Argentina 0-0 Colombia: another goalless draw
The starting line-ups
The third 0-0 from seven Copa America games so far, as Argentina again struggled.
Sergio Batista made one change from the opening day 0-0 against Bolivia. Marcos Rojo dropped out, with Pablo Zabaleta coming in on the right. Javier Zanetti moved to the left.
Hernan Dario Gomez also made a single change, bringing in Carlos Sanchez for Gutavo Bolivar, a straight swap in midfield.
Argentina had much of the play but failed to create enough chances to get the breakthrough, a common feature of this tournament. Colombia sat back and played on the break, and deserved their point.
Tactics v Messi
Colombia’s first task, of course, was to stop Lionel Messi. Unlike in the opening game against Bolivia, where was up against two holding players, here he was up against a sole deep-lying midfielder who looked to track his movement into deep positions, and therefore had to be more intelligent with his movement, diagonally moving away from goal to collect the ball.
The Colombian centre-backs rarely followed Messi – with the exception of one occasion when Luis Perea came out and harried him in midfield – they instead focused upon sitting deep, not allowing Carles Tevez or Ezequiel Lavezzi to find space in the back four.
With Messi-minding left to Sanchez, this meant that Argentina had 4 v 3 in the midfield when Messi moved deep, a situation they didn’t take full advantage of. A slight problem with a 4-1-4-1 is that when the holding midfielder is taken away from the centre (or if he departs completely, like Pepe in the Champions League semi-final first leg) and the midfield doesn’t drop deeper, there can often be too much space between the lines. Neither Ever Banega nor Esteban Cambiasso moved into that ‘red zone’ often enough – it was (surprisingly) the latter who did find himself in space there on 30 minutes, but Argentina didn’t play the ball to him.
Argentina disjointed
Colombia’s tactics higher up the pitch worked excellently. They let Nicolas Burdisso and Gabriel Milito have time on the ball, confident that neither are technically proficient enough to provide clever passes from the back. Instead, they dropped deep into their own half and pressed as soon as the ball was played into midfield, forcing Cambiasso and Javier Mascherano to return the ball to the back. The two Colombian wide players tracked the full-back, where there was less overlapping than in the first game, with Zabaleta not a great attacker, and Zanetti on the ‘wrong’ flank (albeit somewhere where he is comfortable).
Argentina’s best chance of a goal came from the same method as in the first game – Messi moving deep, then slipping the ball for Lavezzi between Mario Yepes and Pablo Armero. Again, Lavezzi’s movement was good but his end product was poor. On the opposite flank, Tevez still looks unsuited to that wide role – having played as a false nine all season, he seems more comfortable receiving the ball with his back to goal and moving towards play – and with Messi doing broadly the same thing, Argentina’s only real method of penetration was from Lavezzi.
Colombia breaks
Colombia were threatening throughout the game on the counter-attack, particularly with the two wide players moving inside and the full-backs overlapping – both Armero and Juan Zuniga have been very impressive in the two Colombia games in the competition so far. Argentina’s defence looks incredibly prone to pace – and considering Argentina are generally on the attack, Gabriel Milito and Nicolas Burdisso are high up the pitch, leaving lots of space in behind. Their first reaction when Argentina lose the ball is to back off quickly towards their own goal, which in turn leaves Mascherano stranded and forced to cover a lot of space by himself. It’s rather surprising that Argentina haven’t conceded a goal from open play in this tournament yet.
Batista tried to change things in the second half, first with Fernando Gago and Sergio Aguero straight swaps for Cambiasso and Lavezzi, then with Gonzalo Higuain on for Banega, and more of a 4-2-1-3. Argentina didn’t really get any better, and Batista will surely be forced into changes for the final game of the group phase.
Conclusion
Another underwhelming match – the tactical interest here came from Colombia’s tactics. The way they pressed the ball coming into midfield worked well, and by not allowing their centre-backs to be dragged out of the back, Argentina rarely looked likely to break through their defence.
Argentina’s side was almost unchanged from the first game, and their problems remain the same.
Argentina 0-0 Colombia: another goalless draw
International tournaments aren’t very good these days.
Yes, this is one of the worst international tournaments for a long time.
At the same time, it also shows there isnt much difference between most L A teams.
Since the world cup in fact!
Indeed. Hence argument about Messi not being the greatest footballer of all time because he didnt won the world cup is pointless. Champions League provide the best brand of football nowadays.
or you could view it as he doesn’t win against poorer competition without his barca cradle around him. It isn’t a pointless argument.
Barca without Messi is Spanish nat. Team Lite, and they barely drag out wins.
So its Messi which makes Barca win–in style, and that too against the best teams, that too at the biggest matches and moments.
Hence its not pointless that Messi can be considered greatest if you think UCL is the new benchmark and WC isn’t that important.
BUT personally I still believe WC has no equal.
The amount of pressure present and the fact that 1 silly little mistake(not even from the player involved in-fact) can result in you NEVER winning the WC EVER in your life.
While you can play 15 UCL’s in your career with as many clubs.
Rarity, pressure, players, fans, pride, history are enough reasons for me to believe WC>>>>>>UCL
I cant help myself to ask why national sides tend to play boring football and the international matches tend to end up with goalless draw or a 1-0 wins rather than a high scoring ones? Argentina for example, have the BEST attacking options at their disposal but still manage to draw to a side like Colombia.
Its because, the penalty for loosing or a bad performance is FAR FAR more worse than loosing a club game.
2 bad games at National team, say good bye to your spot for maybe ever or certainly a few years.
