Eight points on Real Madrid 2-2 Barcelona
The starting line-ups
The 2011/12 Spanish season started with an open, exciting Supercopa first leg between Barcelona and Real.
Like the Community Shield, a full-scale analysis of a semi-competitive fixture would be a little much, so here are eight talking points from the game:
1. It was interesting that Jose Mourinho went with exactly the same XI that was humbled in the 5-0 at the Nou Camp last year. The subsequent four Clasicos were all about Mourinho trying to correct the mistakes from that game. Real’s main playmaker in 2010/11, Mesut Ozil, barely featured in the Clasico mini-series, and when did, he was shoved out to the flank. For Mourinho, there was an element of demonstrating to his players that they’ve improved in the past year – from a 5-0 thrashing to a draw, without compromising Real’s natural plans (as they did in the subsequent four games).
2. Real’s main tactic in the Clasicos last year was to quickly play the ball in behind Barcelona’s advanced full-backs, taking advantage of that space and dragging the centre-backs wide. They tried that again here, and it worked perfectly for the first goal – Karim Benzema moved to the right in behind Adriano, Eric Abidal had to move to the left, and Ozil was free to finish in the centre. This appears the best way to attack Barca, and it’s notable that it was Benzema – rather than a winger – who got in behind, for the wingers can’t bring themselves to be brave enough to let Barca’s full-backs go free.
3. On the other flank, Cristiano Ronaldo was used up against Dani Alves. This happened twice in the five games last season – once in the 5-0, once in the 1-1 second leg in the Champions League. Alves makes significantly fewer forward runs when up against Ronaldo, and it will be interesting to see if Mourinho is prepared to play Ronaldo there in the league meetings between the two sides.
4. Pep Guardiola has complained about his players’ lack of fitness – Lionel Messi, Javier Mascherano, Dani Alves, Alexis Sanchez and Adriano were at the Copa America, whilst the club’s US tour caused further difficulties. “The problem is that the heat prevented us from training, and has hampered the team’s level of intensity,” Guardiola said. “We used to have pre-season in Europe, but now we tour. We have to adapt…we really need more time to get to our peak fitness.” This was obvious in how little they pressed throughout the game, far less than in the previous two campaigns.
5. That lack of pressing – combined with a more positive approach from Real – meant that Barca enjoyed much less possession than usual. Statistics vary according to precisely how ‘possession’ is calculated (see Opta’s explanation) but 48% seems to be the most frequently-cited number, more than 10% more than in any Clasico last season.
6. The use of substitute Fabio Coentrao in midfield was another interesting development. He played in that position during Real’s pre-season games, and because Marcelo did rather well in Coentrao’s favoured position of left-back last season, he might find himself used there more regularly this season. He brings a lot of energy to the role, and can also move to the left and offer Marcelo cover, something the Brazilian doesn’t get from Ronaldo.
7. Barcelona spent the second half of last season struggling for centre-backs, but haven’t purchased anyone who can play that role. Instead, Javier Mascherano again started at the back, hinting that the arrival of Cesc Fabregas into an already-congested midfield zone might mean either Mascherano or Sergio Busquets plays more permanently at the back, meaning another ball player can be accommodated in the side.
8. Perhaps you’d expect it from a small, pacey versatile attacker, but Alexis Sanchez already seems to fit into Barca’s system seamlessly. He’ll essentially be doing the reverse of what he did last season at Udinese – starting wide, then cutting in, rather than starting centrally and drifting to the flanks. His movement here was excellent, especially the way he moved diagonally across the front of the Real defence. The one caveat to this is that he likes to receive the ball to feet in deep positions, before running at pace. Barca’s current system requires the wide players to play higher up, and Guardiola will have to be careful he has enough vertical movement from his forwards.
Eight points on Real Madrid 2-2 Barcelona
If Barca had only 48% possession in this leg of the Supercopa, then it is the first time this Guardiola-coached Barca side has ever had less than 50% possession.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story/_/id/944224/ask-norman:-barca’s-possession-and-top-flight-ever-presents-?cc=5901
I think Real were the ones with 48%, although I agree it wasn’t entirely clear in the article. On the broadcast I was watching, they said 52% Barcelona, 48% Real.
according to most of other stat site , Barca less than real…and i believe so …look at the SOG ,Corners and throws….
http://www.livegoals.com/gamecenter/real-madrid-vs-fc-barcelona-14-08-2011
The only real problem was Pepe is not playing in midfield as opposed to how he handle Messi in other game. He seems betters with marking Messi.
I’ve never seen that livegoals site before.
Goal.com is reporting 52%
ESPN ScoreCenter initially reported 60% infact
Even Sid Lowe mentioned there were doubts about exact number but it was later revised to around 52% (in football weekly he said it i believe)
Real when they had the ball used it quickly while Barca were more labored and steady, hence they had more time on the ball therefore more possession time.
Tricky question: Why do Cesc Fabregas decide to use ‘FABREGAS’ instead of ‘CESC’ on the back of his number 4 shirt?
