroyer while ozil tends to drift into spaces on the flanks creating spaces for others he doesnt stays in the middle and that is the area which real have to workout if they have to have success in europe . some may argue that the second goal came from that zone but it was more of a stupid defending by barca rather than real creating it .
How come you didn´t comment on Khedira´s role in the game? Breaking up the play and making surging runs down the right hand side. He created mayhem together with Di Maria. Thought he had a much better game than Ozil, who was, to be fair, totally invisible the first half…
ozil invisible in first half?
did you know ke started the first goal?
did you know he started the move for the sitter missed by Benzema & Di Maria?
Ozil started more Barca attacks than Real Madrid attcks in the first half. BENZEMA created the first goal. Brilliant turn to free Ronaldo. Ozil played a part, but so did Marcelo, Khedira, and more crucially, Benzema. The sitter you talked about was ALL Khedira – go watch that play again. You probably have Ozil and confused buddy.
I wasn’t convinced Khedira did anything particularly notable. He had a good game, as he generally does, but I don’t think he either (a) played particularly better than usual or (b) played particularly different from usual
Khedira didn’t make any mistake. So that is (a bit) better than usual
Besides, he had a couple of pretty good/clean interceptions/tackles in dangerous situations, plus some outstanding stamina that allowed him to contribute to the offense regularly.
So, similar game as usual, but definitively above average in execution. But that might be just my perception.
It is interesting to see how much more disciplined but also effective and actually well Khedira plays with Madrid compared to the German team in the recent games after the Euro.
Nice analysis, good read as usual.
Do you think that Cesc Fabregas has the needed physical attributes like speed and dynamic to play as a left-winger? why did Barcelona use such an asymmetry in their game?
Somehow I feel it will be another wasted experiment like pushing Iniesta out wide was. Also I wondered why Tito didn’t bring Thiago into the game, as Fabregas was really awful.
And anyone think how Barcelona will react to Real’s tactics in the next Clasico? Because I have the feeling that Villanova will try something new before Mourinho can catch up – like Pep Guardiola did more than once in recent seasons.
For german speakers -> a german tactics blog also wrote an analysis about this game:
http://spielverlagerung.de/2012/10/07/fc-barcelona-real-madrid-22-2/
I agree with your points. With Madrid pressing so high you need your best MF to overcome the pressure and speed on thw wings to take advantage of the high line. I would have benched Cesc brought Iniesta in to MF and had Tello or Alexis or even Villa on the wing. Cesc is just not good enough to play the MF.
That’s true. Wasn’t it in the last Clásico in la liga when Pep surprisingly put Tello on the left wing to make runs in behind Arbeloa? I thought it was a good idea which did not work because of Tello having a bady rather than the opponent being able to cope with such a tactic (in theory at least).
Tito probably wanted to use Alba extremely high and Alves deep against Ronaldo, which should have given the team more security with the ball with another midfielder. Still I don’t think that the vertical and impatient Fabregas (in relation to Xavi or Iniesta) is this type of player Barcelona wants him to be. I prefer Xavi and Iniesta.
Though it would be interesting to see Messi back on the right wing, Fabregas as false nine and Pedro or Villa on the left. The Messi-Alves partnership was something else and Fabregas had his best games when he stormed into the box from behind, which could be created again with Messi on the right and his passes between the channels.
thiago is injured for 2 months.
Barcelona are happy to take a point after trotting out that line-up. I never imagined Adriano lining up at CB. I’d be shocked if Tito doesn’t buy a CB in the January window given Puyol’s ongoing problems.
The best system for Fabregas at Barcelona is one that Tito probably won’t use (and one Pep only used once or twice). It is the 3-4-3 Diamond (Messi False 9, Fab False 10). As long as Xavi can play, Barca won’t use the formation.
Ban Harry, ZM, please….
I enjoyed the game even though I don’t think it ever reached the same level as recent games.
Barcelona were very conservative and although Madrid had the opportunity to try and press further upfield with Barca’s defensive problems, they never really appeared ready to do so.
Neeither side will be that concerned. Titles are never won in October.
My views on the game can be found at:-
http://chalkontheboots.wordpress.com/2012/10/08/barcelona-vs-real-madrid-tactical-analysis/
No Barry (or is it Harry?), I was referring to ZM’s loose rule mentioned at the top, where adults conduct rational arguments. The reason so many of us like this site is that you can have a good, respectful debate, unlike goal.com. Many of your points are valid, I was merely asking you to be a little more civil.
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