Coaches are even more under the fire & that transcends through their play and squad.
Its not that complicated, its what makes International football more tough imo.
Boring to some yes maybe but Tough nonetheless for players.
Perhaps it is because all the players from european clubs should basically be in holidays or preseason. It is a difficult point of time and therefore some lack fitness
Great analysis. Read about the match and Argentina’s problems @ ArgentinaFans.com. Latest article posted.
I thought the Gold Cup Final was pretty great. The group stages were decent too.
I didn’t see the match, but I was wondering how Guarin played. I’ve heard people say he had a great match, some not so much. What’s your opinion?
Thought he played quite well, though he was poor in the first match – shooting too much – but decent here
to be honest there was very much expected from the argy coach but let me tell you i didnt found any changes in the system nor in the playing too much time on the ball allowing the opposition to regroup and most importantly i found messi getting frustrated in the last half hour he saw very little of the ball . second failure for argentina is that you got the best player in the world who can draw the defenses and can create space you just have to play around him and make him play and vice versa . the coach needs to instill the mentality of playing one touch football and most importantly he needs to play atleast one attacking midfielder who has the courage to go beyond messi and play around him .to be honest this is your point i gave this to you .
What would you do with Argentina ZM? Maybe you can apply for the coaching position.
I wonder if Argentinas problem could be solved by rotating their attacking trio, sticking Messi out right, Tevez in the middle and Lavezzi out left? Messi surely not lost every clue of starting out right from his earlig Barca-days. This also gives both Tevez and Lavezzi a more natural position from the club teams. The problem of course is that there is no Daniel Alves making phanatic runs to create width on the right, but Zabaleta or Zanetti should be able to do a job out there.
The other question that may be asked is to give a go to Pastore in an Iniesta-esque role on the midfield and drop on of the starting three in the midfield. Pastore is not as safe defensive, but surely Costa Rica should not be a team to worry about any defensive problems?
I would probably go for this team in the last game:
Romero
Zabaleta-Burdisso-Milito-Zanetti
Banega-Cambiasso-Pastore
Messi-Tevez-Lavezzi
Pretty hard dropping Mascherano, but I rate Cambiasso above him as a better player overall.
Sure you can switch Messi, Tevez, and Lavezzi around, but that doesn’t solve the problem. Messi and Tevez are too familiar with their false 9 roles and will still move towards the ball with penetration only coming from Lavezzi. IMO the only way is to drop Tevez for Aguero, but Tevez holds so much power it’s crazy.
Agree, I think Tevez has to go
Finally you have spoken. It was good to verify my take on the issue with Tevez selection as well as I was a bit confused whether my thoughts were held on the basis of objectivity or bias (personal dislike for Tevez). Now I feel much more confident.
I think Batista has been talking too much on playing like Barcelona and let Messi play his false 9 role and roam freely. But the problem is that Messi doesn’t have the teammates to play such role hence he cant play like he does for Barcelona.
I think he should start on the right and switch Tevez to a more traditional striker, perhaps Aguero (who has good off-ball movement) or Higuain.
The midfield doesnt quite function properly with the forward line, i think Banega has been good but he doesnt have that creative spark to connect with the forward line or provide killer passes.
I wish, Argentina is out of this tournament at the earliest so that Batista is packed. Hopefully some good tactician, who will know how to use the best player, would take charge, not Maradona. By which they can have a better WC qualifier and WC.
But ZM, isnt Batista making Maradona look like a better coach.
Colombia’s pressing was brilliant yesterday. They played like it was a final. They could compete with Barca in Pressing.
Well maybe not like Barça, Argentina made it easier by using two or three touches for passing. But hopefully the fowards will work like a well oiled machine against Bolivia
Batista has an unprecedented gift in the form of Lionel Messi: A superstar player who can play three positions equally well. He can play as a false 9 (his position last season), a support striker off of a more physically imposing striker (he often played this in 2009-2010 with Henry or Ibrahimovic), or a right winger who cuts inside and allows his fullback to overlap (his position during most of the treble season). Playing him as a false 9 is clearly not working.
IMO, Batista should try a 4-2-3-1: Mascherano as a center back, Banega and Cambiasso as holders, a fluid attacking trio of Pastore, Messi, and Di Maria (with Aguero the super sub if Argentina need a goal), and a true number 9 (either Milito or Higuain). The formation allows a slightly deeper offside line (which Argentina desperately need), more playmaking impetus on the edge of the final third, and a direct attacking threat that Argentina currently lack. This formation would also give them some badly needed attacking diversity. Instead of three short, support strikers, Argentina would have a true number 10, a winger, a number 9, and a versatile support striker tying it all together from his free role.
sounds nice. I’d go for that, but using Aguero as striker, with Higuain as “super sub”. Maybe because of his (lack of) height, most people forget Kun is the best no. 9 there is!
Yes, this sounds like a good alternative.
I don’t understand why Sergio Batista is persisting with Ezequiel Lavezzi. As ZM mentioned,his movement has been quite good but his end product terrible, disappointing from a man who was so impressive with Napoli last season.
For the last match against Costa Rica, I’m hoping to see Aguero start in Lavezzi’s place, he has been really dangerous so far this tournament.
As for Messi, I thought his body language was terrible during that game, he looked like a man with the whole of Argentina on his back; maybe it’s time for the media down there to lay off him a bit.
Messi body language is always like that. He always walks like he’s disinterested in play.
