Schalke 3-1 Valencia: Schalke surprisingly go through after open second leg
The starting line-ups
Valencia had plenty of chances, but Schalke were more clinical.
Felix Magath made two changes from the first leg, both enforced. Sergio Escudero replaced the suspended Lukas Schmitz at left-back, whilst Mario Gavranovic came in for Klaas-Jan Huntelaar, who was out with a knee injury.
Having played a fluid system in the first leg that had no set shape, Unai Emery selected a standard 4-2-3-1 system here. The major news was that Artiz Aduriz started upfront, with Roberto Soldado on the bench.
Like all the second legs this week, this was a very open game – the tie was in the balance, but both wanted to attack.
Formations
Schalke went in with a system best defined as a 4-4-2, but there was a complex nature to the system when attacks developed. Jurado would immediately come in from the left and take up a central playmaking role, allowing Raul to move forward to become a second central striker. To solve the problem with width on the left, Peer Kluge would move towards that side of the pitch. On the other flank, Jefferson Farfan stayed much wider, and turned out to be the game’s key player.
Valencia played an attack-minded 4-2-3-1 system. They tended to press at times and sit back on other occasions – when they did defend aggressively, they often looked like 4-2-4. The wingers helped push back the Schalke defence, and Juan Mata often got a lot of space in between the lines – he played a couple of great passes.
Patterns of play
Schalke sent many crosses into the box - almost one every two minutes - mostly from the right
Partly because Valencia seemed to defend in different ways at different times, the game went through many phases. Schalke started well and focused on keeping possession of the ball in non-threatening areas before working it down the right – but then Valencia upped their game and dominated the rest of the first half. Valencia were obviously more comfortable on the ball in midfield, and when one of Schalke’s forwards was slow to get back into the midfield zone, Valencia took the most of their extra man in midfield.
There was a lack of creativity in open play, however. The goals came from set-pieces (Ricardo Costa stayed up in the area after a corner to head in, and Farfan curled in a free-kick). Jeremy Mathieu started brightly (as he had in the first game) but none of the full-backs had a consistent impact on the game.
Second half
Valencia should have scored numerous second half goals – Schalke tried to defend higher up the pitch, but Aduriz got chances on the break from balls over the top. His finishing was poor.
At the other end, having spent the game chucking crosses into the box from the right, Schalke went ahead with a scrappy goal after ball from the left. Vicente Guaita flapped at the cross, Gavranovic squeezed the ball in. Four of the first five goals in the tie had come from left-wing crosses – which was a surprise, as neither side had particularly looked to work down that side of the pitch.
Substitutions
Magath’s strategy at 2-1 was interesting – he kept both his forwards on to provide an attacking threat, and made changes in the midfield. Kyriakos Papadopoulos replaced Joel Matip in the holding role – Papadopoulos can play as a centre-back and played slightly deeper than Matip. Julien Draxler came on, and kept hold of the ball excellently.
Valencia frequently lost possession when their attackers tried to dribble past defenders on the edge of the box
Emery made three changes in ten minutes and Valencia went all-out-attack. They found spaces in the midfield and created some decent chances, but the more they pushed forward, the more Schalke got chances on the break. Gavranovic chipped the ball onto the bar from 40 yards, and eventually Farfan sealed the win. On the balance of play Valencia deserved something, but they simply missed too many chances.
Conclusion
The game was summed up by a fantastic analysis/rant from Emery after the final whistle.
“Maybe there have been games in the league where we didn’t deserve to win and that good luck deserted us this time. With everything in our favour we’ve ended up losing. It’s incomprehensible. At 1-0 up we had the game under control, with chances to hit them on the counter-attack, and then they go and equalise.
Then, in the second half, without creating much, they go 2-1 up. Then we have four chances and we don’t take any. We’ve been knocked out unjustly, we’ve missed an opportunity with everything in our favour. It was a game where we had more chances and we lost. I went back into the dressing room so disappointed that I couldn’t say anything to the players, but I have nothing to blame them for.”
