Liverpool 2-2 Manchester City: neither entirely comfortable with new approach
The line-ups after Shelvey replaced Lucas early on, with Allen dropping into the holding role
Liverpool scored from two dead ball situations, Manchester City scored after some poor defending.
Brendan Rodgers gave a full league debut to Raheem Sterling on the left wing, and played Sebastian Coates rather than Jamie Carragher at the back. Lucas Leiva started in midfield despite getting injured in the warm-up, and was replaced after three minutes by Jonjo Shelvey, with Joe Allen dropping into the Lucas role.
Roberto Mancini used that 3-4-1-2 system showcased in the Community Shield. David Silva was left on the bench, and Kolo Toure started rather than Joleon Lescott, with Pablo Zabaleta to the left of the three.
There was relatively little creativity from open play here, and the tactical battle was relatively unexciting despite City’s unusual formation.
Opening stafes
City started as the stronger side, with the back three spreading across the pitch and pushing City high up. Liverpool seemed to take a while to adjust and understand the way City were playing – in the opening moments their pressing was a little disjointed.
The battle in this game was basically down the flanks. In the centre of midfield, it was three against three and relatively little action. Allen had a very good game, especially considering his change in position (he started higher up in midfield), and Samir Nasri played one excellent through ball to Carlos Tevez, who hit the post. But otherwise, this zone was static.
Wide
Liverpool’s dilemma was about how to use the wide players. Should they close down the City wide midfielders, or let them have the ball and concentrate on picking up the wing-backs? Mancini pushed his wing-backs higher up the pitch, which made the decision very important – there was a big distance between his outside centre-backs and wing-backs.
The key to Liverpool getting into the game – and this will probably be true throughout Rodgers’ reign – was their ball retention. This gave Liverpool greater control, and pushed the City wing-backs towards their own goal. From there, City had little width high up the pitch and were predictable with their attacks. It also meant Liverpool’s wide players could press the Manchester City centre-backs 3 v 3, then drop back and help defend against the wing-backs.
Sterling
Borini did this reasonably well, but Sterling was the star of the first half on the left, essentially playing two roles. He defended against James Milner – he didn’t need to get goalside of Milner, just maintain a position nearby, preventing passes towards him. City lacked a midfielder who could launch diagonal passes towards the wing-backs, and neither Milner nor Kolarov had a significant impact upon the game. But when Liverpool win possession, Sterling broke forward quickly and could attack Kolo Toure. The Ivorian was uncomfortable when drawn into wide positions and looked exhausted at an early stage, which made it difficult to see why he was played there rather than Zabaleta (with Joleon Lescott coming in as a natural left-sided centre-back).
Sterling also gave Liverpool’s attacks urgency and directness – they looked like a side able to retain possession or counter quickly, rather than one obsessed with ball retention over penetration. His cross for Borini was (along with Tevez’s chance) the best opportunity of the first half, though his influence upon the game was much less in the second half, partly because his energetic role in worrying two players wasn’t sustainable for an entire match.
Full-backs?
If there was one criticism of Liverpool’s positional play, it was that they didn’t take full advantage of the freedom of their full-backs. Both Glen Johnson and Martin Kelly had decent games, but they didn’t create significant overloads down the flanks, although the first goal came from a corner after Gerrard moved to the right before crossing, similar to his assists for England during Euro 2012.
City didn’t defend well – the three-man defence doesn’t seem to offer any significant benefits to City at the moment, and they more or less had the classic problem of a 3 v 3 at the back, and no spare man. Some passes were wayward because of Liverpool’s pressing, and the centre-backs didn’t like being pulled wide by movement, or having to dash back quickly into central positions at defensive transitions.
Second half
The game didn’t significantly progress in the second half. Mancini made his usual cautious attacking change, introducing a midfielder, Jack Rodwell, for Nasri with Yaya Toure moving higher up. He scored from that position, but the key to the goal was a Liverpool error.