I agree with David, Messi was not himself. Did you see the free kick he totally botched 30 yards above everyone? And then his head hung low as if he just disappointed the whole world. It’s disheartening to see him so down yet he’s stuck in a role that he’s not used to with forwards that can’t finish. I feel for him
Credit to Colombia’s entire team for extremely disciplined defense. They put on a masterclass show of how to jockey, contain, and strip the ball from some of the world’s best players without even fouling most of the time.
That was right at the end and anyone would be pissed at himself for hitting it like that, David mentioned “during the game”.
During the game messi was just messi as far as body language was concerned.
Its the team around him which needs to step up before its another exit for the Argentinian nat. team.
Irs true that messi has generally a very relaxed disinterested demeanor, but against colombia he was upset sad, and I’m pretty sure he cried at one point when he covered his face… the argentine fans were all cursing him out (and the whole team basically) and it showed that messi was shaken…. Very sad
Lavezzi scored six league goals last season, yet he’s the main scoring option for Argentina. Put into perspective, Iniesta scored 8 league goals last season, Pedro scored 13, and David Villa 18.
Scoreline of 0-0 doesn’t show how exciting this match actually was.
Colombia were wonderful, they seemed to have limitless energy.
Argentina were lucky to get away with a point.
I still think Tevez is the wrong option to go with Messi.
DiMaria-Higuan-Aguero
should line up front, Messi behind them
Yeah we rocked!!
Great Tactical overview……but HOW DO YOU MISS THAT OPEN NET
Spot on as always!
Argentina’s problems are so clear that’s impressive Batista didn’t figure them out so far.
The lack of creativity in their midfield is evident. Messi often has to drop even deeper in midfield to collect the ball, which doesn’t help him and his team. Javier Pastore coming in for Banega would probably help in solving this issue.
Tévez is clearly uncomfortable in his left-sided role, often drifting inside to become almost a striker, which also contributed to Messi’s deeper positioning. Exchanging Tévez for a proper winger, like Sergio Agüero or Ángel di María seems more appropriate.
Colombia employed their tactics really well and I think they were a bit unlucky in not scoring and therefore winning the match, especially considering the impressive chance they wasted in front of Romero’s open goal.
except aguero isn’t a “proper winger”… he’s mainly a centre forward
I like the idea of Javier Pastore coming in for Banega, I’m a big fan of Banega, but I’m beginning to wonder if his all round midfield skills count again him and that the more attack focused Pastore would be a better option.
As regards the issued of the front three, I would go for Lavezzi on the left, Messi on the right and Tevez as the false no. 9.
I know last season Messi has played as a false no.9 but in previous seasons he played on the right to great affect, this would also allow Zanetti to over lap.
Lavezzi is most comfortable on the left and as mentioned in the article Trevez natural position is the false no. 9
I enjoyed the match. I thought Colombia did everything brilliantly except scoring.
ZM, since Argentina has so many players who can play perfect 9 – Higuain and Aguero, why dont they make Messi the attacking midfielder. If it were you, would you try that.
I grant that the tournament has not been exciting but many commenters outside South America seem to fail to grasp how hard Conmebol tournaments are. It is like they expected Argentina and Brazil to trash everybody else and to face each other only in the final. Even in the last two Copa America when they played the final they lost some games and Brazil advanced twice on penalties. If last qualifications to WC were hard, I expect the coming one to be even more difficult since even “minnows” like Bolivia, Peru and Venezuela are no sure points anymore.
Argentina wont win the tournament with this defence, the centre backs are far too slow to be playing high up the pitch.
The change in bringing zabaleta didn’t help the lack of attacking ability at fullback.
Cambiasso and banega were doing the same thing and one of them needed to start making runs into the box where there was so much space.
And Tevez is not suited to his role as ZM pointed out, Argentina need someone to make diagonal runs into the box when messi drops deep and tevez doesnt do that, need to play either messi or tevez not both.
So far this tournament has shown me that both Argentina and Brazil’s coaches are not good enough, they are both playing simple formations with no imagination about trying something different with the players they have. Its a poor sight to see with both great countries that have a great pool of playes to pick. I much prefer the argentina and brazil from the world cup, to these teams, even if argentina were too open and brazil not enough , Both were interesting tactically and actually played some very good football.
I thought the game was awesome. The game was exciting for a 0-0 and if Columbia had a little more talent in the finishing side, they would have been a few goals up in the beginning. Columbia is really a well-coached team. Cohesive counter attacks, consistent shots from the outside to challenge the keeper in an attempt to get onto 2nd balls or to kill attacks when prone to a counter. They have great defensive organization, and even better midfield press. In addition, great man-marking on Messi was established. Argentina, on the other hand, were not very prepared for Columbia’s Jurgen Klopp style of play. The front three needs to work on patterns of play, Mascherano seems to be covering more space than he can handle, and Cambiasso seems to be attacking a lot more than when I watched him under Jose (arguably not for the best). To add, I haven’t seen Messi this frustrated in a while. Exciting game!!!
If only Messi had chosen to play for Spain…
The heavens are not that cruel and this is proof of it.
HAHAHAHAHA! spot on.
Tactically, Argentina has seemed off the entire tournament. Their midfield is in shambles, their defense is completely unreliable, and their transitions are choppy and reckless. What formation or line up do they need to make a positive change?
You would think that with two defensive mids (Masch and Cambiasso), they would interrupt the attacks quickly, yet Colombia took it to them time and again. I believe they would benefit greatly from an attacking playmaker like Pirlo, Xavi, or Sneijder but apparently they have no experienced alternatives.