Chalkboards from Total Football iPhone app
Schalke 3-1 Valencia: Schalke surprisingly go through after open second leg
To be honest, I didn’t think Valencia were better and in my statistics book both teams had 7 chances; in my opinion Valencia were overpowered in midfield for large parts of the game, although they did create by good and speedy play from time to time, but these chances did not seem to come by pressuring Schalke all that much.
I am curious to see whether the CL success will hurt Schalke in the Bundesliga, where they are not completely out of the relegation battle.
your comment may be technically accurate, but the QUALITY of Valencia’s chances meant that they definitely should have scored more goals and therefore won the tie – the amount of times a Valencia player was through one-on-one with the keeper was unreal – just as unreal as Emery’s decision not to play Soldado…..I saw the highlights of the game and thought “how the hell did Valencia not win that?!?” with the amount, and quality of chances they had…..
Yes, Valencia’s chances may have been somewhat better, but considering that Schalke hit the bar and post apart from three goals the difference in chances was not that great IMHO. And I think there was only one classical one-on-one situation. Still, they should have scored, I agree with that, but if they should have scored enough to win the tie, I amnot so sure.
It was ‘expectable’ that Valencia would ‘waste’ more of their chances considering the respective goalkeepers it was Neuer vs. Guaita…
I don’t follow Valencia closely. Though from the several games that I watched, Valencia looked very good in general. They even played fairly even games against Barca home and away, created a number of chances, but failed to convert most of them. With Villa’s departure, Valencia may be struggling to find a reliable goal scorer to make best of their opportunities.
Good points. Valencia are an exceptionally talented team with good spirit and adaptable players. It is unjust that they have been eliminated to an underwhelming Schalke team, who is sure to be eliminated next round.
Valencia have one of the most technical teams in Europe, but not all of their players have been playing consistently, and part of that blame lyes with Unai Emery, who has made many changes. Soldado should be ‘untouchable’ – he is an excellent centre forward who has good strength and provides something else. Joaquin has been good of late, but I think he can be sacrificided for Soldado with Aduriz dropping out wide.
It was in no way ‘unjust’ that Schalke won. Schalke wanted to win so much more than Valencia you can say they more than deserved it.
Having watched the CL matches this week, I see Schalke more likely to, for example, go
through against Barcelona than Arsenal ever was.
Sure, technically they are less than underwhelming. But in stamina, determination (’spirit’) I see them strong enough to keep the bus parked for 180 minutes. Also, they would not care to play asthetically pleasing football. They’d simply go for the tactics that work – defend ultra-deep and counter when possible.
I doubt that. Not because of qualities like spirit or stamina. but Schalke has shown some big failure in their defence this year, and I think a team like Barca (“a team like Barca” -> only Barca), or lets say Arsenal, would push them to make one or two failures and Schalke would go down with one or two goals (at least).
And for all that running, Schalke would do nothing else than run, run, run. While Barca is doing: pass, pass, pass…..
Run run run is what in the end every team has to resort to against Barca. Just Schalke are pretty damn good at running. Let’s hope for Schalke-Barcelona in the drawing…
the differnce is while passing-moves include the ball, running with the opponent passing the ball is nothing that leads to goals. Schalke would have to win the ball at some stage (run, run, tackle, counter …) but I don’t think they would see lot of the ball. Even if they get one or two shots, that’s not enough. Not for Schalke against Barca. (of course that’s what most teams get from Barca one chance. Hercules won, but that was not Champions League knock-out. And also: Schalke is not Inter.)
It was interesting kluge moved wide to create width on the left flank i think we will see cms doing this more often. Since wingers have become more and more popular and now we are seeing attacking fbs being more restricted than they were a decade ago. I think this type of player will become more popular than the “central winger”. It will allow team to maintain width while still maintaining a central play making force. If the central winger moves to the flanks to generate the width than you have to wait on a central midfield to make a run from deep to get a central play making force. Its easier and quicker to have your cm to move to the flank in the 4-2-3-1 than have your Attacking mid move to the flank and then wait for your cm to make a run from deep to maintain that central playmaking force.