You know, Alexis Sanchez uses ‘ALEXIS’, so does PEDRO, BOJAN, and XAVI. Oh, and he uses CESC in his Spain national kit too by the way…
why aren’t you asking why fabregas is using “cesc” and not “fabregas” in his NT kit? lol
Supposedly a superstition thing, from what I’ve read (apparently he played badly when he had ‘Cesc’ on his shirt at Arsenal)…the other thing worth saying is that Xavi, Alexis & Pedro all have quite common Spanish surnames, which may be why they don’t have them on their shirts…
Bingo. It annoys me that Brazilians are allowed to wear whatever nicknames on the back of their jerseys, but FIFA won’t allow Argentines to wear jerseys with their nicknames.
Can you imagine a Pele jersey that didn’t say Pele? A Cafu jersey that didn’t say Cafu? Alexandre Pato goes by “Pato” even though it’s just the name of the town he grew up in.
Argentina’s internationals have such colorful nicknames and it’s a shame they’re not allowed to display them.
In Major League Soccer, there has been some talk about FC Dallas’ Brek Shea wearing the first name “Brek” on the back of his shirt as opposed to his sir name “Shea.”
If this were to happen, and it probably won’t, then I think he would become the first native speaker of English to wear something other than his first name.
Correct me if I’m wrong.
not sure, but when did names on shirts start? I can’t imagine a Pele shirt saying any name. mybe in the US?
as long as they don’t have “Red Bull Boy” as nick.
Oh, I can’t wait seeing Messi wearing “10 Pulga”…
Don’t people here think like me that giuseppe rossi would have been a better choice than alexis sanchez for barcelona?
Sanchez is tremendous of course but rossi is more of a touch and go intelligent player than sanchez, whereas sanchez likes more having the ball to his feet and trying high intensity individual dribbles
As ZM said sanchez likes to start his actions from quite deep whereas rossi plays higher on the pitch and does runs behind the defence, crutial to barcelona’s game from wingers.
alexis sanchez would definitely be more willing to track an opposition full back should he want to bomb forward and would be more used to this sort of leg work than rossi. But from an attacking point of view rossi probably would fit in well.
i agree that sanchez is playing with a lot of will on defence etc, more than rossi but common they have messi, pedro, villa, rossi/sanchez, iniesta, affelay they don’t need sanchez/rossi to play 60 games a year, and rossi can track back too and is intelligent enough to understand it’s very important
but maybe i underrate the much talked about importance of quick and intense ball recuperation in barcelona’s game where sanchez will shine a lot, maybe that’s the decisive point i was missing
I like Rossi too, but what tilted it towards Sanchez, for me, is he is an even hard worker than Pedro, with an excellent build. And Pep likes players who can be used in different positions. Rossi can only be a forward. I think we might even see Alexis in the midfield and may be even at the full backs, may be. We never know with Pep.
i think rossi and sanchez can play the 3 forward positions and sanchez won’t be seen lower.
Alexis assist to Messi shows that with time they will grow up as a devastating pair. With just one game, if he managed to make that low header, instead of chesting it and losing the ball as 3 Real players were around, anticipating Messi’s run, we will see much more from them.
His technical quality is much much more than Pedro, who actually is almost poor in one on one. Pedro would most probably be a substitute in the important games here on.
That’s the obvious money logical change to make, also sanchez prefers the right side on the left side but in my opinion pedro is a better barcelona winger then villa is, villa is adapted to barca now but sometimes he makes villa style choices when he should make barcelona style choice, whereas pedro style choices always are barcelona choices.
I may not be perfectly clear here lol, but i just think that even though villa is a better all round player then pedro you still prefer having pedro on villa in your barca team if you’re guardiola. i think it’s the same with sanchez, better all round player then pedro but less barca dna so in my opinion as long as pedro is performing as high as he is he is ranked number one in the barca winger hierarchy.
I totaly agree with you and i love how people are catching onto this(zonalmarking, goal.com…)! The amount of work Alexis did when Barca lost the ball was just mind boggling to me, it was like having another(technically better gifted) Pedro. Mind you, when Pedro and Xavi were introduced Real didn’t see the ball(comparatively)! Now the reason this is soooo important is, that it allows Pep to play Busqets/Masc in CB and have a Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc midfield. All that pressure upfront will allow Pep to play one ball player more and split the DM position equally between Pique, Busqets/Masc(both playing at CB) and the closest midfielder be it Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc (probably Xavi or Cesc). And if the need arises, Pep can always play Villa instead of Pedro and have more attacking versatility, but in that case, Barca will need a designated DM. Watch out for this, its really revolutionary tactics in my opinion.
Oh wow. Brilliant analysis here. I wonder if Pep is really going to play the ball-playing midfield axis of Fabregas-Xavi-Iniesta, with Mascherano / Busquets as a CB. How many possession would Barcelona want, 90 percent? lol
Toronto FC just fielded a 3-4-3 with Torsten Frings, ex of the German national team, as the central player at the back. He’s normally a distributing DM like Busquets with better passing, like Schweinsteiger. The TFC manager, Aron Winter, formerly at Ajax, has essentially formalized what is in practice at Barca, dropping the holding/distributing midfielder between the two centre backs and pushing the fullbacks up, switching fluidly from a 4-3-3 to a 3-4-3. Revolutionary indeed.
