Barcelona 4-0 Santos: Guardiola plays even more passers; Santos barely see the ball

The starting line-ups
European champions Barcelona thrashed South American champions Santos in the World Club Cup final in Yokohama.
Pep Guardiola was without David Villa – and probably will be for the rest of the season – and Alexis Sanchez wasn’t considered fit enough to start. Therefore, Guardiola played ‘traditional’ midfield three and pushed Cesc Fabregas and Thiago Alcantara forward.
Muricy Ramalho dropped Elano from the side that overcame Kashiwa Reysol in the semi-final, bringing in Leo instead.
Barcelona were dominant from the first whistle to the last, enjoying an even larger spell of possession than expected, and could have won by more.
Guardiola team selection
Without both Villa and Sanchez, Guardiola named an unusual side. Usually he likes at least one true forward in his front three to stretch the play and allow Lionel Messi to drop deep without making Barcelona too congested in the middle. In the one exception to that rule this season (the only time he’s started without one of Villa, Sanchez and Pedro Rodriguez) Barcelona were lucky to get back into the game with a late equaliser at Athletic – and in that game, Messi was played wideish, with Adriano on the left to provide width.
This was different – Thiago played on the left whilst Fabregas took it in turns with Alves to become the highest player on the right. Barcelona had more ball-players than ever before – this was the first time Sergio Busquets, Xavi Hernandez, Andres Iniesta, Fabregas and Alcantara had started in the same game. That’s essentially five passing-based central midfielders. Guardiola had said before the game that possession was important here, even more so than usual, and his team selection reflected that.
Ramalho team selection
Santos played a surprising formation, a rough 3-5-2 that they’ve used only sporadically in league games with a reserve side. Danilo moved forward to become a right-wing back, with Leo playing roughly the same on the other side. However, Leo was being pushed back by Alves which meant he played much deeper, whereas Alcantara played more centrally, allowing Danilo to move higher up the pitch. As such, the formation sometimes looked like more of a back four.
The move didn’t really work. With Barcelona packing the midfield even more than usual, Santos had three defenders at the back doing little – even Messi dropped deep which increased Barcelona’s advantage in midfield, and furthered Santos’ surplus at the back. The two central midfielders, Arouca and Henrique, had no idea who they were supposed to be picking up, and were often faced with four players in their zone.
Surplus at the back
Santos did often have three spare defenders, but they were often overawed with the Barcelona players breaking from deep – for the first goal, for example, Durval starts in a good position but somehow manages to let the ball slide past him and into the path of Messi, who had been outside the penalty box five seconds beforehand. Individual mistakes were a problem for Ramalho, but the positioning of the defenders didn’t help.
Nor did Ganso’s display. He remained high up the pitch and got goalside of Busquets, but didn’t really take any part in the defensive phase of play, and later on it seemed that Ramalho told him not to even bother defending, with Neymar doing more running than him. Ganso stayed too high up the pitch (which was also a problem in the Copa America, in a completely different system when his side were usually in possession of the ball) and therefore wasn’t in a position to start attacks.
Danilo also contributed little before he was removed after half an hour. He stayed too wide and didn’t help flood the zone Barcelona were looking to play in. With two upfront, Ganso too high up and Danilo too wide, Santos often looked like only six players were doing anything worthwhile without the ball. Elano replaced Danilo and was better in this respect. He played narrow, which meant Thiago moved wider to get space.
Attacks
In fairness, Santos did break a couple of times but were let down by poor decision-making by their attackers. Barcelona were also allowed to commit a few fouls to break up counter-attacks quickly – Gerard Pique did this a couple of times, and was booked before the break for the sixth successive game.
Barcelona did their usual thing – plenty of rotation in midfield, lots of quick passes and one-twos inside the box. The game was essentially over by half time, at 3-0, though Messi added another goal late on.
Conclusion
What could have been a tremendous encounter turned out to be disappointingly one-sided. Barcelona were marvellous, but Santos gave them far too much time in the midfield. They were constantly slow to close down in the middle, then when they did they were outnumbered and Barcelona could play through them, before using one-twos to bypass the defence.
The game also marked another example of Guardiola’s desire to play as many midfielders as possible. “The midfield is a crucial part of any team,” he told FIFA.com this week. “Midfielders are intelligent players who have to think about the team as a whole. They’re selfless players who understand the game better than anyone and the more midfielders you have, the easier it is to slot them into other positions. That’s how they become versatile and that helps us to have smaller squads that are still able to offer more options.”





Barca were too much for Santos, who must consider themselves lucky not to have considered another 4. Neymar? What was he doing in the pitch?
Neymar is 19 years old.
Don’t know if he will be as good as Messi, but give him some time.
Leo is so special, the mixture of his talent, south american street football, and european / la masia education is unique.
Neymar was frustrated by a complete lack of service. ‘Where was Ganso’ is the more appropriate question.
And yet credit to Neymar for defending diligently. Ganso is non-existant defensively.
Was Ganso’s performance evidence for the irrelevance of a certain kind of playmaker in modern football?
Either he’ll have to inject some dynamism into his game and adopt more of a Xavi-Iniesta role, or else he`ll have to be indulged as a kind of Pirlo at the base of midfield. Otherwise it is hard to see how and where he is going to get hold of the ball.