Only caught the last 20 minutes, but Argentina are so discombobulated. Playing with Messi presents problems not only for the opposing side, but for Argentina as well–as if the plan is “get the ball to Messi and we are sure to score.” Even when he gets the ball in a decent position, everyone is either static or trying to make the same runs. Might be the field (poor, small and hard) or the weather, but their ball movement just seems slow to me; defenders are in place when it arrives. And their finishing has been awful.
How about Messi up top? Or out on the right touch only to draw a defender and make space for everyone else.
Messi is fine as he is, its the rest which need to fit.
This thought that others in the team are as good if not better than Messi is whats part of the problem,
Messi is Argentina’s Best player and their best hope, the others need to come to terms with this as quickly as possibly & adjust to him not the other way round.
Coach is at the moment most to blame.
Otherwise its game over.
I don’t think the same about Messi. He’s a great player, but he keeps struggling with the nat team.
On the other side, i do realize that the midfield in argentina is completely wrong! Batista can’t have 3 defensive midfielders acting like iniesta-javi-busquets alike… those are totally different players!
Argentina needs to get to their most natural game schema. A more-classic 10 in the middle distributing the ball or penetrating between the defense (just like the old-ones Ortega, Gallardo or Riquelme) and a neat center forward (as Batistuta, Balbo, Acosta, Crespo or even Palermo). That’s the way Argentina’s national team plays. They are not barcelona, not even close to it. They can do that if they put Higuain as center forward and maybe Pastore in the middle… but still, i don’t think that messi or tevez would fit in that team.
This has been one of the most wasted talented teams that i’ve ever seen. Poor Argentinians :-\
Xavi you mean not Javi.
Agree with you on both Higuain and Pastore’s position.
Batistuta wasn’t a lone CF, he was all over the place, he used to come deep a lot as well.
Palermo was a failure with the National team to be honest no matter how good he was for Boca.
You say Messi keeps struggling with the nat. team, look at the reasons don’t eat the media feed,
System needs to fit to Messi.
Without Messi, Argentina is even more shit.
I do think that more credit lies with Columbia. They were the better team of the two clearly. They made more clear chances than Argentina and defended much better too. The captain (i forgot his name) was brilliant at the heart of the defense. As was Guarin.
And as someone pointed out…how do you miss that open goal!
The sooner Argentina are sent out, the better it will be for all around. It “might” get them to hire someone with a game plan as a coach.
Yepes AC Millan CB!
Thanks! Now I know. Don’t follow Serie A much so was very surprised that he isn’t part of one of the top teams. His calmness there was amazing.
Thoughts to share in no good order.
- Argentina is not yet playing as a team.
- Messi is (and some others are) tired.
- The central defenders should be ashamed of their passing errors yesterday. So very poor decisions and technique.
- Banega’s influence is so very far from Riquelme’s in 2007.
- I am interested in a team that fields Pastore and Higuain.
- I am not interested in Gago.
And, I like how international tournaments force teams to throw the boys together and do their best with little practice. It’s like me and the fellas on Sunday mornings.
It is also great to see more parity in Conmebol – Imagine how intriguing the tournament would be if the final excluded both Brazil and Argentina! I look forward to seeing Chile and Mexico again. I’ve not yet seen Paraguay or Ecuador but am interested in them also.
I don’t understand why everyone is running to pile on the criticism against Argentina, and Messi in particular.
Colombia, who many favored as a dark-horse contender to at least reach the semi-finals, has (also) managed to only score 1 goal in two games. How did it score that one goal? Against a 10-man, Costa Rican youth squad. As bad as Argentina’s forwards have been playing, it’s hard to overstate how truly woeful Colombia’s shooting has been. My god, how many one-on-one chances are they going to screw up?
Argentina’s problems are mostly coaching based. Argentina may have the greatest wealth of goal scorers of any country in the world, but you can’t just throw four of them onto the field willy nilly. ZM already addressed the problem of Tevez too often moving into Messi’s territory, forcing Messi further and further away from goal. The other problem is that Batista has chosen to play “Barcelona’s style” with three holding midfielders. Barcelona’s style only works because all three midfielders (Busq, Xavi, Iniesta) are fantastic passers who can alternate between pressing to recover lost balls and break defenses with creative passes. Ever Banega and Cambiasso just aren’t Xavi and Iniesta. They never will be. Eventually, the blame has to come on the coach for picking a system that does not leverage his player’s greatest strengths. If you don’t have midfielders who can capably attack and defend, don’t try to play an attacking style with defensive midfielders.
I think Argentina would be best suited playing the 4-2-3-1 style that has been so successful at the international level:
Romero
Zabaleta – Burdisso – Milito – Zanetti
Mascherano – Cambiasso/Gago/Banega
Lavezzi – Messi – Di Maria
Higuin
Although Lavezzi has been severely underperforming lately, I believe it’s because there has been far too much pressure on he (and Tevez and Messi) to do brilliant things all on their own. When he and Tevez do get a pass from midfield, it’s usually through the air rather than at their feet. Since Argentina has mostly been playing without a central striker to push the defense back in the middle of the field, too often Lavezzi (and Tevez) find themselves isolated out on the wings forced to hold up play against two defenders with no where to pass it, except back. Perhaps playing with a central striker would take pressure of Lavezzi and give him an outlet.
Lavezzi’s silly miss in the match was on through ball from messi on the ground, as were countless balls from messi to tevez on the ground that he squandered trying to take on defenders.