Sarcasm aside, there is a subtle yet cruicall difference between what u sad and what i said. Playing a natural DM in place of a CB in the 4-3-3 is not the same as playing a natural DM between two CB’s in a 3-4-3. I am going to let you figure out why.
“Toronto FC” LOL
“a distributing DM like Busquets with better passing,” LOOL
“like Schweinsteiger” WTF? not even funny anymore… so both sxhweinsteiger and frings pass better then busquets? I must have missed something here…
what was your point appart from being proud toronto are one of the many teams taking inspiration from barcelona?
as kibakabul said playing busquets instead of puyol/pique to field fabregas is one step further then the now very classic busquets between puyol and pique with abidal trying to do dani alves
Seeing as I can’t reply to the two comments below, I’ll write my responses here.
@kibakabul: I understand the difference. I never said it was the same. No need for sarcasm or attitude. Playing Busquets as a nominal CB would effectively be a 3-4-3 anyway, with Alves pushed so far up and Pique, Busquets and Abidal more reserved. ZM has addressed this issue in previous pieces.
@john: I’m not proud of Toronto in any way. I’m not from there, I don’t like the team, etc. Not sure how that’s at all relevant, but if you must get your little dig in, go for it. Usually the comments on this site are respectful and well thought out. Did you enjoy typing your LOL, and then your even better LOOL?
Passing does not start and end with Barcelona. Busquets is an excellent passer of the ball. Readers of this site all know that, no need to act like a teenager. However, Busquets also has a very limited range. He doesn’t spray the passes around the field. Perhaps I should have written “a distributing DM like Busquets with a wider passing range.” In his current role, Frings, like Marquez before him, has shifted into a DM but also is the main distributor of the ball. Schweinsteiger, for those that watch the German national team, has made a similar shift, nominally a DM but also an important distributor of the ball.
Winter at TFC did what Aguirre did with Mexico (see ZM’s piece on Mexico’s formation for the WC) and what Guardiola did for a game or two with Busquets (see Atletico 1-2 Barcelona piece on this site), formalizing the CB/DM role by starting the passing DM in the middle of a three-man backline rather than just dropping him back as needed.
Also “now very classic”? Yah, all of two years old. Other than Emery on occasion at Valencia (see Valencia 5-0 Villareal piece from April 2011) and Aguirre with Mexico last year (see May 27 2010 ZM article), teams have not followed Barca in this shift (at least not that I’ve seen), and they certainly haven’t formalized it in the same way Aguirre did and now Winter has. I haven’t seen any of the games since Aguirre took over at Zaragoza to see if he’s continued with it. It will be interesting to see if Winter sticks with this 3-4-3 at TFC.
Brenton i agree with you on the usual comments of this site and it’s quite enjoyable but i had too lol, and yes i enjoyed typing lol if you really wonder XD
so my comment was not relevant i agree, but so was yours only technicaly thought…
and yes there are more than 2/3 teams doing this 433/343 move now,
but actually why can’t i say “now very classic” when you say the 433/343 DM move is revolutionnary ?
also yes busquets is not playing long like marquez but he is playing short passes only by choice
the revolutionnary-toronto-long passing was too much for me, thanks for the laugh, and sorry for the condescension
@Brenton: You sir dont understand what i said, or for that matter guess you cant visualise it, maybeit is because you are preocupied with finding “attitude” in comments.
Here is a FACT for you to drive the point home:
3-4-3 Either sacrifices a full back or a CB in orderd to have Busqets, Cesc, Xavi, Iniesta on the pitch.
Whereas a 4-3-3 “sacrifices”(it spreads it between the back players as described earlier) the DM position so you can incorporate another ball player ala Cesc. Because i know you still dont get it, i will try visualising it for you:
-YOUR 3-4-3:
(sacrificed full back)
———————–Valdez——————————
————————————————————————
–Pique——Busquets——Puyol—
————————————————————————
—————————Xavi———————————
——Alves———–—–Iniesta————
———————Cesc—————————————
————————————————————————
———————————Messi————————
——Alexis—————————Villa——
OR
(sacrificed center back)
———————————Valdez——————————
———————————————————————————
———Alves———Pique———Abidal——
———————————————————————————
————————Busquets———————————
————Xavi———–—–Iniesta——————
——————————Cesc—————————————
———————————————————————————
———————————Messi———————————
——Alexis———————————Villa———
NOW my 4-3-3:
without posession:
———————————————Valdez————————————
—————————————————————————————————
———Alves—Busquets——Pique—Abidal——
—————————————————————————————————
——————————————Cesc———————————————
————————Xavi—————————Iniesta—————
—————————————————————————————————
———————————————Messi—————————————
——————Alexis———————————Villa—————
and in posession:
——————————————Valdez————————————————
————————————————————————————————————
————Busquets————————————————Pique———
—————————————————Xavi———————————————
————————————————————————————————————
—————————————————————————————Abidal—
——————————Cesc——————————————————————
———————————————————————Iniesta——————
——Alves—————————————————————————————
————————————————————————————————————
—————————————————Messi——————————————
————Alexis——————————————————Pedro———
Now you can notice that there is a back line of Busquets, Xavi, Pique.