After Suarez put Liverpool ahead for a second time, Mancini eventually reverted to a more familiar system on 75 minutes, with the introduction of David Silva for James Milner. Zabaleta moved to right-back, Kolarov became a left-back. The system still seemed a little confused, however – Silva was on the right, Toure a playmaker, Edin Dzeko (on for Balotelli) high up the pitch with Tevez. Again, the goal resulted from a Liverpool mistake, rather than a great switch from Mancini, or a piece of brilliance from one of his attackers.
Passing from the back
Skrtel’s mistake was so ludicrous that logical explanation is possibly unwise, but it wasn’t the first time a Liverpool defender made a mistake under pressure – Coates was caught on the ball by Balotelli earlier on (although overall he had a good game.) It’s impossible to know whether Skrtel would have simply cleared the ball long under a different coach and a different playing system, but you can’t ignore mistakes in possession when the coach has clearly demanded short, patient passing at the back over longer balls.
The Slovakian also made an error in the first half when he pulled down Balotelli, which suggests that Liverpool have not yet fully adjusted to the demands of playing a high defensive line – although this wasn’t as obvious as in the defeat to West Brom, indicating progress. This is a period of adjustment, and major changes aren’t needed. The passing approach will win Liverpool more points than it loses – although they’ll be won in a much more subtler way than they were lost here.
Conclusion
Liverpool weren’t 100% comfortable playing high up the pitch and being told to pass out of the back, City weren’t 100% comfortable playing with a back three. Rodgers won’t change his approach – Mancini might have to, because City don’t immediately appear any stronger defensively or offensively, and he is under pressure to get immediate results. Rodgers will take more positives from this game – Allen’s passing, Sterling’s wing play, Coates’ calmness.
As a tactical battle, both were too concerned with getting their own system in shape to think about exploiting the opposition’s weaknesses.
Brendan is getting there, Livrpool will improve!
Mancini needs to learn the benefit of 3-5-2 will only show itself against 4-4-2
Enjoyed this analysis. Just to add to your point on penetration vs. possession, Carroll’s introduction for the last 8 minutes provided reassurance that Liverpool have a “plan B” to play for territory rather than time on the ball if required. I thought he looked pretty dangerous for the closing stage, and the team was able to switch approach.
I really felt sorry for Caroll last night. Everyone knows he isn’t a fit in Rogers’ system and yet he tried desperately to prove otherwise. But I agree with you it seemed Liverpool did have a ‘Plan B’, although it remains to be seen how he’s used in matches where Liverpool are behind.
First thing he did after coming on was overhit a simple pass by 10 yards. Hopefully he will go before next week, along with this notion of a “plan B” for Liverpool. LFC should be about pass-and-move and playing good football, not hoofing and low quality technique.
Skrtel’s pass was reminiscent of the back pass (forgot who) during Swansea’s game with Manchester United in which they lost by a goal to nil. I’m sure Rodgers is expecting mistakes like that coming to a new team. Liverpool making nice progress.
Isn’t it someone’s job to get into position to receive a pass from Skrtl when he looks hemmed in? Perhaps even Reina?
That was Angel Rangel. Equally, at the Emirates Vorm tried to roll out to Rangel and Arshavin scored from a tight angle.
Yup under Rodgers and the passing game you do lose some vital goals like this.
Passing out from the back always risks that kind of scenario, even Barcelona have been caught (di Maria’s goal midweek). You either play like that or hoof it upfield most likely giving the ball to the opposition, allowing them to start an attack.
I’m a bit baffled as to how this is supposed to work when the opposition doesn’t just drop off nicely into their own half, and this has been the case in both games so far. If the full-backs push up and the centre-backs spread out and there’s good pressure from the striker(s)/midfield, there’s not a whole lot of options at times. Reina is excellent at distributing the ball through both kicks and throws, it seems slightly silly to both underutilise this and expose the defence to someone like Tevez making an interception.
Liverpool’s pass-and-move of the 70s-80s was not based on dogma.
The best option probably is just relaxing a little the dogma, but it all comes down to player judgement. I would think in occasions like the one Skrtel was caught out, Rodgers would prefer a long ball out to a winger where there is less pressure. Even Barça sometimes are forced to hoof it up when under intense pressure, Rodgers must know Skrtel isn’t able to play out of trouble Piqué or Busquets.