Lavezzi to me is better suited to the team than Tevez but I’ll take Aguero over Lavezzi and Lavezzi as super sub for his energy and speed.
Other that that i am with you on the line up and formation.
I would have fielded as such:
GK – Romero
DR – Zanetti
DC – Mascherano
DC – Milito
DL – Zabaleta
DM – Cambiasso
CM – Banega
AM – Pastore
WL – Tevez (only because he is undroppable due to home pressure)
F9 – Messi
WR – Aguero
Horrible.
Masc at the back can only work once or twice not as a dedicated long term solution. Its a disaster waiting to happen.
If your argument on Tevez is to go by, why even play Messi at all?
There are enough Home supporters vying for his blood anyway.
This is not how you pick a team, Tevez needs to be dropped he is a nuisance in and out of the team. Coach needs to show some balls and admit(to himself) he cocked up and now fix it.
Varun do us all a favour and shut up please. You keep on spamming like you’re representing Argentina wow!
I think Hector’s 11 is very good. A Cambiasso – Banega double-pivot sounds more organised – with Pastore or Messi behind front 3 I’d say.
I’m not sure Mascherano is a disaster waiting to happen. All others CBs are. But with Mascherano at the back you at least get pace (to provide cover for the space behind defence and for advancing Zanetti so that Cambiasso can stay central).
Otherwise, Di Maria WL, Messi WR and Tevez false 9 – space behind him explored by Messi and Pastore – to enable Argentina to attack opponents from left to right, not just centrally.
Also like Higuain and D.Milito as alternatives to Tevez, don’t drop as much but are bigger physical threat. Just don’t know how capable Pastore and Aguero are at pressing and defending.
And finally, is there at least one proper DC in whole of Argentina to play alongside Mascherano who’s actually not DC?
Mascherano and Garay would be a much better centerback combo than what they have now. Argentina have no quality centerbacks beside Garay.
Masch unfortunately is the better option for the team in this tournament. I trust Pep’s decision to play him over Milito, especially considering just how many mistakes Milito has done over the past two games.
Messi just can’t win can he. There is always a “yeah, but” to him. It’s ridiculous. He is an amazing player. He has two subpar games in a relatively meaningless competition (can anyone off the top of their head name the last 5 winners of the Copa America?) and suddenly he isn’t that good? He is overrated? What does he have to do show that he is one of the all time greats? I can’t recall any other great player being this scrutinized every time he has a poor performance. It seems like every time Messi doesn’t score in a game, people start generalizing the guy and saying he can’t do it against clubs from that league or those type of tactics, etc. Don’t ever recall Zidane being hammered for his annual disappearance in the Champions League with Juve and Real?
Worst thing that ever happened to Messi and every player since ‘86 World Cup is Maradona gaining “credit” for single handily dragging a pub side to the World Cup Final and winning. It’s ridiculous. Now to be considered the best player of all time, you not only have to win the World Cup, but you have to do it yourself.
There are clowns on here that even find a way to disparge Spain now. What do you have to do now to gain credit? Winning isn’t enough anymore as people find ways to disparage teams that win. Take for instance Spain. They won’t give them credit for going unbeaten in 50 games because they only win 1-0. If they won every game 5-0 then they would say their competition is weak.
Take Barca for example. People won’t give Barcelona the credit for gaining almost 100 points in a season because the Spanish league is seemed to be weak. But if they won the league with 84 points then they will say that they aren’t really that good because they only managed 84 points in Spain. What do people want their footballers and teams to do to be considered great?
He is only great because he has Xavi and Iniesta around him? Was Xavi the reason he scored that wonderful second goal against Madrid? No.
Very well said Sean, I agree with everything you said… don’t pay attention to what some football “fans” say… its always like that, not only in football, but in life too. Most people are superficial, admitting and recognizing only obvious and undisputed success and are readily happy to dethrone the former “king” at the blink of the eye.
So if you don’t consider Messi an unflappable demi god you are not a football fan. Listen to yourselves for goodness sake.
Messi played a sub par game, get over it. People who consider Messi/Spain/Barcelona faultless are why those arguments exist.
The “Football Team of Argentina” played sub-par, get over it.
People who consider Messi/Spain/Barcelona overhyped/overrated is why “Sean” is pissed.
Someone who singles out Messi is not far from being fairly accused of not knowing actual football (to use your words)
Oh an Barcelona are pretty much as “faultless” as a team has ever been for THis long a period of time,
hence the constant eulogizing, sorry for that, our eyes just see whats happening.
Pretty much agree with this
relatively meaningless competition..
lets see… WC, Euros and then…. Copa?
3rd most important competition…. yes I can see how its meaningless.
thanks again for opening your mouth and confirming that opinions are like a-holes.
the rest of your writing reads like a 12 yrs old fanbois getting angry at mean old questions…
insulting Leo is like insulting Justin Bieber to some people..
now get off the internet before your mommy gets angry at you.
Romero
Zabaleta-Mascherano-Burdisso-Zanetti
Messi-Cambiasso-Pastore
Di Maria-Tevez-Lavezzi
Milito shouldn’t play. He’s awful. That one back pass from him should have resulted in a red card + penalty actually, lucky the referee didn’t dare to call it. Mascherano played as a CB in the Champions League finals, so he’s proven on the highest stage (Guardiola chose him over Milito for a reason).
