How Mainz stopped Bayern – in ten steps
Lewis Holtby, the young Mainz central midfielder
Mainz are THE story of the European season so far – top of the Bundesliga with six wins from six.
Five wins from five was good enough, but few expected the run to continue, since they faced a trip to last season’s champions. But Mainz triumphed 2-1 over Bayern, using a 4-3-1-2 formation and pressing all over the pitch.
For background information on Mainz’s start to the season, Raphael Honigstein (as ever) has a most interesting report, in a piece written before the Bayern game, focussing largely on Thomas Tuchel, Mainz’s manager.
Honigstein’s piece following this game also featured quotes from Adam Szalai on his side’s tactical approach to this game. “Our mission was to put on pressure and to destroy their passing into the centre…we wanted to force them to play it via the full-backs. When the ball was out wide, one of our holding midfielders moved out. That worked well.”
Here are ten ways they managed to stop Bayern.
The basic shape
Tuchel is a tactical chameleon, having played three separate systems in his six matches so far this season - 4-2-3-1, 4-3-2-1, and 4-3-1-2. Here, he favoured the latter, with a flat back four (light blue) behind three central midfielders (dark blue). Ahead of them was Holtby, a central attacking midfielder who got through a lot of defensive work (yellow). The two strikers are off screen to the right. It is also notable that Bayern's 4-4-2 (rather than their usual 4-2-3-1) gives them no central playmaker, just two strikers upfront waiting for service.
Holtby running…
The main factor in Mainz's approach was heavy pressing all over the pitch. Holtby was a key factor in this, tirelessly closing down Mark van Bommel and Bastian Schweinsteiger early on. As noted in the Bayern reports from the games against Wolfsburg and Roma, Bayern are playing a more possession-based approach than last season, happy to retain the ball in non-threatening areas in the midfield. They weren't able to do that, because of Mainz's pressing.
…and tackling
Holtby's job was to run between van Bommel and Schweinsteiger, and try and stop them playing a forward pass. In the photo above, he was closing down van Bommel, here, he goes for Schweinsteiger.
Outside central midfielders
As Szalai says above, the strategy for dealing with the full-backs (a problem area when fielding a 4-3-1-2 against a four-man defence) was for one of the three central midfielders to come out to meet them. Here, veteran Miroslav Karhan closes down Danijel Pranjic, whilst the other two central midfielders remain as a double pivot ahead of the defence. This forced Bayern to play uncharacteristic quick crossfield balls, many of which were waywarn and went out of play.
Pressing from the front
The pressing started from the front - here the two strikers close down Daniel van Buyen and Holger Badstuber, so Bayern are unable to play out from the back.
Force Klose to come short
Eventually, Bayern became so frustrated at not being able to keep the ball in the centre of the pitch, that Miroslav Klose (pink) started dropping into a deep position, where he was clearly uncomfortable and struggled to help. Here he drops very deep, and one of the Mainz central midfielders tackles him.
Midfield barrier
For the second half Mainz switched to something more like a 4-4-2, but their midfield still stayed narrow, shuffled from side to side and broke up the passing in the midfield. Here, in the second half, they still retain three midfielders in the centre of the pitch, forming a barrier between the ball and the defence.
Striker drops back
This meant that the Holtby (who was removed at half-time having got through an incredible amount of running) role was no longer on the pitch, in theory giving van Bommel and Schweinsteiger more time on the ball. But Mainz' strikers dropped back to help out - here Sami Allagui (black), who spent the first half high up the pitch, comes back to pressure van Bommel.
Schweinsteiger drops in
Bayern eventually became so tired of their centre-backs being pressed from goal-kicks that Schweinsteiger had to drop in and become a Busquets-style centre-half, and distribute the ball from deep.
Continue to press
But otherwise, the pressing continued. This is in the final five minutes, with Mainz 2-1 up. Sit back and defend deep? No way - four Mainz players remain high up the pitch, trying to stop Bayern building up from the back. At times they rode their luck, but the key to Mainz's victory was ultra-aggressive pressing (helped by the energy of the three young attacking players they started with, aged 20, 22 and 24), and Bayern simply couldn't handle it.