Perhaps there should also be more movement from the midfielders to allow passing lines to the CBs, ie Allen, Shelvey and Gerrard alternating dropping deep.
How do you guys think Rodgers will fit in Sahin when all mids are healthy and ready to go? Gerrard wide right or maybe even on the bench? Lucas is nailed on in my eyes and as good as Allen plays right now he should be as well. Sahin in form is a must too, especially with all the money invested in him. All three are also good fits for Rodgers system with a lot of short passing, ball retention and movement off the ball and Gerrard not so much.
Will he become a token of nostalgia sooner than one might expect?
Sahin’s a good fit for current Liverpool? Not exactly. His reputation is based on him playing for a quick, counter attacking team in Dortmund, and his role (nor the execution of that role for that matter!) was no different from Adam’s @ Blackpool or Gerrard’s when deployed deeper- always going for the most difficult pass imaginable. (Unsurprisingly his pass success rate was 75,9% back in 10-11.)
With Sahin coming to the side, it’s difficult to tell how Rodgers plans to play his midfield. It’d make more sense to field a 2-1 instead of a 1-2, or even a very fluid three man midfield, since majority of the 1st team midfielders are comfortable in the holding position (though not necessarily in the role). Balancing the midfield area (in conjunction with the forward trio) will be the toughest task for Rodgers at Liverpool.
I would like to disagree on this point to some extend. As a Dortmund fan I have seen Sahin a lot and he was vital to our game because of his ability to switch between long incisive balls and simple passes.
I think that he is a very good fit because he likes to come very deep to pick up the ball from the center backs and than distribute it. In 10-11 he used to pick up balls even in left back positions, allowing the fullbacks to push up and giving the center backs an easy pass out.
He could become very vital in making it easier for Liverpool to play out from the back.
Not sure who is going to be the one of the four thats left out. It seems like a no go to play without Gerrard but I think he is the least suited for the midfield three.
Maybe playing him on the right in the front three with a free role could be the answer, provided that Johnsen can push high up and provide the width needed.
Crap
Agree with this, was thinking the same.
No way — the toughest task by far will be getting production out of his front 3. His system requires the forwards to both win in one-on-one situations and finish; Borini and Carroll can’t do either and Suarez can’t finish consistently. Big problems there, while the midfield looks to have depth and should work out nicely without too much fuss.
Thus, as I said, it’d make more sense to field a 2-1 instead of a 1-2 midfield. The additional support upfront (as in playing a #10, Gerrard surely) would relieve much of the goal scoring burden placed on the wide men and suit the players at hand better. Sahin at his best is somewhat of a Alonso figure and in Lucas’ absence, Allen/Spearing would make a decent pair for him with Adam covering for Nuri.
I know Rodgers would like to field three forwards, but with the transfer window closing soon he really should opt for pragmatism over his ideals. He simply doesn’t have the players to successfully play a 4-3-3 (or Mourinho’s Chelsea style 4-5-1 for that matter), so reverting back to 4-2-3-1 (or even a 4-2-1-3 when needed) would make more sense than trying to force a system that doesn’t fit the players.
A lot of us are wondering the same thing as Gerrard has clearly been our weakest midfielder in these first two games, giving the ball away like crazy. But it’s already enough of a miracle to see Carragher go to the bench; we should just be thankful for that and not ask for too much right away. One more season, perhaps.
I think that’s not a major worry, in Lucas, Allen, Sahin and Gerrard that’s 4 class players for 3 positions, in a team that will play a congested calendar of 4 competitions including a very crammed Europa League, he can simply rotate them without leaving anyone in the sidelines for any long. Particularly so given they are fairly versatile, as demonstrated here by Allen having an excellent game playing deeper than usual.
Can’t see Rodgers using Gerrard on the right, he’ll want a player with pace and trickery there, going very high up the pitch, Gerrard on the right would be far more fitting to a classic 4-4-2 than a Rodgers 4-3-3, and even then I don’t think he plays at his best there.