Hey check out my blog for any one whole loves football and tactics. http://footballphilospher.wordpress.com/
I thought it was more to do with controlling Joaquin without giving Banega too much space, at the same time giving the front four plenty of space.
Not really a “kluge” as you put it, as Mathieu is not good at dealing with pacy wingers who suddenly cut inside of him. BTW “central winger” is meaningless, isn’t it?
Oh i was just making the general statement that i think a central midfielder who move wide will catch on and probably be more effective than an attacking midfielder who moves wide. Aka Central winger http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/12/03/introducing-the-central-winger/
Don’t you think that such a thing depends more on a player’s judgment and skills, rather than the system he plays in? It seems premature to call the actuations of a few exceptional players a development in tactics.
Keep it simple, kids! It’s just a game!
Sounds like typical anti-German arrogance. It’s curious because this sentiment has been seen before whenever a Spanish or English side plays a German one and the latter ends up winning and actually plays better..to imply that they don’t deserve it. Based on what?
On what grounds were Valencia actually superior as favorites? Schalke finished second and Magath is known for his ability to get results and motivate his players in Europe. It doesn’t mean Schalke will go further but this isn’t that surprising to me. Valencia has glaring weaknesses despite being better than they have been in a couple of years but there was no surprise to me at the end of the whistle.
Please don’t start something like this.
It’s actually healthy to get a profound outside view on the technical and tactical quality of a team out of the “strongest league of the world” (Magath about the Bundesliga).
And: Zonalmarking really is backing it all up with his articles.
Except that Schalke didn’t exactly played better?
There’s no anti-German arrogance. Emery was simply ranting that he couldn’t believe his team lost despite the amount of chances they created, which I think is fair enough.
Of course Emery was disappointed. And he has his point when he sais: His team played good or even better than the opponent.
I second the fact that you don’t have to look like the better team to advance. If your tactics are reactive, or defensive or the opponent is strong and you are just a lucky son of a b****, that is football, that is life.
You can look poor, as long as you don’t care and know what you are doing…
But I don’t see any anti-German arrogance. The Germans are arrogant enough to put their own victory and strength down.
Based on the UEFA set-list for this season.
Valencia was #14 with 66.951 points
Schalke #20 coefficiant 54.841
But I get your point. and you are not that wrong. It is not all about possession and creating chances. if you lose, you lose. goals matter, no other statistic.
I’m German myself, and I don’t see any “anti-German arrogance” anywhere. Schalke’s attacks did look way less structured than Valencia’s. They looked way better on the ball and had better opportunities to score. Of course when it comes down to it, conversion matters, and Schalke converted better while having a great goalkeeper saving them several times. All in all I think it’s justified to say that Valencia looked like the slightly better team. Doesn’t help if you don’t score, of course.
Agree with you, also being German. This website is far from being biased in favour of or against anybody/anything. Just trying to be objective wrt the tactics applied by the teams. I like that a lot
Schalke was obviously less fluid and technically less gifted than Valencia. The game was not soo much about tactics anyhow I’d say. There are two ‘reasons’ Schalke won it, imo:
1) They had the much better goalie.
2) They had incredible morale, fitness, physical and will power.
They simply did not give in after the 0:1 and kept running like mad dogs.
Curious observation: The game seems somewhat similar to the Leverkusen-Villareal (2:3) match yesterday. The 4-2-3-1 teams had more possession and more chances, but kept wasting, and the respective 4-2-2-2 team was more clinical and won.
“The game seems somewhat similar to the Leverkusen-Villareal (2:3) match yesterday.”
boy was I hoping for a review of that game.
I don’t think that zonalmarking can be accused of anti- German bias. The articles are normally superbly and understandably written.
As to Emery and the Valencia players I’m not so sure. Some of the comments coming out before and after the match seemed a bit arrogant to me…
But is this “arrogance” maybe just the difference between Spanish and lets say English football?
all this bias: people from England think: Spanish players are divers etc.
people from Spain think: we play the best football etc.