Great piece.
I have a question. Considering Mainz’s intense pressing, would it have been better for Bayern to field only one striker? The advantage would have been to have an extra midfielder which should make passing in the centre of the pitch easier.
On the other hand, though, two (tall, strong) strikers give the option to play long balls if you can’t pull off the passing. This way a high defensive line could get into trouble from time to time, couldn’t it? Of course it is known that Bayern want to keep position and long balls are more of a last resort thing, and Klose and Olic are not exactly the strikers you want to hoof up to. Maybe that would have been in option if Gomez had started.
I think that you got that right. If Bayern did put only one striker he could ˝hold˝ 2 centre backs on his back and Bayern would have one extra player in midfield. Good point.
Mainz and Tuchel are great. But what would have been the solution for Bayern?
maybe playing 4-1-2-3 with Tymoshchuk in a deep position, and the full backs even more attacking (becoming wing backs or midfielders)?
In Germany people talk about Mario Gomez and Bayern should play 4-4-2 (what becomes 4-2-4), at least as long as Robben and Ribery are injured.
Latest news are, Bayern will spend some money in the winter (to buy a full back, don’t know if they need one). I think they need a good substitute for the wingers and all three strikers are not performing. so sell one of them and get a different type of striker to become more flexible and more fluid in the box (or general: attack).
van Gaal said that Müller is a striker. why not a 4-3-3 with Müller in a false nine role (or real nine) and Olic on the wing (as long as Robben is not available)?
They need a killer. Against Mainz Kroos got the ball at the six yard box and tried to play a cross for the strikers! everything is about assiting, not about scoring.
i`ve been waiting on a piece on Mainz for two weeks and you didn`t dissapoint as always…
Holtby said in an interview after the game that his main job has been to close down van Bommel and/or Schweinsteiger as you pointed out.
Mainz are peformances are raelly great, especially there tactical flexibility: the changed 5 (!) positions of the starting line-up before the game in munich. Tuchel always lines up the 11 which he sees most likely to beat THIS opponent.
Interesting as well is that Mainz had enough points to come through last season early, so they started to prepare for the next season in July already. The last 4 or 5 games of last season they have been unbeaten as well by the way.
Keep up the good work!
From a German page:
http://werder-fussball-blog.net/2010/09/bayern-vs-mainz-tuchels-pressing-exploits-bayerns-long-standing-weakness/
Thank you very much – so you even take requests
So now the secret how to act against Bayern is out!
I still wonder if other clubs can deliver on the tactical plan as well as Mainz…
Bayern need to take some more risks in my opinion – right now it’s all about passing, and taking the safest option – they rather send the ball back to undangerous positions, even when opportunities arise, than do things on a dare. Which is surely what van Gaal tells them to, but what is supposed to be patience is turning into safeguarding. As they say in German: “Die wollen den Ball ins Tor tragen!” – “They want to carry the ball into the net” Even Mueller is rarely relying on his whim anymore – they need “Robbery” back because their element of surprise is gone.
Last season a key factor of Bayern’s tactics that ZM pointed out was Demichelis moving forward into midfield when in possession – now that van Gaal has picked van Buyten and Badstuber over Demichelis, who don’t do that (and they shouldn’t), maybe that is another key factor for their current state?
Reg Mainz, people over here keep wondering how Tuchel “only uses Schürrle as a sub” or “replaces man-of-the-match-so-far Holtby after 45 minutes, probably due to injury?” It seems to me he tells both to run their lungs out for 45 minutes. Tuchel is not planning to play either of them for more than half a match in the first place, in order to get these performances out of them.
Interesting tactic, although it’s surprising more managers don’t use it. Tell a player they are only going to be playing a half, so they can exert themselves as much as possible in this time, really giving their all. Then again, it could be risky as injuries or poor performances could ruin the whole thing.
http://www.footballfarrago.com
I remember a game last season where Inter had a player sent off before half time, after the break sneijder came out and ran his socks off closing down the deep lying midfielders and was replaced after 25 mins completely shattered.