Osasuna against Barca please.
‘Again, the goal resulted from a Liverpool mistake, rather than a great switch from Mancini, or a piece of brilliance from one of his attackers.’ definitely thought the tevez goal was a piece of brilliance
The next game should be very interesting against another team trying to find their game. Rodger’s Swansea team out-Arsenaled them last season at home.
OT: So no analysis on Barcelona 3-2 Madrid?
I second this! If not, maybe the second leg would suffice.
About Skrtel’s mistake, if you want to play a passing game, you WILL lose goals like this. But, like ZM has said in a post sometimes before , I don’t remember the exact quote, gaining possession from short passes far outweighs the number of goals lost like this.
Spot on mate, but of course some people will say if u play percentages u won’t make bad mistakes like that and just won’t understand that in the long term it’s better to pass out from the back.
My opinion is that the supercopa match was not very exciting from a tactical point of view so maybe that’s why ZM decided not to write an article about it here.Anyway, Cesc seems to be struggling in the deep role Villanova is using him so far.Anyone agree?
Barcelona vs Osasuna and Madrid vs Getafe were both very interesting games from a tactical point of view,much more interesting tactically than the 1st leg of the copa.
Just watch the switch Tito made in the Osasuna game which worked:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMK4Uv4LAfI
The naivety of Brendan is shown here, where a more experienced manager would have taken out one of the forwards and replaced with another defender, protecting the 2-1 lead with 10mins to go playing 541 or 451 to that effect. Surprised that he left the substitution so late in the game, when clearly Borini was looking tired after playing 3 games in a week.
I agree. Both Sterling and Borini had little impact in the final 20min.
Sterling should be replaced by Enrique and Kelly stays on the pitch instead.
agree, I know Sterling was sort of left out to dry by Johnson but Tevez bullied past him twice, one of which resulted in the first goal. I thought he should have given him the hour and then replaced him with Henderson.
Funny conclusion and typical Liverpool supporters mindset. Why Liverpool always never in urgency to get immediate result? How to win the premiership when you keep dropping points? In my opinion, Gerrard, Skrtel and Kelly should be dropped in next match to reflect their poor performance.
Of course Liverpool are in no hurry to win the title; its called a transition phase, a work in progress etc.
Are they showing signs of improving or not that’s what counts.
Seems like half of Serie A saw 3-man defences and Man City using it as well. Look what Bielsa (Chile), Napoli, Udinese, and Juventus have started. Haven’t seen Wigan so far this season, anyone know if they’re sticking with the 3-man backline they switched to the last half of the season last year?
Yes, Wigan started the season with 3 at the back.It’s a shame they lost Moses, especially to a team with a plethora of attacking mids.It’ll be interesting to see if Kone is a worthy replacement.
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Man city lacked a CB that was good on the ball and could bring it out of defence, a agger sort of CB for example (a good reason why he Mancini tried to sign him). This along with a de Jong and yaya partnership in midfield meant city had no player who dictate play from deep or launch counter attacks with quick long balls to the wing backs or strikers. In the second half I think kolo and Milner developed a much better understanding and delt with sterling a lot better, tho in the first half he was Liverpool’s most dangerous player. In attack city lacked the numbers to overload Liverpool, with one Liverpool fullback always staying back, they were always 2 vs 3. A more static striker could have created space for the likes of tevez and balotelli.
For Liverpool, skrtel and Coates looked potentially like a good partnership if agger does leave, though they will need time to build up an understanding of each others game. Allen looked excellent as the holding player, recycling possession well and keeping position excellently, it could see Lucas moved into more of a box to box role perhaps if liverpool want a technically better player in deep positions. Overall the whole side looked well balanced, keeping possession well, maintaining good width and directness, good movement from the 3 forwards and good link up play. Suarez was excellent dropping off and linking play, while also creating space for the two wide players. Gerrard also linked the attack with the defence well, though I would like to see him make runs past Suarez more and get into the box.