And Mano Menezes and the CBF are looking a bit foolish right now for building their 2014 World Cup campaign around such a figure.
I think Pep have some crazy obsession about “central midfielder”.. wonder if Masch and Keita replaced Pique and Abidal, then Barca only have one winger, one striker, one defender, one keeper, and the rest of central midfield..
It was as expected you can’t do anything if you can’t get the ball to do anything with
I thought the system was ineffective in that it left both Busquets and Pique free. That is tantamount to disaster.
Pep’s taking Jonathan Wilson’s idea of “universality” to its ultimate conclusion.
Soon all players will be central midfielders!
The question is no longer about the position itself, but the characteristic of the player.
What makes a CMF at Barça?
They have good stamina, technical quality, excelent passing, decent finishing and an insane work rate.
They are all-around players… that would play well in almost every position they were put in.
That’s much more than an appointment for a CMF, but rather a demmand for a nearly perfect football player.
Regarding the (over?)population with midfielders, I guess everything has a limit. One that Barcelona may well have reached, if not surpassed. This season, barring victories against a very week Santos and an underperforming Real Madrid, the catalans are endlessly swaping midfielders from CB to CF positions and playing poorer football than during the years of their last two CL wins.
lolwut
Surely you can’t explain away every Barcelona win as the other team under performing? After winning 5 trophies this year you just have to admit that Pep knows what he’s doing!
lolwut?
you are right that there is a limit for everything, this season with the constant rotation, change of formation, and injuries Barca have slipped a greater number of times than the past 3 years, but to say they played poor football yesterday is…..
they played effin brilliantly. yesterday was just one game, so point being if Guardiola can find a way to get Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Alcantara and Fabregas to play together like they did yesterday more consistently we are in for a football revolution and another period of dominance by Barcelona. their ideology of just keeping the ball has just gone a notch higher by playing with these 5 midfielders.
as Guardiola said “Midfielders are intelligent players who have to think about the team as a whole. They’re selfless players who understand the game better than anyone”.
Total Football and Tiki-Taka – the ultimate combination on the verge of Perfection. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Where did I write that they played poor football yesterday? What I did say is that this season Barcelona is playing poorer and with that I meant football of less quality than in the 2008-2009 and 2010-2011 campaings.
Revolutions can only be appreciated with the hindsight of time. So, let’s not get too presumptuous.
This season Barcelona have won every trophy available to them and are in contention to win everything else. They have lost a grand total of one time, away 1-0.
You’re really going to say that’s “poor”??
And how is a Real Madrid on a 15 game win streak, clearly annihilating other teams, “an underperforming side”?
I think you need to re-read his posts a couple of times. You’re misstating what he said, even after he clarified.
I don’t agree with what he actually said; but you’re criticizing him for things he didn’t say.
Of course history can be appreciated as it happens: Steve Jobs presenting the first iPhone, 9/11, fall of the Berlin wall…
But geting back to football, Guardiola’s FCB have been, for the fourth season running, considered a revolutionary team.
Any examples of sides which were as widely-regarded, and for as long a time, only to be dismissed as ‘hype-only’ later on?
Madrid are underperforming? I’ve heard it all now.
Not all of it, you will hear some more now. If you watched the last Clasico you got to agree with me that they underperformed in that particular match. Of course they were facing the best opposition so far this season but in addition to that they did not seem to have their best day, or night. Many will argue that the reason, pure and simple, was Barca’s quality. It can well be, but I am not convinced. When it comes to the rest of their rivals, both in La Liga and CL, Madrid is doing pretty well.
How much longer must we endure the Madrid underperforming argument? If Ronaldo finishes his 2 opportunities Madrid scores 3. If Casillas doesn’t stand on his head Barcelona scores 3 more. Final score Barca 6-3. Using your logic Barcelona underachieved because they didn’t score 6. You can rationalize all you want and say Barcelona hasn’t played as well as 2008. Go back and watch the 2009 CL final compared to the 2011 and the differences are dramatic tactically, SOP and on and on. Pep is experimenting with an unheard of tactic and still decimating opponents whether the scoreline shows it or not. It seems that what you are saying is the competitive structure of football is defective. Champions emerge through the competitive system of the competitions only to “not produce their best” when facing Barcelona in a Championship final. I say BS. Maybe once or twice but not 13 out of 16 competitions not including the last 9 times Barcelona has faced Madrid going 6-2-1 and outscoring them 20-4 in the last 3 1/2 years. We are truly witnessing the greatest team ever. They have been 20 years in the making and are still evolving. The great teams of the past had achieved what they did thru various tactical plans that always changed depending on the opponent. None were ever recognized for a certain style. They all played varying styles during their reigns of greatness. Barcelona has never changed their style regardless of playing “park the bus” champions, counterattacking champions possession champions, hybrids etc. Barcelona has been suicidal in their devotion to one style and have defeated every one of them. We are witnessing the culmination of 20 years of evolution and judging by this result and the result of last week’s clasico it is not done. IMO it will continue to evolve and the biggest challenge will be to continue to evolve when the alien finally decides to hang them up.
well said
Santos really invites a lot of danger at the back with how they shift so much of their defense ball side. It didn’t cause them too many problems in the semi-final, but Barca just gashed them down the flanks after playing balls out wide: http://twelvepointsports.blogspot.com/2011/12/barcelona-4-0-barcelona-messi.html
With Villa out for the remainder, it will be curious to see if Guardiola plays Thiago out wide more, or keeps Messi routinely dropping behind Fàbregas or playing behind Sánchez.