Midfield of Alves, Cesc, Iniesta, Abidal.
And an attack of Alexis, Messi, Pedro.
So please can you spot the difference?
@kibakabul: Once again, I never said they were the same, I never said there were no differences, I understand the difference, and so on.
@Brenton: “The TFC manager, Aron Winter, formerly at Ajax, has essentially formalized what is in practice at Barca, dropping the holding/distributing midfielder between the two centre backs and pushing the fullbacks up, switching fluidly from a 4-3-3 to a 3-4-3. Revolutionary indeed.”
You said this which clearly shows you didnt understand what I meant and you equalled it with something that is around at Barca for atleast 2 years and a half if not more. PS: A DM dropping inbetween CB’s when Barca is in posession is a reaction to a front two from the opposing team pressing the back line. So you see now what you misread/misunderstood:)
Are there really many lessons to be taken from a match in which Barcelona fielded Keita as a holding mid (which is not his position) with Iniesta and Thiago (who might be a wonderkid but still light-years away from Xavi, Fabregas, etc.) ?
exactly. well said
Iniesta and Thiago light-years away from Xavi and Fabregas? How many times have you seen them playing? To me, Xavi and Fabregas are better passers than them but not by a long shot. Both Iniesta and Thiago can and have played in their positions and have succeeded there.
i think he only meant Thiago that’s behind Xavi, Iniesta AND Fabregas
9. Keita is clearly not a holding midfielder. He doesn’t offer the simple outlet that Busquets does, and can’t break up play as well as Mascherano or Busquets. Ozil was more involved in the play than during any of the previous clasicos. Keita and Thiago have their advantages, but Xavi and Busquets are far better at offering simple passing outlets and controlling possession.
Agreed. This is def a key point and most notably for Barcelona. The DM isn’t just someone to stop opponents but someone who’s willing to distribute balls, in part, this is a reason why Barca was struggling with the ball possession.
lessons to be learnt :
1. Real still cannot deal with Messi’s false 9 movement.
2. Ozil has to be closely man-marked in order to nullify him, his goal was prime example of keita letting him run untracked.
3. It is definitely possible to beat barcelona in the battle for possession.
3. no way XD
yes way
no way, not if Barcelona is fit and diligent in pressing as they usually are and Xavi plays.
The reason Ozil played well is because Busquet is out. He is the missing link in that midfield. Specially against RM Barca needs stronger players.
No way. This game’s Barcelona is a no more than 75% fit Barca; far behind the real Barca. Xavi does not play from the start, no Puyol, no Pique, and still no Fabregas. Even Pep admitted that Barcelona is still lacking behind in match fitness. Real took this match seriously, while Barca deemed it as ‘match to regain their fitness ahead of the new season’.
Dear MICHAEL COX. Please give analysis on the so-called revolutionary formation that Pep will field with Fabregas now on his disposal. Any thought on this? I’m certain you have.
The Özil goal reminded me of McDermott scoring against Gladbach in 77.
I’m gonna have to disagree with you on No.3
Keita is no DM.
Once you get Busquets is in there things will change, as well as Xavi. No to mention when Barca has more conditioning.
3- not
Even in this most exceptional case, where Real is clearly more fit physically, playing at their own field, with their best XI, and were up against a highly circunstancial Barcelona without Pique/Puyol/Busquets/Xavi (!!!) that performed the most awful match regarding passing and pressing I can remember in 4 years… Even in this situation, Barcelona got 52% possession.
In normal conditions, dont be confounded. Barcelona will have 70% possession against Madrid or any team in the world, no exceptions…
Yes, I did get a sense that Mourinho was on the one hand trying to show that the side has improved from the 5-0, perhaps as a way to motivate the players and restore any self-confidence that may have been lost back then, and on the other hand playing a more aggressive game due to it not being a major trophy or league game yet, as well as in order to take advantage of any lacking fitness in the Barcelona squad. I’m not sure that he’d play like this against Barcelona in the more important matches, at least judging from his tactics last year, so perhaps there’s also an element of not unveiling tactics which he plans to use later.
Still, though, some aspects which will probably be relevant in later matches between the two include the use of a fast, direct game from Real, which worked well here and put them more or less on top for most of the match, as well as thire very active pressing, which meant that the only side that looked like Barcelona at some points during this match was Madrid. On the other hand, Barcelona were able to finish much more successfully, whereas Madrid weren’t really able to capitalize on their chances as much; Barcelona’s finishing here may well convince Mourinho to be a bit more cautious in the future, although we’ll have to see what he has planned this time around in the league fixtures. Coentrao looks interesting, and his versatility may well allow far more variety tactically than previously, especially with Altintop in the side; of course, there’s also the possibility that they’re there to cover for players that get sent off in Clasicos.
2/ Benzema made a similar run for the first french goal vs Chile, the wednesday before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MiSEi1uoGI
Chile also played with full backs ready to go forward(the game was very pleasant to watch, lots of movements from both teams).
great website!