I remember thinking at the time that maybe Mourinho had told him to run himself into the ground under the knowledge he would be substituted. Maybe Tuckel is using this tactic from the begining?
For me as a player, knowing in advance I would be substituted at half time would make me work a lot harder when closing down. The idea of ultra high pressure pressing for 90 minutes is not appealing physically or mentally where as 45 minutes is very achievable.
I emailed ZM about Mainz also, and am delighted to see this piece, though I imagine he’s been thinking about it for a while…
Simple Mainz.
(I’m here all week.)
From the explaination and pics, it looks like MvB and Schweini are, at least, able to keep possesion by passing to each other, as Holtby is alone against them. Did Mainz do something else to keep them under pressure, or were they happy to let that happen?
Schweinsteiger and van Bommel kept possession, but were not able to play through the centre (because of Mainz’ 4-3 defence, and a Bayern system without a playmaker / Klose playing the playmaker). Holtby forced the Bavarian midfielders to play a pass. Mainz was able to intercept or steal the ball and play the fast break game.
Mainz is like the old Dynamo Kyiv, able to play what they need to beat the opponent. But Tuchel needs a lot of players for this kind of football and they’re only playing once a week. (how many players did he change from the last away game to the game in Munich?)
must have been at least 5
No, only 2
Hi guys,
Terrific article as always. Pardon my ignorance but if Mainz pressed with such ferocity, does it not leave more space and gaps around the pitch? Couldn’t Bayern have exploited those spaces? I apologize in advance if this is a stupid question.
I agree – I think pressing only works if EVERY player has a good game and keeps winning his challenges – and more importantly stays switched on. If one player loses his man or does not press with his team the whole thing falls apart.
For example, in your picture entitled ‘pressing from the front’ it only works if both fullbacks and the centre backs/central midfielders are put under pressure if they come deep to collect the ball. It’s frustrating, not to mention tiring, closing down a player only for them to play a simple pass to an unpressured team mate. I play pub’s league football and it happens a lot!
But how do you suggest a team gets round it? Do they simply have to create chances out of nothing, or rather, individuals have to beat their man instead of working as a team and passing the ball to work an opportunity? That’s the only way I can see – other than persevering for a passing game the whole game like Spain, and scoring after 70 minutes when the opposition tire.
http://www.footballfarrago.com
That depends on how well coordinated the pressing is. Mainz and like-minded teams know that Bayern may well work the ball deep into their half, but the idea is to discourage them from choosing the routes that lead there, forcing Bayern to switch the play when they don’t really want to, slowing down Bayern’s passing meaning that any off-ball runs from the strikers are not exploited by the passers because the spaces close up too early by the time the opponent has found some space. It is also a test of Bayern’s mental concentration whilst in possession.
Basically, pressing doesn’t always have to be a way to block the opponents’ progress, but to slow them down and stagnate their advance as well.
Good point. Similarly, pressing from a stiker is uaually not about him actually winning the ball off the defender, it’s just to hurry the defender into hitting a long ball or clearance, so the striker’s team can win the ball back. There’s a good chance they won’t win it, but because of their pressure, their team will win it within the next pass or two. If only my Pub’s League strikers realised that. Then again it’s all about fitness and discipline…
http://www.footballfarrago.com
Great piece as always, especially as Bayern (grew up with it) & Mainz (live here) are my favorite teams.
One thing to add was on the substitution front. As you mentioned Mainz substituted Holtby with Zabavnik. Fuchs (the left-back in first half) moved up to cover the left midfield position, with Zabavnik behind him on the left wing.
15 minutes later, Van Gaal subbed Altintop in for Olic intending to play him left midfield against Mainz’s right full-back Bungert (who had a mediocre game at best), changing formation more to his regular 4-2-3-1 so far. But Tuchel immediately replied by subbing out the right full-back Bungert and introducing Schürrle instead.
This resulted in Zabavnik moving to the right full-back position, Fuchs moving back to left full-back and Schürrle occupying the left midfield position. Now Zabavnik, who was still fresh was up against Altintop. This killed any momentum van Gaal was hoping for from the substitution.