Such a fun side to watch, and such tactical interest as well.
When you thought we had seen everything, Guardiola is revolutionizing the game.
There was nothing revolutionary going on…Just awful defending from Santos. Individually and as a team.
Santos even allowed Kashiwa Reysol a handful of great chances in the semis. It was clear if they do the same to Barca it would be painful. And that is exactly what happened.
Santos played horribly but that doesn’t take away, if not in direct relation to, how Guardiola set his players out.
Menotti didn’t lie when he said there can only be one Guardiola!
the “genius” tag may be excessive, but the truth is, we all like football, yet only Guardiola seems to understand it.
As a Barca fan, I think there is even more to admire about Pep than is often recognised. That is his ability to execute the ugly side of the game. “Barcelona were also allowed to commit a few fouls to break up counter-attacks quickly…” – this is every Barca game I’ve seen under Pep. Especially Dani Alves
For a team that commits so many players to attack and plays defenders for their passing ability first and tackling second, how many times do Barca concede on the break? Hardly ever. The only time it happens is if possession is lost very close to goal, otherwise a cheap free kick is prefered.
Also, Pep likes to draw as many yellow cards from the opposition as possible as early as possible. Once the opponents are carrying many bookings it is much easier for guys like Messi and Iniesta to play their game.
I think the 1st leg Champions League against Real Madrid last year was the best example of Pep’s ability to mix the sublime with the nasty. To be honest I was concerned going into it after losing the Cup but Pep fought fire with fire.
Funny, but it wasn’t Barca at her very best. Lot of inacurracy near goal area, and especially Alves and Iniesta were far above their performance in El Classico. But Santos pressing was so poor and playing against Barca with only 3 defenders looks like tacticall suicide. And it was indeed. So, for me, the game quite simillar to Barca against Napoli in this year Gamper trophy.
Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol and Villa are current champions of World, Europe, UEFA Champions League, Spain, and FIFA Club World Cup. Amazing.
And even though they’ve won everything there is to win, they still seem genuinely to enjoy playing. And they want to win more. To be able to watch FC Barcelona and Federer reach their respective peaks at (just about) the same time is amazing.
Barcelona are getting better. It’s evident in their game to game growth in the new system Guardiola is pushing them to play. The players are better understanding how to play 3 at the back while still spacing the pitch in ways which avoid clustering too much in midfield and narrowing the formation.
Dani Alves dominated the entire right flank. Not only did he push Leo deep to the backline – Leo still couldn’t defend him. And Alves, despite playing so high, still tracked back defensively. Look at the header in the second half Neymar couldn’t control. Alves was the one tracking Neymar’s run.
Agree with ZM on Ganso. Some lovely final balls to the front two. But he was so poor defensively. Often Santos deteriorated into a kind of broken formation due to his limited work rate. Busquets and Xavi were recurrently open in space in Ganso’s zone. Neymar defended more in midfield than Ganso did – which wound up dragging Neymar off the left flank narrowing their transition opportunities.
They are growing more accustomed to the new players and tactics and they are also better physically. There have been some articles published in Spain recently on the training cycles used by the club to prepare the players physically. Apparently, even before knowing the date of the first clásico, Guardiola decided to design the training to have the collective peak come at this time of the year, obviously with an eye on el mundialito, which I think means more to him and the club than most fans understand.
A lot of the tepid play we’ve seen earlier in the season had to do with players not being in shape, now there is a convergence of tactical understanding and physical fitness. I expect the second half of the season to be very strong, despite the loss of Villa.
Barcelona play a 361 with dani alves as the only (wide) striker, seriously who would have imagined to see something like that 5 years ago?
crazy stuff is this barcelona team
i wonder if they are actually going to be able partly disappear in like 5 years or make a real legacy of it dragging the world football level up behind them
because it’s clearly a revolution they are doing, they bring tactics to a philosophical level so theorically we should see the whole football world follow the barcelona inspiration and not barcelona just disappear like the sacchi milan and ajax etc did…
I hope…
Hundreds of kids are learning that for more than 20 years at La Masia. Have you seen how much from this school played today? … and how old are them? Isn’t a temporary chance to group 10 great players able to play in this way, there are a lot behind and ready to jump anytime.
I hope we see more teams willing to inspire themselves on elements of Barcelona’s football, I think the creative freedom and fluidity of their attack is highly inspirational and will deeply affect many managers and players. But I don’t think we’ll see a huge revolution of everyone playing tiki-taka. If you don’t have the ability to get far more of the ball than the opponents, you can’t play this style of football effectively. You can take ideas from Barcelona’s style but not put all of your eggs in the possession basket like they do.