Messi should play in midfield. It’s Argentina’s weak point. Messi’s the best passer and most creative player in Argentina’s squad whereas the attack is overloaded. So no need to place Messi in the middle when you have Higuain, Agüero and Tevez in your squad (who are natural centre forwards). Messi is useless as a “false 9″ with 3 defensive midfielders and Tevez on the wing (no one makes intelligent runs and creates space for Messi, he has to wait to get the ball inbetween 2 banks of 4 players and drops deeper and deeper and deeper). Let him provides those passes deeper from midfield. He has all the abilities to do what Iniesta does for Barcelona as a midfielder.
Actually, I think the ref may have gotten the back-pass fiasco call right. He was correct to play the advantage, as the other guy had an open net to shoot at.
It seemed that Cambiasso was getting forward quite often in the match against Bolivia, in fact whenever Messi or Tevez were deep Cambiasso was creeping forward trying to find the space they had left in front. From what I saw of this match he seemed to be far more conservative. Do you think there was any particular tactical reason for this? Also Banega, surely must be the most ineffective player in this team, his presence is next to nothing in the middle of the park.
Agree with Varun above… It has got.to be Messi OR Tevez if Arg is going to use 433/451. Tevez and Messi share the same positional preference, and Tevez on the wing is a waste… If.it.were me (HA!), I would roll out a narrow 4312 with Messi doing a W. Snejder impersonation just behind Higuain and Kun. I’d bring Tevez on late as a change of pace and a presser of the back 4.
I dont think argentina’s full backs give the width you need to use that system…
Last i saw, Zanetti seems to impulsively run at more defenders than Messi at times, down the flank, middle of the pitch, down right everywhere he gets the ball.
They “can” use width, its up to the coach to implement it.
Everyone needs to be on page here, If Argentina continues this and goes out,
there is only 1 person to blame, the Coach & not Messi as some seem to enjoy blaming him.
With Messi-minding left to Sanchez, this meant that Argentina had 4 v 3 in the midfield when Messi moved deep, a situation they didn’t take full advantage of. A slight problem with a 4-1-4-1 is that when the holding midfielder is taken away from the centre (or if he departs completely, like Pepe in the Champions League semi-final first leg) and the midfield doesn’t drop deeper, there can often be too much space between the lines. Neither Ever Banega nor Esteban Cambiasso moved into that ‘red zone’ often enough – it was (surprisingly) the latter who did find himself in space there on 30 minutes, but Argentina didn’t play the ball to him.
This succinctly sums up so much of Argentina’s problem. The focus keeps getting placed on Messi. But if you are going to play a false 9 and the rest of the attacking players don’t exploit the space created then there is simply no point to playing that way. The false 9 has done his immediate job – he’s created space. But no one is taking advantage of it.
Argentina’s off the ball movement is extremely poor right now. The midfield plays too deep and conservatively while also lacking vision and creative flair. The other front line players alongside Messi play in a linear fashion and wait for the ball. Tevez is essentially playing as a center forward stationed on the flank rather than playing off the space Messi does create. Lavezzi is playing in straight lines down the right. The central midfielders do not even make forward runs into space. There’s simply no point in playing Messi as a false 9 right now with that line up.
Think back to the beautiful goal Messi and Aguero combined on in the recent friendly against Albania. Messi’s pass was brilliant as was Aguero’s finish – but so was Aguero’s delayed diagonal run. Argentina just aren’t making those kind of intelligent runs into space right now and it’s killing their attack.
The Albicelestes would be much better served playing Aguero, Di Maria and Pastore. They are more dynamic players off the ball and less linear than Cambiasso/ Banega, Tevez and Lavezzi.
Ultimately Argentina’s problem may be that Batista has such little confidence in their backline that he has decided to make midfield a very conservative zone of play. But if he feels the need to set his team up that way – having Messi play the role he is right now has little point, especially when flanked by Tevez and Lavezzi.
Whoever starts a game with Mascherano, Cambiasso and Banega isn’t playing to win… if you add Zabaleta and Zanetti (starting to slide in his great carreer), the only players left are the 3 forwards…
Even Colombia countered with more players, often using as much as 5…
Batista has got his tactics and his selections wrong…
Pastore is sitting on the bench and would be a good fit as a free player in midfield… The whole Messi/Tevez thing is really hurting the team as the 2 often do the same thing… Burdisso/Milito have shown countless times that they don’t fit together… even Mascherano would be a better fit for such a high defensive line (like he shown this year for Barcelona).
As it is, it’s hard to predict a bright future for Argentina with Batista in command.
All this talk of trying to replicate Barca…
Argentine problem is their defence, Batista use three deep-lying/holding midfielders to compensate for that, and hope for the front three to work their magic; worth it considering they have the best player on the world AND some of the best defensive midfielders but this clearly hasn’t work . Argentina did try 4213 as a plan B but that leaves them defensively weak. Now, the problem is clear 1) find decent defender to allow 4231 , 2) right personnel as forwards 3) cohesion. 3rd problem can hardly be fixed.
Why doesn’t Batista try Di Maria for Tevez, since Tevez AND Messi isn’t working. Then switch either Banega or Cambiasso for Pastore ? I didn’t understand any of his changes last night except for bringing Aguero in.
It seems there’s to be a certain notion that messi should be scoring for Argentina a getafe goal each game, totally unrealistic. The guy thrives under team play, starting play from the last quarter of the pitch, scoring and assisting.
If you analyze him in Argentina, you’ll see that he always tries to combine with his team mates, for 1-2 situations, but he rarely gets the ball back. He’s also more effective receiving passes from deep, getting the ball on the run facing the goal. What happens in Argentina is the opposite, he gets the ball deep, and with his back facing goal,circumstances that makes him relatively easy to neutralize.