A draw was the fair result in the end, but Liverpool will take more positives from the game. For man city, a back three doesn’t suit their current players,a ball playing cb must be top of Mancini’s list.
what do you talk recycling possession what is that . in a 4-3-3 width is provided by the wing backs and not by the forwards . for me borini and sterling played too distant from suarez although sterlings position was decent with his position but borini need to be clever with his position . he should try to play as near to suarez as possible so that kelly will have the space come up and overlap .
You’ve just assumed all 4-3-3’s are the same.
I have seen my club Porto play with a 4-3-3 with 1 or 2 very attacking fullbacks and very wide wingers for years with great success, same for the Portuguese national team, indeed it’s pretty much the default tactic for Portuguese football. Lack of striker support can occasionally be an issue, but with the right routines, good midfield movement, and well timed runs cutting inside or arriving late at the box from the wingers, it can work very well.
It needs a proper complete striker though, one that can hold the ball, be technically gifted, physically powerful, and clinical in his chances. Suarez is a fantastic player but he doesn’t fit this role well, I’d rather try him as a winger cutting inside. But Rodgers’ Liverpool isn’t Porto so he may have a slightly different idea.
i have a different take . i think that city started brightly they were trying mostly to open the right flank open both tevez and nasri shifted in that zone and they created a numerical advantage and looked threatening tevez even hit the woodwork on one such move . but then midway through the first half mancini changed the approach and they never looked threatening.
most importantly liverpool closed them down very nicely particularly allen and shelvey who looked very good . for me rodgers is getting them used to the system and they still look to play be a bit deeper either it was credit to city who stayed deep which stretched them .
for me liverpool still played with too much of distance between their lines .
as per as the players are concerned then i think that allen was rightfully lauded for his passing skills as well his defensive work but another player who went unnoticed for his good work was shelvey he looks comfortable with the ball his decision with the ball and his movement plus his defensive work is very good . for me rodgers should try to play shelvey just off suarez he can very well link up with him plus can be very good on defensive duty also . he is the one for the future . gerrard needs to played where borini played because he hasnt got the energy to go and close down and is not so good in playing tip tap in the middle that rodgers want instead in borini’s position he can deliver crosses at which he is good .
rodgers needs to work with caroll just because he cant play that style doesnt means he needs to be shipped out . rodgers needs to work with him and make him understand as well try to enhance his personal skill’s which sadly dalglish wasnt able to improve because as fellani had shown size can be a big factor on the field .
if rodgers wants liverpool to play to his tune then not only does he needs to make them understand the system but also he needs to improve on their personal skills as well .
I have to agree with the analysis of the non fitting back three at Citys side. The problem is not only described by the defensive parts of gameplay with this line, it is also a problem when City posses the ball. Sides like Barcelona, Chile and Italy normally uses a Defensive Midfielder as the Central Full Back to get a better connection to Midfield with a player who runs with the ball forward in the centre. In Germany it is an unspoken truth that the best way to develop your ball possesion is to get forward in the centre at the first 30 or more metres, just becaus the opposite has to cover more space in the horizontal. And the so called Switch-Centre Back (Vidal at Chile and Busquets at Barcelona for example) is good choice to get this idea on the pitch.
Nuri Sahin played this at Dortmund with great tend to the left side. But this was critised by the manager Klopp, because he lacks higher up the pitch. Maybe that critics is only the result of the great playmaking skills of the defender Hummels.
A 2-1 formation would make more sense with Sahin and Gerrard on the pitch, because Lucas Leiva vould be the Box-to-Box-Player and Sahin could be the Deep-lying-Playmaker. A combination who looks like the midfield in the german national team with Schweinsteiger and Khedira. This would als prevent that Suarez is alone in the centre (supported by Gerrard), because Sterling looks a little bit like the classic english Winger with problems in narrow spaces. And i havent seen enough of Borini to make a good forcast how he could fit in a 4-1-2-2-1 with more central wingers. So a 4-2-3-1 for Liverpool makes more sense in my mind.
“Liverpool’s dilemma was about how to use the wide players. Should they close down the City wide midfielders, or let them have the ball and concentrate on picking up the wing-backs?”