Benzema or Higuain
Benzema will start in the opening fixtures due to fitness but I don’t know who will Mourinho favors. Benzema was good here and clearly getting to the level when he was at Lyon.
Any news on Canales?
loaned for 2 seasons to Valencia…with the shit-you-pants clause (ie. can’t play vs Madrid)
I thought Benzema had a great game, with the exception of 2 missed headers. I believe Adebayor would have put away at least one of the 2. If this was the case the final score would still not have changed, because Adebayor would not have been able to create the goal that Benzema did due to his superior skills on the ground.
Addit. For all of RM’s purported power and height, they lack a target man good in the air. Perhaps Jose should consider buying Tim Cahill(just kidding…..maybe not…..)
Just like Busquet,Puyol,Xavi,Pedro&Pique were on the bench…imagine Pepe,Alonso,Ramos,Benzema and Oezil on the bench for RM and Barca fields their best 11, am sure you can guess what the result will look like. For Barca to come out with a draw without training or playing a competitive game together for months is a plus.No doubts RM was fitter and sharper but I think all in all,this Barca team will beat RM again and again fielding their best 11. Btw Barca had 52% ball possession
Wait, are you going to question Madrid’s depth now? This would be the XI if Pepe, Alonso, Ramos (not sure why you included him, Barca’s RB was playing), Benzema (also not sure why you mentioned him), and Ozil (I guess he “replaces” Xavi’s absence) were all missing:
———————–Casillas——————–
–Arbeloa——-Varane———Carvalho—-Marcelo-
—————————————————
—————–Khedira—–Coentrao————–
—————————————————
—Di Maria————–Kaka————–Ronaldo-
—————————————————
————————Huguain——————–
Are you really going to act like this XI wouldn’t give Barca a run for their money? Actually, a center-midfield combination of Khedria and Coentrao would make life a living hell for Xavi and Iniesta because Khedira and Coentrao are two tireless players and offer much more energy without the ball than Alonso does, which is very needed vs. Barca’s main midfield.
agree, think GIB is being a bit disrespectful to thiago, adriano, keita, sanchez etc too who are all arguably as effective
come on 3mld0, wake up!!!
there’s no disrespect. They are Subs.
-Keita is no DM…
-Sanchez played a game for the first time with a new team. 2 training sessions
why is every1 hating on keita, he distributes the ball well. and thiago rarely ever gives the ball away. two top replacements, not as good as xavi and busquets but excellent back up and hardly a hinderance to their play.
I’ve always liked Keita, but I have my eyes and I can see he is not a DM. I don’t know if there are any statistics to prove that, but if not, you can still feel it when you watch him. His passing is nowhere close to Busquet’s, he is not that much engaged in the play, he’s not that visible in that area. Keita is though player and is perfect as a left CM when Barcelona faces strong deep defence. He is a crusher. Contrary to popular opinion, Keita is rather an offensive player, not a defensive one. And contrary to popular opinion, not every tough guy is good for DM.
agree with sibelkacem. I would say that in that zone of the field (between defence and midfield line) against teams making a high pressure such as Madrid, the dm must above all open himself to others to give the possibility of a pass i.e. to serve as a exhaust valve for everyone around you. What you need id speed (specially mental speed) for that job over sthrengt.
Keyta is great as cm, not so much as dm, and against Madrid, he is just no good.
Sorry, but without X. Alonso, Real loses almost all the play making capacity they have. The defenders Pepe and Carvalho can’t start any play, usually Marcelo or Ramos are the only ones in the back four who can take the ball upfront. But the principal player to start any play is Alonso, take him out and the team becomes just flat. Khedira and Coentrao are nowhere near his skill in that field.
Look any game last season without Xabi, you will see how they missed him (and that is why Sahin was brought in, to have a second technical cm)
For the rest of the team, i agree in everything (perhaps Granero in the place of Kaka who is just an ex-player)
GIB. I Agree. With barca’s starting XI and fitter and sharper. Madrid has no shot.
I thought Sanchez was better in the 2nd half. Marcelo had him locked down pretty good in the 1st half.
And this game really showcased that Xavi is the most important player to this Barca team, not Messi. I have never in my life seen Messi be so uninvolved in a game. Barca looking so lost and unorganized with the ball was stunning to see.
Xavi IS Barca.
disagree, if u press like real madrid the other team no matter what individuals they are will lose the ball more frequently. bear in mind iniesta was playing, and xavi was replaced by thiago who is nearly as adept as xavi at keeping possession.
Disagree on Thiago, although he is a promising player with a lot of potential but he isn’t Xavi, no one is. Xavi runs the midfield like no other even when pressed intensely but he is much much better at holding the ball than Thiago.
give him time. Xavi age 20 was not the Xavi of today either. maybe Iniesta will be the next metronome (in 3 or 4 years), maybe not. who cares, Xavi is playing, Barca’s midfield is deeper then last season (with a developing Thiago, with Fabregas, and all the other players).
and Barca of 2018 may not be a copy of Barca 2011.
How is it relevant, what Xavi did when he was 20? Thiago at current age is nowhere near to Xavi at current age, and therefore the statement about Thiago being nearly as adept as Xavi in keeping possession, is false.