As for the impact these new formations might have on other teams, it must be noted they are very much based on the players at hand. For the whole of Guardiola’s reign his two key players have been Messi and Alves, first on the right hand side and now in these weird positions that I don’t really see any other players able to successfully play in. Who else can dominate the entire right flank to the extent of Alves? Or drop as deep as Messi does but still be the pitch’s biggest goalthreat? The same goes for Busquets who, needless to say, plays the “Busquets role” better than anyone else.
Teams need to first copy Barcelona technically before they can do so tactically.
Don’t forget Xavi and Iniesta. They are the players that made Barcelona so dominant.
Xavi and Iniesta aren’t unique players in style, there are hundreds of playmakers in the world in the mould of them. It’s just that they are so much better than anybody else…
Completely disagree. Iniesta is the most unique player in the world in my opinion.
Second-most in mine. But still good.
Surely Messi?
Maybe ganso is a special case here, in that he’s a particularly bad player out of possession, as seen here, but it seems to me that playmakers are somewhat redundant against barcelona.
Their particular genius of being able to create inventive solutions to break down tough defensive units is unnecessary against barcelona, because their team is unlikely to have much possession at all, let alone be stuck with the ball on the edge of barca’s third, and, as is sadly often the case, their defensive ability is lacking either due to application or ability, or both. This makes them almost literally a dead weight which is exactly what you don’t want against barcelona. Ozil, not helped by his teammates individualistic styles admittedly, exemplified this in the clasico.
Barca through press as well as making a full press, but they don’t settle into a defensive unit, so you don’t need to unluck their defence, you just need to break their press, once it’s broken, it tends to be the simplest combination play that creates chances, the type of stuff that academy trained footballers can do with their eyes shut. Not that it’s easy obviously, just that clinical execution is more critical than visionary conception once you break a press. That’s not to say either, that you don’t want good passers in your team; good passing sides that are brave with the ball present the sternest examination of barca, but rather that you need well rounded ball players, not magicians. Alonso’s not silva’s, sahin’s not kroos’s.
Some of the best individual performances against barca have been from players like wilshere and banega, players able to dribble out of the press, and then play simple, but progressive passes. It basically means that they can contribute in both phases of play. Clearly players like ganso and ozil contribute little in possession as they are starved of it, and less out of possession too as they are simply not good out of posession. Everyone knows you don’t want to be a man down against barca – it makes a tough task harder by miles – by playing these classic types of creators, some of barca’s opponents are doing just that.
It robs the team of the coherence necessary to compete against the masters of coherent strategic and tactical football. Because that’s what really defines the barcelona approach isn’t it, not being a possession team, not just running a high line, many teams can say they are one or either or both of these, but it’s the way their footballing strategy is so perfectly integrated that it’s become a philosophy, an ideology. They press high to get the ball back and then play exceptionally carefully with it.
To understand the alarm that fabregas causes with his goal-hungry, incisive play you must realise the damage he threatens to a beautifully balanced, homogenous strategy that’s designed to extract maximum advantage over a full 90 minutes in terms of fatiguing the opposition, allowing a shallowish squad to rest, denying the other team the use of their attacking talent by preventing exposure to it, giving all barca’s creative attacking players the maximum touches in promising situations.
If Xavi and Iniesta played football like Cesc does, barca wouldn’t be the same team. They’d be a lot more fun for sure, but they would be horribly exposed. Pep knows this, he’s said so – “we’re a horrible team without the ball” – so he’s steadily creating a system that maximises even further all of barca’s strengths and masks their weaknesses. Hence all the ball-players at centre back, the use of midfielders at centre-forward.
And I think that’s the important thing about barca, that their strength is strongly systemic rather than purely the result of a conglomeration of talented individuals. The fabregas interview in four four two was revealing in this regard, he made a lot of how, though the basic principles are the same, own the ball, attack, create chances, the process has become much more intense and studied under guardiola, even when attacking. I’d post a link but I bought a hard copy, well worth a read though.
Anyways, far too tl;dr so I’ll just call my ramble over now.
brilliant post.
and an astute observation that classic “playmakers” are often superfluous. Sneijder’s a good exception. he was so effective for Inter because of his work-rate and willingness to play more simply than he usually does.
Absolutely fantastic post. I agree 100% on your point regarding Banega and Wilshere. Its no coinciednce that Valencia are the team that still gives Barcelona the most trouble around. Its comes down to Banega’s ability to maintain possession under pressure and then dribble his way past the initial press. Once you bypass the press, creating chances is an easy thing to do. I remember reading that Barca aim to win the ball back when they loose it in six seconds (can’t recall where I read it or who said it) and that is the time period in which opposition teams need to hold the ball to drag them out of shape and up the field, and then a quick move beyond Busquets and the back four is exposed.
I think a player like Banega is what Real Madrid lack at this point in time, and could make a huge difference in their performances vs Barca. Madrid may currently create some chances against Barca, but that comes down to the individual quality of their forwards, and not through coherent buildup play from back to front.
Disagree on Kroos. He is really no ‘magician’, but a great passer and ballhandler. In fact, he would be the only german midfielder, who has the abilities, to play for Barcelona and perform well. (Schweinsteiger’s distribution is great, but way too slow in Barca terms.
What about Ozil?
Özil doestnt have the strength and the physicality to press like Barca does.