So in City’s 3-4-1-2 I would say that the wide midfielders and the wingbacks are the same players… So the quote above makes very little sense, right?
He meant outside center backs.
So he should’ve said something like: Either they track the wingbacks/wide midfielders, or they push up and put preassure on the CB’s
Skrtel is always unreliable at LCB. He looks much more comfortable at RCB, especially when he is playing alongside Agger.
Does anyone here think that for all of City’s discomfort with the 3 man backline thus far, the 3-4-1-2 will help them press better up the pitch against sides looking to play the ball out from the back? Obviously Liverpool aren’t Barcelona, but the natural positioning of the forwards and wingbacks meant that Reina simply had no outball once possession was recycled to him. At goalkicks, he resorted to kicking it long to Kelly down the right, who won all his headers against Kolarov, and once Liverpool got the ball out of the defensive zone they were able to pass it well, Allen having an good game in particular.
Skrtel….last week he took a ball from the GK facing his goal and on his front foot ( right)..which trapped him and had this been an opposition team it would have been a trigger for pressing. It highlighted that he does not know how to open up to receive a ball and is very poor with his left.
Against City he took the ball in the left back position, received it on his back foot (left) but then had to switch it to his right. He was slightly contorted as he looked to try and find a pass with his right. Nothing on he turned back and outside on his right foot…then played a back pass without looking up.
His inability to open on his left and use his left caused the problem. However, in the back four set up he needs to do this as he occupies the left side.
Ramos had exactly the same problem in Euros but mostly cut back to his right to play any passes..often to Alba or Alonso…..but can’t remember seeing Ramos take it on his left and open up and go on that side/foot.
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Seems that Coates is a bright talent. Realize he is not quite there yet and needs to adapt and develop some more, but his composure and physical presence are impressive. He could have a good future at liverpool. By the way, terrific article, Michael Cox. Your site stands out as one of the best football pages in a sea of Jaime Redknapp-esque garbage!
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ZM, did you see the highlights on the BBC? I thought I discerned an attempt by the “analysts” to analyse a little; ditto Saturday night, ditto the previous weekend. I presume a “Pull your fingers out” order had been issued. About bloody time.
can i urge you one thing can be talk about the transfers since they too are one of the important aspect and which club did a good buisness and which club needed what and what they got .
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I feel that the 3-4-1-2 doesn’t really suit the Man City squad. Firstly, Kolarov is their only real natural wing back, and whilst Milner can do a job there, I believe he is better in a more advanced position (an example being the 6-1 victory over Man United. Similiary, Zabaleta is made to play in a more unfamiliar position in this formation. Whilst the City squad is very strong, the CB pool doesn’t seem good enough to consistently play with a back three.
Also, this formation can stifle one of their most dangerous players in Yaya Toure, as Nasri will be placed in central space ahead of him, forcing Toure to play deeper. Linked to this, Nasri is seen as the one primary play maker, with much of the player going through him. Therefore, if the team can deal with Nasri, much of the City’s play through the middle can be negated.
Finally, their usual 4-2-2-2/4-2-3-1 allows for both Silva and Nasri to play in the same team, where they can drift in from their wide positions to help create chances and score goals themselves. With the 3-4-1-2, one of them will most likely be benched, which is somewhat of a waste, and makes the team less of an attacking threat.
Let’s assume that team A want to play a pro-active game and team B are set-up in a 1-striker formation (either 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3). Man City’s performance serves as a benchmark of what may happen with 3 at the back. So why shouldn’t team A actually go with 2 at the back thereby freeing up the Libero to either play in front of the back 2 (something akin to a Busquets role) or further forward.
In that case the wing backs can pick up the wide forwards yet still leave a defensive man spare. Team A also has an additional player further forward to give them a numerical advantage in midfield or force team B to adapt.
“In that case the wing backs can pick up the wide forwards yet still leave a defensive man spare.”
Isn’t that getting back to a back 4 though?
In some respects I suppose it would resemble a back 4. But look at how Borussia Dortmund’s fullbacks play against single-striker formations – they push really high up the pitch and are essentially wing backs. Perhaps that’s a better template.
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