He doesn’t have a xavi supplying him balls from deep, nor and iniesta to combine with in Argentina. Plus Argentina’s forwards are too narrow and static,unlike villa and pedro who cut around the pitch all game creating all kinds of distraction a space. Add that alves runs from deep all game slashing into the opposition’s defense, and you’ll see that there’s a whole team strategy, that looks to have messi as its primary scorer. Argentina has none of that, plus a really weak defense, non-threatening fullbacks, and sub-par CB’s.
Alright, several options here. Batista’s goal is to unleash Barcelona’s Messi, there are a few things he could do.
First, the entire side could do with a push forward, some bold moves would be necessary. Mascherano to centre-back, his passing is better than either of the current starters and he has more pace. I would drop Milito. Zanetti at right-back, and perhaps Di Maria at left-back. It will be suspect defensively, but their problems in attack far outweigh their problems in defence (or their defence has yet to be tested properly). Di Maria at left-back gives the left-forward freedom to cut inside, and he should provide enough attacking charge to pin back the opposing right winger enough to nullify his threat.
Next, if Messi is to be the ‘9′, he needs less reason to go deep. He needs an attacking midfielder to share his load, Pastore being the logical choice. Lavezzi’s positioning is good, he just needs someone to feed (at Napoli, his role is to supply the goal scoring machine that is Cavani+Hamsik). Tevez does too much of the same as Messi, Aguero would be a bit more useful.
……………Romero……………
Zanetti.Mascherano.Burdisso.Di Maria
………..Banega.Cambiasso………
……………Pastore…………..
……Aguero….Messi……Lavezzi..
Although I think they need a true nine desperately, one of Aguero/Milito/Higuain. Of the three, Milito’s movement and linkup is the best, although his finishing was terrible this past season, I would still pick him to start. So my ideal front 3 is Messi-Milito-Aguero.
I don’t remember clicking reply to your post…
Sorry about that fred, this is meant to be its own post. But to answer you, I agree.
Well said!
This need to put at top so that everyone gets whats happening.
Well said indeed.
Even Messi cannot dribble thru a thicket of defenders. We learned that at the World Cup. If Batista wants to emulate Barcelona, support Messi with attacking mid-fielders. Put Pastore & Benega in that role with Cambiasso as holding mid-fielder. Start Aguero as left forward, Higuain as central sriker & Messi on right forward. Messi can then move laterally into striking position, or drop back to pick up balls from the two attacking mid-fielders. Start Zanetti at left fullback & Zabaleta on right. Pair Mascherano & Milito as central defenders. Mascherano acquitted himself well in CL this year at that position and one can hope that his familiarity with Milito could mitigate the latter’s miscues. Absorb the political flak emanating from Tevez being on the bench. One goal in two games means change is required. Time is of the essence.
How is Batista fielding the same system, with the same plan B, with almost the same players? Is there really anyone who doesn’t support dropping Milito and Tevez and bringing in Pastore and Aguero/anyone else?
It’s like when Maradona left out Cambiasso, Zanetti, and Samuel after they were starters in the CL winning side and his team lacked defenders…
Why can’t Argentina attract a half-decent coach?
Do you think Bielsa would ever go back? Does anyone think Pep Guardiola would have any interest in ever taking the reignss?
I haven’t read much about the tactics but if Tevez and Lavezzi had played with some sense then Argentina could have grinded out a win.Both of them were guilty of too much running with the ball.After receiving the ball Tevez, neither crossed the ball into the box nor did he pass it to someone in front of the goal near the penalty area.He was always trying to cut inside from the left.Lavezzi was playing as if it was a race that who can reach the corner post fastest.If Batista can drill some sense into his players then he might not need to change much.
I’m disappointed by the report’s treatment of Colombia. The names of the Colombian players aren’t even mentioned in the text (aside from Sanchez), and the focus is put entirely on Argentina. The focus is entirely on Argentina, as if they alone controlled the fate of the match. But surely that’s not an appropriate way to analyze a match? The game wasn’t defined entirely by Argentina’s merits and failures?
To be fair, Perea, Yepez and Armero are mentioned as well. But yes, I thought the same when I read it, quite a disbalance towards the Argies. I guess not even ZM can avoid to be now and then dragged into the Messi-Barcelona-Argentina-and-a-few-other-big-ones maelstrom. By the way, Colombia played excellent but lacked a touch of disrespect to get the job finished.
Bizarre :S
After the intro, the team news and the one page summary, I discuss how Colombia dealt with Messi. Later, I discuss how they pressed in the midfield. Then, I discussed how they countered. Not sure what your problem is, I gave pretty much equal attention to both sides.
Quite how that isn’t “appropriate” I’ve no idea
I think that Messi needs creativity partner in midfield. Like Pastore. Those two could combine. Argentina plays with 2 holders and one ˝box to box˝, but that is not enough. They should play more creativity line up.
Pastore could take some off some pressure of Messi. In terms of creation and passing. Cambiasso and Mascherano are defensive midfielders, they can’t create. They do not rush forward. Benega is box to box but not so good. In Barca, there are one holder and two creativity players, one MC (sorth of) and one attacking midfielder like (iniesta). Then you have Messi as false nine. Here you have Messi as false nine with 3 poor creators. That can’t function, Messi is only player in this team that create chances, he need support. Not only they are poor creators but they do not join attack.
False nine do not work as a single tactic, without support from midfield.