Yeah, I didn’t really mean kroos on reflection. Was just trying to write it all down before I lost it. Think I meant ozil but had already mentioned him a couple of times so needed another attacking german midfielder to contrast with sahin to make the point clear. Obviously failed lol.
Götze seems to be born to play for barca
Ramalho said: ‘No team can live with them. They’re unbeatable at the moment. Losing 4-0 to them is no disgrace.’
I wonder how he knows. His team didn’t try, they were no challenge. Of course Barca is the better team. but if you defend bad, don’t try to win the ball, leave the opponent a lot space to play the ball etc, not only Barca will beat you.
I could write about tactics (and I will), but it doesn’t really matter. Don’t think it was the best Barca game. Was a little surprised that Thiago was playing wide and not Pedro (who is more used to it).
For me Santos played a back four when out of possession (>70% of the game) and they switched to a back three when in possession. They had a player moving from centre of the defence into a holding role (don’t know if always the same player).
Guardiola said: ‘My players were like artists’ He’s right. but I would say his team as a whole is like an artist, it’s a joy to watch.
Congratulations to Barcelona. They are so good, most opponents don’t even try to be opponents.
Have to agree with you here. Let’s not forget that Muricy had 5 MONTHS to prepare this tie! Barcelona had barely a week.
And yet, as ZM points out, Ramalho fielded a largely experimental formation which his players looked thoroughly unfamiliar with.
Barca’s advantage to have big games in a row. They are used to get the focus on a big game in a few days and don’t have to think about the one opponent for months.
They showed in the clasicos that they are able to perform. and to be fair, Real has several games a season against Barca. Santos had only one game and they don’t compete in Europe, so they can’t compare games against Milan or Bilbao.
But it doesn’t explain everything.
I wonder when they start playing like this: 7 central midfielders +Pique, Alves &and Messi
Valdes
—Mascherano-Busquets-Pique—
——— Keita————–
——- Xavi– —Iniesta——-
Alves———Cesc——Thiago-
———–Messi————–
This game showed the differences in intensity and pressure between the Brazilian Championship and European game. Sure Santos were poor, but their players simply weren’t used to the intensity of pressing and physicality that even against a team from a “less physical” league like Spain.
Watch a game in Brazil, as soon as a player is touched he is awarded a free kick. There was a moment where Neymar was running towards Barca and he was crowded out and he just stopped expecting a free kick.
This competition is becoming a waste of time. The European teams are way too strong for the rest. They should invite, at least, the UEFA Cup Winner as well just to add some intrigue.
‘…even against a team from a “less physical” league like Spain.’
maybe less physical, but not less intensive. Barca plays 10% more passes (relating to equal share of possession) than other teams in Europe.
Ha! I love the English soccer’s self-promotion and self-adoration (please detect sarcasm). If English soccer’s best redeeming quality at this point is that they are “more physical,” coaches would be wise to stop emulating them, since they can’t even beat the Americans anymore. Thuggery and buggery over quality soccer…no thanks! Please England, keep riding Rooney, Wilshire and Co. to underachievement and criminal charges and leave “less physical” (i.e. quality) soccer to the Spanish…we’ll let results decide who should be emulated.
Did you even read my post? Where did I mention England anywhere in it? I was comparing the superiority of European soccer in general (last time I checked Spain is in Europe) over South American soccer.
The commentators on this site are getting worse and worse.
Indeed I did read it… and I just reread it. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you: Spain is a less physical league compared to which one?
You drew the comparison, I didn’t. I assumed you were referring to the widely held belief that English soccer is more physical. Perhaps that was presumptuous on my part, so which league were you comparing it to?
Santos showed that they are just as bad as any European team that plays poorly against FC Barcelona. The backline of Santos are poor and Durval is ridiculous. Brazilian squads have no money to invest or buy players and for Santos to keep Ganso and Neymar they had to ASK the NATION of BRAZIl to help pay their salaries.
Santos is just as bad as every other team that plays against Barcelona. Most importantly, Santos has inferior players in the back. In reality Neymar played just as good as CR7 or Rooney did against Barcelona.
simple…
When I saw Ramalho’s selection, I knew Santos was done for (although even with the “right” team a victory would be unlikely). He did pretty much everything Guardiola wanted him to do.
And Santos’ defense always looked weak- Zonal Marking should check out the Santos 4-5 Flamengo match for the Brazilian League, certainly the most entertaining game of the year in South America and probably anywhere else. In the occasion, Santos, playing with a regular backline, and the same team of today (only changing B. Rodrigo and Henrique for Elano and Ibson) opened 3-0, but couldn’t keep the advantage due to poor defending and Ronaldinho in one of his good days.
Ramalho said it best: “Without Villa and Alexis, they went for a formation that is blasphemous in Brazil. They played a 3-7-0!” I think Pep thinks of midfielders as stem-cells. Midfielders are able to morph into forwards or wingers or backs.
Link? I must read that.
http://oglobo.globo.com/esportes/muricy-eles-jogaram-num-sistema-que-seria-um-absurdo-no-brasil-3472811
It is in portuguese.
Barcelona played with two forwards, Messi and Cesc.
Did anyone else notice Danilo limping before he came off? I thought I saw that.