It’s just a difference in style and how people think about football.
Yeah, you’re probably right. Still, I do find the “we play the right football and its the only way to do it” attitude that some (!) Spanish clubs have irritating. (same with the English “its only foreigners that dive and cheat” attitude).
Of course it’s irritating.
But it’s also the flavour, the salt in the soup (or the salt in the wound if you like).
when your team play against Inzaghi and he scores, or against a time-wasting team etc. you think: s***, typical, so typical. But if your team scores the late and undeserved equaliser, the world is beautiful.
If you see football as a battle, than the ref should not interrupt too often. If it is art, you want to protect the fragile playmaker.
I’m a little surprised that neither Zonalmarking nor Emery took into account the difference Neuer made in the tie. Magath on the other hand stated when asked about owing it to Neuer: The goalie is part of the team and we know we have a good one.
Spot on! This is one of those matches where individuals like Neuer and Aduriz made more of a difference by what they did (or didn’t) do, than any system or formation.
Thats the point. Schalke can permit more chances to the other team, because they have probably the best goalkeeper of the world.
that’s a very prone strategy (and Schalke is not playing that type of attacking football).
Some teams play the other way: We have the best striker, we won’t need many shots on goal.
But that’s disregarding that quality matters. not only the quality of the player (striker, goal keeper) but also the quality of the chances, the quality of creating (example: the CL final Inter – Bayern). You can have one big chance or 5 small chances. You can allow the opponent many small chances, shots your goalie will save. Or you allow only one shot and that is killing you.
Don’t think Schalke wants the opponent to have that many shots. But yes, Schalke has a very good goalie and need him.
What I wanted to say – I agree, that Valencia had the better outfield players and accordingly more chances. But the goalkeeper is also an important part of a team and there Schalke was far better. Therefore I would not say, that Valencia was the better team.
And you’re right.
It is very difficult to say whether Neuer is better than Guaita. Guaita has been in Valencia’s starting eleven for only four months, and this was the first match where he seriously blundered.
Der General’s original point is that Zonalmarking neglected to mention the contribution of an individual to the result, which I believe outweighs the “tactics”. “Tactics” are not as important as some think; this was one match that showed it.
Guaita is probably a very good goalkeeper, generally, but I doubt there is doubt about Neuer being better. This dude is easily the best in the world, after/together with Casillas maybe.
The reason Guaita initially came to the starting 11 was because of injuries of Cesar and Moya… (of course, somehow a career has to start).
Otherwise, yes, this match was not incredibly strongly influenced by tactics.
Sorry, but it’s not difficult to say that Neuer’s a better keeper than Guaita. Anyone with a sliver of common sense would recognize this. Neuer is possibly the best keeper on the planet- what are the chances of Valencia’s substitute keeper being even among the top 20 keepers?
I listend to the game on the radio. And after reading this, it was a typical Magath game.
They often don’t look good when they win, they play on the counter, the right wing is strong, etc.
Magath is not a manager who stands for the beautiful game. He takes care of physical aspect, a good defensive work (and that has been a problem in Gelsenkirchen over this season), direct and counter attacking football.
He is a little old-school.
hey, It’s actually Aritz Aduriz, not Artiz. Hate to be that guy, but I thought I’d let you know haha.
Schalke’s approach was a lot less complex than you make it out to be. Without any creative players in midfield, any chances would have to come from crosses; but then, Schalke have no muscular forwards, either ( a curious omission, as it has long been noted that Raul plays best when partnered with a burly striker like Ismael Urzaiz). Magath’s solution? Simply to get more players into the box -like Jurado- and hope they could make something of it. Rocket science this ain’t!