Other problem is they defence, Milito is awful, he can’t play, he is out of form. Burdisso is ok. But both of them are not good in high defensive line. That is suicide. They need to play deeper in order to function.
I think the coach Batista takes too much blame here. I am a neutral here.
Not to say Batista is a tactical genius or anything but you would think these 11 players would figure it out on their own, given their respective salaries at their clubs. Did I hear Man City is demanding 50 million pounds for Tevez. Insanity. What about all the hype with Banega, Di Maria, Milito, Lavezzi, Cambiasso, and Zanetti.
That’s the problem with Argentina, there is always the next best thing either on the bench, not named on the squad or with the coach.
These type of players, with their hype, salaries and reputations need to figure it out. If anything this is damning evidence that players aren’t worth the money they make. Their egos and salaries are too big to figure it out.
It’s also insane for a national team to change an entire system or create an entire system to suit 1 player no matter how good he is.
If the players should figure it out on their own, why you’d need coaches at all?ridiculously. Ignorant opinion
Your off base.
Actually my opinion is more informed than your ignorant ill constructed sentence.
Coaches coach, set lineups, systems, tactics… Players have a responsibility to deliver for club and country when called upon. When talent is ample, that shouldn’t be rocket science.
If your lineups consists of the highest paid players in the world and they don’t have the brains to figure it out among themselves then you have a problem. That lineup of star studded players should be able to play any system and score.
That to me that means more than anything the players are over hyped and not as good as people think or marketing would have us think. Good players are problem solvers.
All last world cup, all people wouldn’t stop insisting on Cambiasso, Banega, Lavezzi,and Zanetti, and so forth. Well they’re now all there there and they still are stalled.
Batista got wrong with his tactics for second time . Why he played Tevez as inside forward instead of fals nine . Cant see why behind him was left back who play on his ‘wrong side ‘ . When you got inside forward you need classic full back who can storm down the flank . Zanetti isnt 25 years old and this isnt quite good role for him . Instead of playin so static midfiled Batista should put Pastore for Banega or Cambiasso both of them are doin the same thing sittin deep and passin the ball . what Argentina need is someone who can use Messi movment and exploit that space . I think that Messi should play on the right like the past seasons in Barca . Tevez False nine and Lavezzi on the left like the position he plays in Napoli whole season
. As left back the only solution is Rojo the only natural left footed left bak in the team . In the center Pastore for Banega or CAmbiasso . FFS i can see those things how come Batista cant see them .
So after the second match, majority of us are still bewildered for the exact same reasons as we were after the first game. Batista is really confusing. Did he not apply similar methods of what we are suggesting here in 2008 Olympics to give Argentina the gold medals beating red hot Dunga’s Brazil in the way? Did he not use Messi, Aguero and Di Maria with Requelme pulling the strings? So what is blocking him from doing something similar except replacing Roman with Pastore here? It might be argued that Pastore is no Requelme- al least not for now (he is only 22 remember) but isnt it also true that all the rest three has grown so much in stature to compensate for that? I mean El Falco could not do any worse than the current midfield, could he?
I am clearly not in favor of fielding both Messi AND Tevez like many here. But it is an unavoidable circumstance, the best to go about it might be applying a Villareal type 4-2-2-2 with two false 9s playing up front- Messi in Rossi and Tevez in Nilmar role. The problem though, would not only be selecting the 2s behind the forwards (Pastore and Di Maria maybe) but also from the logical argument that, if one false is so difficult to be accommodated in Argentine squad or in any International fixtures, how feasible would it be the idea of using two?
P.S. Being an Argentine fan has been an exciting experience in my personal fantasy football in recent years. This was certainly the result of having the rise of so many gifted attacking options in the same timeline. Not only did these players impress with quality but also with the flair they bring to the game. What could a side comprising of such individuals pull off with a great tactician and motivator has been painfully left to the imagination. The other day I was going through a such euphoria of a mouth watering prospect of 2014 WC if in next three years, Piatti, Iturbe, Salvio, Lamela etc could burst into the scene, Perotti could continue development, Zarate would get back his first year’s Lazio form and be consistent, Lisandro Lopez and Lucho Gonzales showing their experiences along side with current attacking team selections holding onto their present form, what could the selection from such a bunch of players with proper grooming together gift us with? However, I was immediately taken aback by the horrific that it would come up to no avail as we would have a terrible man in charge who would decide to cut down a lot of such options to find place for a Cavenaggi, Maxi Lopez or even for a Palacio (which would go down well with the mass for his contributions in the Boca shirt) and we would come out with another disastrous campaign with Messi getting the blames and the team getting unfairly compared with the English national side for having ’similarly’ overhyped players. Reality can at times be so tough esp for Argentina fans.
For the last game I would bring in Mascherano for Milito at the back (to add pace) and have Pastore come in to add creative quality and attacking drive. That would mean that Argentina would have a stronger backline and a more balanced midfield (with a creator, a passer and a destroyer.) Messi would be right wing, with Zabaletta overlapping, Di Maria would provide natural width on the left and Higuain would play up front.
Romero
Zabaletta Mascherano Burdisso Rojo
Cambiasso
Pastore Banega
Messi Higuain Di Maria
That leaves out quite a lot of good players, and Messi probably isn’t in his best position, but it’s about as balanced a team as Argentina could get and should be good enough to beat anyone in the tournament. As a plan B, Messi could move to the attacking midfield position, with Cambiasso coming off and Lavezzi going to the right wing (or swapping with Di Maria and going to the left.)