@noikeee
i’m not talking about copying dully barcelona i’m talk about taking inspiration from them, you don’t have to make your youngsters play a 433 and do tiki taka to have a philosophy, it’s about taking the idea of using the fact that you are better if your youngsters are specialised in your style and philosophy of play
of course barcelona’s tiki-taka is a kind of absolute collective football so if you don’t copy them you probably won’t reach them on this particularism, but for example you could implement a dribbling philosophy, have your youngsters unstoppable on 1 vs 1 phases forcing the opponents to double team every player and so create esay breaches
you could also have a direct football philosophy closer to english football, sacchi’s milan or bielsa’s football etc
you could also implement a 3142 in a german club with a distance shot philosophy (i’m saying german club because distance shooting is already par of the country’s culture)
it’s about taking the idea of having a philosophy not copying barcelona’s philosophy
and actually other clubs had a philosophy, a specific style of play starting with the youngsters even though they didn’t reach barcelona’s level but still had success, i’m thinking about Nantes in france who dominated around the 80’s, chili now has a style and philosophy implemented in their footballing culture thanks to bielsa’s years etc
i think having a philosophy/identity of play like that is an evolution so maybe most clubs will have one in the future because barcelona is making it undeniable that it’s superior to simply buying players like mourinho, chelsea etc
there seems to be a problem with my posting, i had to post “???” and edit it to be able to paste my comment whom i wouldn’t see other ways…
Guardiola loves versatility, it only allows him to keep the squad small and competitive. Even when he loses players for the same position as with Villa, Alexis and Afellay right now he has no problem in sticking another player in that position. This season for the wide left forward position Guardiola has used Villa, Alexis, Afellay, Iniesta, Pedro, Fabregas, Adriano, Cuenca, Deulofeu and Thiago. No fewer than ten different players. This is another of the important ingredients to Barça’s success.
It’s better for Barcelona if they defend counters with Busquets droping into back line.
They form a back 4, spread, deny space on wings and if one of full backs get’s beaten, they have a spare man.
Way better than earlier tries of Guardiola with one of side midfielders becoming a full back in transition.
He is to far from back line.
This way, Busquets is near, and he can drop back with ease.
I think this is right way.
And, one important thing, with 3 at the back, Barcelona lack width at goal kicks. By playing this way, that problem is also solved.
They can easily switch to their usual routine, which is this-
puyol——————-pique
——-xavi—-busq
dani——————–abidal
When they pass the ball further, dani becomes forward wing, and back three spread across centre line.
I think we will see more of this.
For all the tactical changes that Guardiola has experiments with this season and last, I still think, perhaps wrongly, that the most ruthless, most fun to watch, and overall most-balanced Barca team was the 08-09 team that won the sextuple. That team played good possession football while still being able to play other methods if they needed to. This current Barca, whil technically “better”, really only knows how to play one way. I mean come on, Valdes gave away a goal to Madrid and yet for the rest of the game he continues to play the ball short, while most keepers would kick it long. Some may applaud Barca for sticking to a single philosophy, but while I admit they are the best in the world at it, I ultimately feel their resistance to use any sort of non-possession game other than once in a while, will ultimately be what brings them down in the future.
I admire what Guardiola is doing, and at the same time, I believe he is arrogant, more so than even Mourinho, and I feel his successes make him blind to his arrogance. While he may experience short term success for a few years with this team, I ultimately feel he is setting Barca up to fail in the long term when the next wave of football changes comes, the new cycle arrives, and Barca has no players that can play in a less-possession based style.
Nothing lasts long, they are kings now, but if they want to make it last for a decade, they need players that can play counter-attacking and longballs more often than for a few minutes once every other match.
Look at Fabregas even, he has been personally upsetting some Barca coaches because of the influence of play style he is rubbing off on the team. His “vertical” rather than “lateral” play is, reportedly, influencing his teammates more than the Barca brass like.
“Look at Fabregas even, he has been personally upsetting some Barca coaches because of the influence of play style he is rubbing off on the team. His “vertical” rather than “lateral” play is, reportedly, influencing his teammates more than the Barca brass like”
source on this or youre a troll. (not goal.com)
It is now time to change the Jose pic at the top to one of Guardiola.
I don’t know. I think Guardiola is a good coach, and good tactician, but IMO Mourinho is still the best. Guardiola is incredibly lucky to have one of the greatest starting XI ever assembles. The Barca XI is better than the Madrid XI. He has the Best player in the world, the best midfielder in the world, and arguably, in Puyol, the best defender in the world. Only Valdes is a sometimes liability, but for the way Barca wants to play, his passing skills are more valuable than traditional goalkeeping skills.
The way I look at it. How would they do in each others shoes? Would Guardiola have won the Champions League with Porto in 04? Inter in ‘10? Would Mourinho have won against ManUtd with Barca in 09 and 11?
I believe Mou would have won both CLs with Barca’s squad, while I also believe Guardiola could have won with Inter in ‘10, because Inter was a better squad than Bayern, I don’t feel so sure about it as I do about Mou coaching Barca. I dont think Guardiola could have ever won the CL with Porto like Mou did.
I think, if they switched teams, we would see that Mou would have won what Guardiola won with his team, but would Guardiola really have accomplished what Mou did with Porto and Inter? What do you think?