Schalke’s wing-play on the right deserves some notice. In the first half it appeared that the Germans had identified Mathieu as Valencia’s weak link- this season the Frenchman has had trouble dealing with quick players who dribble inside, instead of sticking to the touchline. Uchida going wide of Mathieu, while Farfan went inside , looked promising in the first 20 minutes of the match, but this is a tactical problem that Emery solved a long time ago. Valencia has a back-line like an accordion-stretching wide to isolate Uchida on the wing, or compressing when Farfan, Raul and Gavran tried to combine to create something in the middle. This defense was never seriously tested in the first half. As a result, Schalke had a barely any shots on target from open play, and so in the second half Schalke abandoned tactics altogether and opted for what the English call “Route 1″-playing long pass after long pass into a packed penalty box. This probably worked to their advantage-Valencia’s manager and squad and spend most of their time thinking about how to deal with skillful attackers like Jesus Navas or Giuseppe Rossi. Aerial bombardment in a packed penalty box, in the manner of Stoke or Bolton, is not a style of play they have a lot of experience with, and it showed.
Moral of the story: tactics create chances, but players score goals.
How is “going route 1″ abandoning tactics? It IS a tactic….
I also feel it’s a little dramatic to compare Schalke to Stoke or Bolton (btw, Bolton aren’t really Bolton so much anymore). Just because they don’t play Spanish-style football doesn’t mean they’re playing brutish “long ball”. I think you’re just upset that your team lost. No need to belittle the victor.
Btw. Previously, you stated that, “tactics are not as important as some think; this was one match that showed it”, yet you then go on to tell us that Magath changed his tactics to “route one” after an ineffective first half. Wouldn’t the latter contradict the former?
For the record, I wasn’t implying zonal marking to have a bias. The author has admitted he isn’t very knowledgeable on German football in the first place, but more on the culture of football in general. It was evident last season in the CL when Bayern knocked United out or even when Germany was playing so well and everyone was shocked that they were actually able to play football (stereotypes and grand generalizations ensued) And of course growing up in a largely Latin and English environment in which anti-German vitriol was part of the every-day football discourse in parks, places of gatherings, etc.
I’ll leave it at that as the purpose of this is really tactical.
The question is: How can you talk about “anti-German arrogance” if Emery is right?
What has finishing second in the league last season to do with yesterdays game?
When Emery said the players played like he wanted them to play, they control the game, create chances, and all that, he should be allowed to be disappointed.
He knows that control was not enough this time, but what should he say? we did wrong!
Even if he thinks they played better?
And the United vs. Bayern games last season had alo nothing to do with Schalke and Valencia. United is not from Spain, Ferguson was also disappointed. Bayern was clever and lucky,.. what more to say? Maybe United was a bad loser, to be honest: I would have been myself right after the game.
To comment Emery’s statement:
Valencia was anything but in control of the game, imho. They combined well, often, they had more possession, and they created a good amount of good chances. But, in total, the game was relatively open, nearly chaotic as I’d say, and the longer it lasted, the more and more often Valencia found themselves totally ’surprised’ by how Schalke was out-muscling them and got into their faces, very quickly, very directly after recuperated balls.
Uchida, right full-back, did a pretty good Dani Alves impersonation, btw.
Also Escudero, left f-back came forward a lot. He deserves a little blue arrow, I’d say
I know how Schalke plays
But from Emery’s statement to “anti-German” is a long way.
He was disappointed, maybe surprised. And he was maybe wrong, but anti-German is a different topic.
and most managers don’t say smart things after a game.
As I said before, I don’t see any anti-German/anti-Schalke feel anywhere. Neither in Emery’s statement, nor anywhere else. I don’t understand how that was interpreted into this report anyways. You are totally right about managers after matches, btw.
This `shock’ you mention is partly understandable. Between 1994 and 2006, German football seldom had to offer more but work-attitude and physicality (and excellent goalkeeping, tbh). Having to admit this as a German
2006? German football didn’t have anything else to offer in the final match of Euro 2008. That is one reason why Germany’s performance in the summer of 2010 came as a shock to many.
The shock for me was that a lot people in all countries (TV experts) don’t watch international games of foreign countries. ZM did a great job during the WC and pre-WC.
France, Italy, England and some others were not a surprise. Shocking? Yes! The surprise for me was that so many of the big nations failed, and even underperformed for what were realistic expectations (due to the self-shocking realisation of their weakness?).