@sibelkacem
just wanted to say that it’s obvious that Thiago is not Xavi. Different players, different experience.
It was not my intention to say something against you, and you are right with pointing on 3mald0’s statement. (and right to point on me).
Man, come on… how old are you ?? i ask because you don’t remember… when xavi was 20 he was a bench warmer I remember. Never started games, he was sub for the last 30 to 15 min.
Thiago needs time. get real. Iniesta started being good @ 23 years old.
Iniesta was Rijkaard’s 12th man in 2004/2005, when he was twenty. He was the designated substitute at any position that needed replacing. He also made an appearance at Germany 2006, when he was 22. He was always good, but didn’t cement his role in the Barca first XI until Deco left. I think Iniesta was probably a tad more polished than Thiago at age 21. The problem isn’t Thiago’s ability, it that he’s more suited to an advanced role, when he links with the forwards. In the Xavi’s absence, Iniesta and Fabregas should take his role before Thiago does.
I agree, when Xavi came on the midfield looked so much more different. I think messi being sick during the game and lack of fittness also contributed to his performance. You could see him bending down and holding his stomach just before half time.
Messi wasn’t 100% in Sunday’s game. The reports are that he was vomiting on the side of the field just before halftime.
If he was sick, why not play Pedro on the left, Villa in the middle, and Sanchez on the right? Is Pep afraid to play without Messi?
Yes,
haven’t you seen this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGj249jS1dA
probably as no one has the same qualities as messi in the team, and the false 9 role is key to their success and why mourinho can’t nullify barca.
How is the false 9 key to their success, I think they were just as deadly in 08-09 when they won the treble and Messi played on the right. Granted, he is more of a threat as the false 9, but I think Barca would still dominate football with Messi on the right, or without him in the front 3.
It was late in the 08-09 season when Guardiola placed Messi as a false 9 at Bernabeu (2-6 result)
That switch may be the one that takes Messi to be the best in history (let’s wait until he retires)
But what is clear is that his influence on the game from that position is much bigger than from the wing, regardless if Barca would be great or not. He can create a triangle with Xavi and Iniesta that takes apart most opposition. Now Barca makes Messi his central player, relies on him, on his 50+ goals per season, on his assists, instead of being a competent winger.
Till now it has proved to work, we’ll see what happens this season
@ Ran
What do you expect? Messi got back to Barcelona on Monday 6 days before the Game. I am actually suprised that he played. Risking injuries a such, there a video showing messi throwing up on the field. Yet he managed to get rid of 3 guys and score.
Messi is the most important player in Barca.
Xavi controls possession and mid-field. But Messi changes rythem and speed and open spaces, not to mention scores goals, which you need to win games.
I did not know Messi was sick, so my apologies.
Still, I think if you replace Messi with another false-9 like Tevez for example, Barca is still Barca. But if you replace Xavi with anybody you want, and the way the team plays will be so different. Barca are who they are because of their ability to keep possession and find their ways to the goal with quick little passes. Xavi is the best in the world at doing that.
Don’t forget Busquets. What this game showed to me in spades was the terrific value of Busi and Xavi in settling the team and initiating tiki-taka.
right on the money
Your 8th point is brilliant. That’s y, just like the head coach for USA (Jurgen), i have to say this is one of my favorite sites.
You could see how good and important Xavi is. He’s just brilliant.
I think benzema on the right wing instead of Di Maria and Higuain as the striker will be perfect for Real. Di Maria was largely wasteful and is useful only for his speed. While he may be more useful defensively, against Barcelona whose left back is not always a big threat as the right back, he need not be an absolute necessity.
Those who think Ozil needs to be man marked closely, this tactic will be dangerous if there is someone like Nuri Sahin playing behind him unlike Alonso or Khedira. Remember the World cup QF against Argentina, Schweinsteiger was let free due to the man marking of Ozil by Mascherano and Ozil simply dragged him out with simple runs. As a consequence, Schweinsteiger simply dictated the play. Although Ozil was ineffective most of the match in terms of creativity, his reputation as a threat forced Argentina to be close to him all the time. So, if Real starts with Sahin instead of one of the 2 DMs, it will create a similar situation where he can dictate the play. Interesting season around.
I somehow feel Barcelona are riding their luck regarding their defense. They could have easily bought another CB, but chose against it. With Puyol injured often, how long can they keep Busquets and Mascherano to play as CB and escape punishment ?
Di Maria is better than Benzema on the right wing because:
1. He’s faster
2. He’s better at one-on-ones with his trickery
3. He’s very hard working especially defensively
4. His overall performances are more consistent
You make a good point about man-marking Ozil
To be fair to Barca they did try to sign Thiago Silva who is world class but Milan wasn’t willing to give him up (thankfully
)
You forgot No.5
He dives the most of any player in the World, Yes more than Alves.
Why not play both, copying Argentina’s shape vs Costa Rica?
Benzema in Higuain’s role, as nominal center forward with license to drift rightward.