‘I don’t know. I think Guardiola is a good coach, and good tactician, but IMO Mourinho is still the best. ‘
I disagree, cos often I was disappointed when Mourinho didn’t change a thing when he was behind against Barca (uninspired?). Sometimes he did, and he often tries new stuff, from the first minute (playing extra agressive, park the buss, pressing, ..). And he is maybe the only manager that pushes Barca to the limit (again and again).
But Guardiola always has something new and different. Yes, he has the best team, but he made that team. No other manager would have had the courage and the skills to build this team with this style and to develop it constantly.
There seems to be no limit for the development. Rijkaard and others (even Mourinho if he would work for Barca) would’ve never been able to create that football.
Of course Guardiola is depending on the players (and they are the best) but so were other great managers in history. Mourinho, too. Of course not every manager can copy that football (without cloning the key players). But the team is not developing the style by themselves, that’s Guardiola work.
A lot people don’t care about style, they care about goals or results. But Guardiola creates something new, something bigger, something beyond results.
Here is the highest comment gleaned from the Brazilian Media. 1st a brazilian claimed that we were shown how the game is played. My how times have changed when a brazilian said such a thing. 2nd, Ramalho said that if he tried to play like that in Brazil he would be fired. 3rd, again Ramalho stated I learned 2 things today – how you play attacking football with no attackers and how you defend with no defenders. That pretty much sums it up. And as far as Valdez, by what are you making comparison? By all rights Valdez should be starting for Spain it is only because of who Casillas plays for that he is now the starter. In the past yes, now – no.
Casillas is a better traditional keeper than Valdes. He is better in 1v1. He is far better in penalties. He is far better in reaction saves (see save against Sevilla this past weekend, or save against Sevilla in 2009 Diego Perrotti). Casillas is not as good as Valdes with his feet, but he is better at most traditional keeping skills. Casillas is also more even tempered psychologically, and doesn’t lose his cool like Valdes, who choked Mourinho when Inter knocked out Barca for example.
Disagree on Casillas being better at 1v1 and reaction saves (even though the Sevilla save was great). Valdés’ greatest asset, apart from playing the ball, is his ability to stand around for 85 minutes, and then pull a 1v1 save out of the hat (see for example vs Chelsea, when Drogba had a few 1v1’s). His reflexes are also top-notch.
Casillas may be a bit better, but it’s certainly not by much, and Valdés suits Barca’s play like a glove. They both make some weird decisions once in a while though, which in my opinion always ensures criticism of Valdés, but often gets overlooked with Casillas.
Remember linesman Valentin Ivanov? Yeah, that was the reason Porto won CL. Take a look at CL quarter final match at Old Trafford.
Pretty much every team that has ever won a competition has had a favorable ref ruling at some point in their run. Barca vs Chelsea 09. Inter vs Barca 10. It happens.
mourinho is the best all round coach, but guardiola is the best coach for the best team, if you have a normal club you want mourinho, if you have barcelona or a club enough adapted to guardiola you want guardiola
it’s like comparing maradona and messi, it’s stupid
I wouldn’t want Mourinho coaching a team – I would want del Bosque, or Ferguson, or Marcelo Bielsa
it’s legal to be a bad club president don’t worry
Greatest team of all time easily,at both club and international level.
Surely Guardiola is building his resume as one of the most innovative managers of all time.
He is obviously moving towards a new form of Total Football: one in which the vast majority of the players on the pitch can do everything (i.e. midfielders).
The idea, it seems, is to have no shape or form at all, just a lot of creative midfielders that are comfortable both in attack and defense so they can move everywhere on the pitch.
Even Alexis Sanchez isn’t a striker and Alves isn’t really a defender. Pep’s core starting 11 will soon consist of no strikers and only 3 defenders. He’ll play with 7 midfielders.
The huge advantage is that by retaining possession the players don’t get as tired. So they can chase the ball down faster when they DO lose it, which allows them to have it for even longer. It creates a cycle that the other team just can’t break. It’s new football.
Hi Michael!
for me the outcome of the match came as no surprise: Santos failed to step up to the expectations. You said the Copa Sudamericana was a secondary competition, but now you realise that maybe you rushed your thoughts a little: do you really think Santos or Peñarol are better teams than Universidad de Chile? You should bear in mind that in South America (unlike in Europe), each country has 2 champions per year, so the teams featured in the Sudamericana have actually had more recent success than those featured in the Libertadores, it is as simple as that. Take for instance: Vasco da Gama, it finished second on the overall Brazilian championship in 2011, but it did not feature in the Libertadores. The 2 best brazilian teams of 2011 did not participate in the Libertadores, but one of them did appear in the Sudamericana. Tradition-wise, Libertadores has an edge, but it’s only that, I’m afraid!
During the last summer I remember reading a lot on ’surplus of Midfielders / where is Fàbregas going to play?’ and ‘Barca need to sign another Centerback / Fontás alone won’t be enough’.
Turns out Cesc, Thiago, Keita and Mascherano have all been geting a lot more minutes than Fontás, showing Pep’s squad composition / transfer strategy was spot on.
I certainly did not see that one coming.