Germany was not shocking. They did good, but not shocking overperforming.
Partly agreed. Between 2006 and 2008 things were already improving in German football (Joachim Loew was coach since 2006).
The 2008 EC final Germany lost well deserved against a superior Spanish tiki-taka team. Same Barcelona-ish style as we know it up to last tuesday.
Seriously, we should not judge teams by how they are (all) screwed by Spain’s/Barca’s totally superior approach. Germany put in ‘a good fight’, Spain dominated, wasted a lot, and Torres scored a goal that was avoidable (Lehmann-Lahm misunderstanding).
One might/should acknowledge, though, that Germany started to play ‘modern’ football in that very tournament. If you recall, the quarterfinal against Portugal was the first match (ever!) that they played 4-2-3-1. Ballack as ‘10′, two holders (Rolfes, Hitzlsperger). Germany played fantastic, at least compared to their 4-4-2 matches before. (CR7 was man-marked out of the match by full-back Arne Friedrich, I might add).
To watch the final against Spain hurt, because there was nothing they could do except running and defending. But seriously, the same would have applied to any other team – and still does, as of up to date, if I am not mistaken.
As hwk just mentioned, Germany played 4-2-3-1 the whole WC qualification campaign, with good success and already showing ‘nice’ football.
I have to say, that england played a good qualification (as far as i remember). From that point their performance was a surprise.
But what is modern football.10 years ago Germany was behind coz they just started to play with a back four. Three years ago it was 4-2-3-1.
For me “modern” football is just modern. formation is just formation.
It depends on how it looks. is it nice to watch, is it special from a tactical point of view, is there energy, movement …
“modern”
If Germany has a great Libero, let them play with a Libero.
don’t care, if it works out.
By the way, Arne Friedrich is one of the most underrated German defenders (even in Germany).
I fail to see what Schalke`s present outfit (which is as thoroughly globalized a team as, say, Vialli`s Chelsea of the late 90`s) has to do with the recent performances of the German/English/Spanish national teams.
I fail to see what’s the big deal here. Schalke may have been outplayed, but they made better use of their chances and scored that one crucial goal more to win. We see the exact same thing happening every single matchday in pretty much every league around the world.
Absolutely no reason to get riled up one way or the other.
I didn’t see this game and I know ZM is tactics centric but I was wondering if someone could tell me how Banega and Matip played. Banega to me seems like he could be a dominant box-to-box MF and become the next Essien but in the few games I’ve seen of him this year he seemed off. Is this a completely wrong image? Regarding Matip, this guy is 6′4 but is that misleading in terms of the role he plays? I always envisioned him playing a Busquets role as a deep CDM that drops between the CBs in possession. But in the report it said his substitute played deeper making me wonder if I’ve always been wrong in regards to Matip’s positioning. How did he fair against the small agile Mata?
ZM, i’ve had a lot of free time recenty, and have started freezing the sreen to catch those possession football freaks at their best. result: in full swing attack mode, both Barcelona & Valencia play 2-3-5. i dont want to go all Jonathan Wilson on you, but if you get a chance to look at it, let me know. FCB played it this way:
from top left; Iniesta (Adriano), Villa, Messi, Pedro, Dani Alves-Adriano (Iniesta), Xavi, Busquets (Mascherano)-Abidal, Mascherano (Busquets)…with Messi dropping only about 5m max, linking with Xavi
VCF, on the other hand, played a bit more 4-2-4, but the central midfield partnership moved in opposite directions, creating a 2-1-3-4 or 2-3-1-4, with the fullbacks flanking either Topal or Banega:
again, from top left (because starting a formation with 2 is so unorthodox); Pablo, Mata, Aduriz, Joaquin-Banega-Mathieu, Topal, Bruno-R. Costa, Navarro
Unai’s freekick drills were top notch, especially for their creativity with a team of rather short players on average
You’re welcome to go all JW
Yeah, I have noticed that
Um, no, that’s not how Valencia does it…
feel free to explain then