Ozil in Messi’s role, as playmaker who cuts onto his left foot. Ronaldo in Aguero’s role, as main goalscorer who cuts inside from the left wing. Di Maria deeper in midfield on the right (instead of his leftish role with Argentina, i would play him on the right, because my hypothetical Madrid would have Marcelo, Ronaldo, and Coentrao on the left), Coentrao deeper still on the left, as box to box midfielder, and Khedira or Alonso holding in front of the back 4. I don’t know of many teams that could deal with the dynamism of Khedira, Di Maria, and Coentrao in midfield. Benzema, Ronaldo, and Ozil would be a very fluid and pacy front 3, and cause a lot of problems as well.
Absolutely wonderful points. Love this post.
I am hoping Pep will play with Cesc or Busi in the holding midfield role tomorrow. Cesc make the passes to unlock the RM defence. Busi can keep the ball circulating. Both of which will be crucial for Barca.
I think with the current physical condition of Xavi, and Busi just coming off injury, Cesc could be a starter alternative for Xavi or Busi.
great work here, i just read another tactical review that reiterates the points here, can’t wait for the second leg; http://theirtactics.com/real-madrid-2-2-barcelona-guardiola-satisfied-to-take-a-draw-to-the-camp-nou/
Pep seems to be stuck on developing Mascherano for centerback which is fine. He can’t pass like Busquets and really hampers the midfield. But now for the first time I’m wondering if Fabregas could play Busquets position were Sergio to sit or play in the back. Absolutely not his natural position I know, and he’d have to play disciplined but he can win a tackle. If “the best way to attack Barca” is to drag the centerbacks wide, the key defensive role would be tracking runners into the box when Piqué/Puyol get pulled to the wing on a counterattack (where Keita failed to track Ozil on the first goal this match). Busquets does this. Mascherano can do this. Could Fabregas? Eh, probably a misuse of the player.
I imagine Sergio starts at the Nou Camp and Barca look more like Barca.
definitely agree that fabregas can play as a defensive midfielder (busquets role) as in that role people would be suprised that actually you dont have to attempt many tackles in a game and simply filling that position is enough, as in that role you are mostly intercepting passes.
It’s more likely that Xavi plays at the base of midfield than Fabregas imo (Xavi would then be in the true Guardiola role, rather than his current box to box role). If you recall the Champions League Final, Xavi dropped extremely deep to break Manchester United’s pressing, occasionally receiving the ball from Valdes like a center back would. Fabregas is more suited to playing up the pitch, linking with Messi and the rest of the forwards
I would do this IF and only IF Busquets plays as a CB. If Mascherano is playing CB then i’d keep Busquets as the DM. The back line needs someone to bring the ball forward and play well with the midfield, Mascherano is not that type of player that can evade the 1v1, Busquets is.
“The back line needs someone to bring the ball forward”
Pique?
Well pointed out Matt. Busquets CB, Xavi in his role, Fabregas ahead. Considering Mascherano’s play at CB though, this contingency plan seems unlikely to see the light of day.
On your Pt 5)
I see 3 reasons for the lack of pressing. 1) A lack of fitness due to the circumstances you mentioned. 2) A lack of adjustment (and hence quality) in the midfield composed by Keita and Thiago instead of Xavi and Busquets. 3) The offside-trap that usually allows Barca to play higher up the pitch (which in turn facilitates their pressing) was simply very poor until Piqué came in.
With Piqué on the pitch and leading the line there were immediatly some Real players caught offside. This (and Xavi) allowed Barca to controll the play much better in the middle. It just shows what n important piece the offside trap is in the Barca-puzzle, doesnt it?
On your Pt 7)
Me too I was wondering about them not reinforcing their CB but instead going for Fabregas and Sanchez. I’m getting more and more convinced that Pep is going to try a 3-4-3… you simply dont buy Sanchez and Cesc just to reinforce your bench and your options, do you?
With Busquets/Mascherano playing ahead of the defense and ready to swap back, as well as Dani Alves’ peace and stamina, I guess that could work. As a result you would create space for Cesc alongside Iniesta and Xavi.
@ZM: I would love to read your opinion on that (the (im-)possibility of Barca switching to 3-4-3) anytime soon… Given your fondness of 3-man defense and your knowledge about Barca, I guess you should pick up that job… even if it would be more speculative in nature than the usual coverage.
Agreed on the 3-4-3.
Busquets always drops deep between Puyol and Pique when alves pushes forward.
Real attacked through diagonal balls to wing positions, switching sides constantly.
They group few players on one side and then switch sides with one long ball. But, It wasn’t so effective, but it’s good thing against Barcelona, to switch sides all the time.
Real looked much more agressive in pressing then they last year. Khedira and Alosno man makred Thiago and Iniesta, that looked nice for them.
But, Keita is not good with the ball in his feet, Mascherano either. When Busquets plays, and Pique, things will change. And Barca is not 100 percent fit, they can’t play they usual pressing game.
As for Cesc, I think he is only player that can replace Xavi in ˝Xavi˝ role. He is similar player, playmaker. Thiago and Iniesta are more AMC sorth of midfielders. And Xavi is 32!
As for Sanchez, he is very good in 1 on 1, and he learned to play in pressing game with Bielsa.