Rijkaard sometimes (rarely) deployed Ronaldinho as a ‘false 9′ and the 3-4-3 is very Ajax / Cruyff-like. So even if Pep isn’t a revolutionary tactician it’s like he just does it better.
Simple as that.
Scrath that last part. Doesn’t sound right. Should read: Pep isn’t revolutionary for what he does but rather for how he does it.
The difference to me between Mou and Guardiola, is simply this: Even with Barca’s squad, Mou would never be able to coach this team to play the style of football that Guardiola has done with them. Im not saying he wouldnt win, he just would win less stylishly.
But I can see Mou taking an unfancied team, say Everton, or Liverpool, in England, and turning them into league winners, or at least top teams again. I can even see Mou taking a terrible team like Wigan and bringing them to Europa league place. That is something I think Guardiola can’t ever do. Guardiola is the best coach for truly exceptional players who want to play like Barca, while Mou is just like a machine programmed to take any team and make them way better. Guardiola is a philosopher while Mou is a problem solver. Mou is the best are solving problems and fixing things that are broken, Guardiola is not able to do this. Guardiola takes something that is already working well and he makes it run perfect.
“Guardiola is not able to do this.”
Considering he’s only coached one other team (Barça B, for one season), that’s AAA grade speculation.
For me, Pep is doing steve jobs in inventing a special things in football
Are you nuts?
What team of the level of Everton or Wigan has Mourinho ever skippered to a title? He took over the Premiership’s biggest payroll and Serie A’s second biggest…oh yeah, and before that, he had Portugual’s Primera Division’s top team. Let’s not forget…he now sits atop the biggest payroll in football history: Real Madrid!
He doesn’t rebuild teams as we’ve been led to believe. He takes great teams with a lot history and tradition and let’s not forget, A LOT of money, and makes them great again. More importantly, he studies teams who are already in transition towards championships and “swoops in for the rescue” of impatient owners and fans. He has no history of taking a midtable team like Everton and making them Champion’s League winners…nor will he! He would never wallow in the midtable and risk being with a team who cannot buy the best players in the world. It’s an aspect of his pathetic insecurity…he is not the risk taker people falsely believe. He is clever and calculating when sizing up his next move. Observing his behavior since he arrived in Spain has been a case study in narcissism and passive-aggressive behavior. He isn’t confident, he is very insecure.
A Mourinho reality check:
He couldn’t even win the CL with Chelsea (despite all the talent and money in the world). And he didn’t revolutionize soccer the way Guardiola and Barcelona have. Please have a close look at Chelsea and Inter before Mourinho’s arrival.
Chelsea’s return to the top since 1997 should be credited to Gianluca Vialli and then Claudio Ranieri…Period! Vialli helped them win the FA Cup, Charity Shield, League Cup, Cup Winner’s Cup and Supercup before handing the reins over to Ranieri who continued to rebuild Chelsea. He was given less than a year under Abramovich to buy new personnel. Surely, he was not given enough time to have all the new players create chemistry. So Mourinho inherited a team whose new direction and personnel were already in motion.
And look at Inter. There is no possible way to credit Mourinho for their resurrection and dominance in Italy over the past 10 years! Roberto Mancini deserves the credit and won many trophies with Inter long before Mourinho’s arrival. He brought Ibra and Co. to dominance and made them Champion’s League regulars. Like Chelsea, the Inter squad Mourinho coached he inherited from the true rebuilder.
And what about Porto? They are Portugal’s most successful club in International competitions and the 2nd most successful in domestic.
What about Madrid? Well, they were finishing in second place behind Barcelona before his arrival, and well, that is where he led them to last year despite ungodly amounts of money spent to buy every possible mercenary his heart desired. I have a feeling he will short circuit this year if his Madrid cannot stop Barcelona as his myth-making will be stifled. He is as good a self-marketer and pathological opportunist as the world of football has ever known. Mourinho has no tradition of bringing smaller teams to prominence…so such a claim is dubious.
All the more, when Porto won CL, there were no European heavy weights in the semis, isnt it.
Good post. I think a lot of people say things like “Mou could win with Everton, etc.” because he makes Real look and play like a mid-to-bottom club (more often than not) when they go against Barcelona.
I thing Otto Rehhagel is the greatest.
Cup Winner Cup, German Champions etc. with Werder Bremen,
German Champion with promoted Kaiserslautern,
European Champion with Greece.
Okay he “failed” at Bayern, but that was FC Hollywood in the 90s. Bayern was second only on goal difference and won the UEFA Cup the same season he was sacked and Beckenbauer took over.
He was 14 year at Werder, 9 years in Greece, and a firefighter in the first decade as manager in Germany in the 70s and 80s. (firefighter = manager at clubs fighting relegation)
No, Cruyff maybe the most important player/manager of all time.
You got to be careful with what you say on these days. According to widespread football newspeak things like counterattacking are not football. So King Otto may well be the greatest coach in anything else but football nope.
you’re right.
Then Guardiola is the best manager in playing football. And Rehhagel the best in not playing football.
Not all his teams played like Greece 2004. But I think he would have no problem with a rainy night at … anywhere.
Love Pep’s views on midfielders. Wish he could edumacate the kick-and-chase bozos I play pickup with.