Interesting to see how they will incorporate Fabregas. I’ve just done a piece on how Arsenal could miss him this season: http://betweenthelinesfootball.wordpress.com/
Opta’s way of calculating possession stats are unreliable could be terribly off if one team favors short passes and the other long passes.
The sole parameter taken into account in their calculation is the number of passes for each team. If Xavi and Messi pass the ball 6 times between them quickly in a matter of seconds, Barcelona’s possession could be up by a percent in their calculation.
In the Arsenal vs. Huddersfield FA Cup tie, they recorded Arsenal’s short passing team to have 70% possession, whereas during the game, it was apparent that Huddersfield had more than half the possession.
Not that it is crucial to the analysis, but I think ZM would be better off not using Opta’s possession stats, because it only portrays the number of passes by each team.
This is my first comment on ZM, and I couldn’t thank ZM enough for the great articles and widening my vision of football.
Isn’t possession supposed to mean
“The amount of TIME one team has the ball under control, covering successful pases”
It’s tough to monitor though. In theory, you can just have two guys with stopwatches, but that still leaves issues. For example, If Valdes hoofs the ball toward Pepe, Carvalho, and Messi, whose possession is it when the ball is in the air? I think it counts as Barca’s, because they played the ball. This ignores the fact that Messi probably has a 5% chance of actually winning a long ball against Pepe and Carvalho. Situations like that happen all the time, and can skew the data. I think total pass completion, pass completion percentage, and # of passes completed in the final third (especially this one) are better stats than time of possession. Passing the ball around the back isn’t as productive as passing the ball around the opponents’ box, yet possession counts the same.
Yes the long balls do make it difficult to measure it.
BUT as i said “successful passes” if they can be measured will be the best possible criteria for possession stats.
Don’t agree with on not taking into account the passing between CB in their own half.
For barca this is extremely crucial, it brings Pique in and releases a midfiled player loose thus creating a man advantage.
So for barca these passes matter.
Possession by definition means, “having in your grasps” IT should be counted as such irrespective of the box one is.
Absolutely agree.
There HAS to be an article on this.
How will Cesc be used and if its 3-4-3, what are its implications etc.etc.
ZM, common, this is just begging to be done,
you have 5 days (or more depending upon the Liga strike action
+1
3-4-3 all the way…
I thought Mourinho/RM was trying to achieve an early psychological advantage to break their Barca hoodoo. Bizarrely Barca seemed to be playing to help Madrid – how many times did Valdes/full backs boot the ball long, and how often does he normally do this? It was like Barca said this is a training match to give players experience – they blood Thiago at the Bernabeu against better opponents than he’s used to – and completely against the run of play Barca scored two goals. So despite their improved fluency, the fact that Benzema is now really working hard and the forward pressing is way better than it was, Madrid could only stutter to a draw against a Barca second team. Psychologically the advantage is still with Barca. Unless RM do a job at Camp Nou, I think they’ll still have the very visible inferiority complex they seem to carry.
Valdes HAD to go long because Madrid’s front 3 put the Barca back line under so much pressure. They had no outball options as they usually do. Look how deep Iniesta had to track back to receive the ball. Look how many times Iniesta had to try dangerous cross field / diagonal passes (which he never does) just to try to get something going. I have never seen any team squeeze Barca this hard – and it would have worked if not for some unfortunate finishing and a wonder strike from Villa.
Valdes was hoofing balls ‘coz
RM intense pressing &
Masc being not the best at ball control in tight areas when under pressure &
Pique and Busquests not being there.
They are the one who most often are given the ball by Valdes from the back, ‘coz they are good with the ball under pressure.
Great article! Keep up the ‘general comments’ ones//
I have 3 questions to ask:
1. Why can’t i post in the feedback comments? because it’s there i want to post XD
2. Would it be possible to put numbers on the comments sorted by time of posting to make it easier to see which comments appeared since you read the comments (we’ll just have to remember the last number we read).This or any similar way to ease the lecture of the comments…
3. Could it be possible to distinguish our comments or the answers to our comments by any way to make the comment sections more readable? This or any similar way to ease the lecture of the comments again.
Thanks.
Agree, hope this is possible. I enjoy reading user comments here more than in any other football page
Me too, this site has by far the most intelligent football conversation. I would like it if there was a forum linked to this site. A forum with team specific discussions and prematch discussions would really draw interest. A forum would work really well because there would be no/less restrictions on when you can post
interesting idea. but a forum with team specific discussions is something like an online community. Maybe ZM can tell us if he is interested in hosting such a community.
if not, you are allowed to set up your own page.
They need a better web developer. This is by far my favorite football website with real strategies. There are a lots of good info but hard to get to or too many steps.
Thanks for the good news.
“The back line needs someone to bring the ball forward”
Alexis’ husband may be the biggest scam artist in California. Wonder what she’s going to do if the feds come after him for his little sneaky trick along with his home? He transferred ownership of his the place to find a shell company he created, then filed bankruptcy, thereby, protecting the house so they really didnt must give it up for that bankruptcy.
And sorry, Alexis, people who have been in GOOD financial shape need not resort to scams like that.
AND, Hopefully your illegal trickery is revealed during your lawsuit.