Van Gaal brought Gomez 10 minutes later in a direct positional swap. And finally Tymoshchuk for Kroos for the last minutes (with van Buyten moving into striker position, playing high balls to him and Gomez?). I’d say outsubbed by Tuchel.
Aside of Schürrle & Holtby, Fuchs has been spectacular so far. He successfully shut down Müller for the game, impressive once again.
And then there are Tuchel (coach) and Heidel (manager) of course. Heidel managed to sign two good left full-backs for cheap, where other teams are struggling to find even one in their line up (Hello Bremen?) these days.
Tuchel has been covered by Honigstein for the English mediasphere, but I just would like to emphasize how impressive it has been to a:
1) Rotate lineups majorly (up to 5 players changed in starting line up between games)
2) Change formations successfully three times already, adjusted to the team he is facing (as mentioned in this article)
3) Practising said formation in the week leading up to the game by emulating the enemies tactics (Mainz youth team was instructed & coached to imitate the enemies system)
4) Last but not least, Tuchel softly suggested to rethink the current reward system in professional sports in an interview last week ago. Surprisingly no one is really running it as a story yet, nor does Tuchel want to blow it up (got one follow up question on it in press conference where he explained his stance again, calmly).
Anyway, this radical idea is based on his opinion that it is unfair to reward the starting team in sports better than the other players on the team. He views the players not making the starting lineup as equally important piece to the team by their participation in training, which results in the starting lineups being pushed for perfection and hence their performance.
E.g. #22 tackling #11 in practices, makes #11 better in the game.
Now obviously, he isn’t talking about base salaries here, rather the bonuses for starting games, or scoring.
In his opinion, this would also fuel team spirit.
What do the rest of you guys think about this? Radical forward thinking or rubbish?
Too soon to tell. If they win the league, this could very well be a revolutionary stuff.
Cheers for this, really interesting!
in my opinion fuchs didnt have to deal with müller that much in the game as müller tended to move into the centre field a lot. when he came from the side he was doubled a lot by fuchs and one of the central midfielders. when müller went heads up against fuchs it’s been my observation that he managed to outplay fuchs quite a lot. i am austrian and therefore watching the austrian players at the Bundesliga frequently and it was my impression that this probably was fuchs’ worst performance so far for mainz.
nevertheless i agree that he has had a good season so far. i think his offensive work is much better than his defensive one though (spot on crosses and free kicks!!)
That theory of his is also the anti-thesis of van Gaal’s who seems to favor a strict starting eleven and doesn’t rotate at all. In the modern game it’s absolutely crucial to have players who can come in and fit in naturally without compromising the key principles laid and carried out by the starting eleven.
van gaal’s arrogance has cost Bayern in the summer as I don’t think they could have done much of anything to win against Mainz who simply had their number tactically. I don’t even think they would have saved themselves with Ribery and Robben purely because van gaal’s retention based philosophy is too narrow and completely restricts them from having any kind of adaptive tactics. And they are simply put tactically inflexible. They always take the same approach going forward and they also lack the man on top or players who will make runs into the box. They have become more of an opportunistic side but overly cautious. Consequently it also hurt the confidence of many of the side’s players.
I think the difference between Bayern and Mainz or van Gaal and Tuchel is that Tuchel has a working team and van Gaal is still in a searching process. Is squad rotation a good idea when your teams is not performing? No.
A other point is the fact that Tuchel is disposed to change his team, depending on the opponent. Van Gaal is not (and they are big ego Bayern, “Mia san Mia …), and I understand why.
van Gaal always will have problems with managers like Mourinho or Tuchel, managers who change their team and strategy if they realise the opponent is better or has a weakness. Van Gaal says: We have to know the weakness of our opponent, so it will be easier to play OUR game. But he is not willed to give his style, his philosophy up. If van Gaal’s football is working, it is a joy to watch. If it doesn’t work, there will be teams like Mainz who destroy your game. Like Inter destroyed Barca. (It is not always the big fight of two great teams like Chelsea vs. Barca)
But, I think if Bayern would have been at 100% (or near), they would have beaten Mainz easy.
Good point hwk.
Zonal Marking at its best.
I was hoping you’d get round to covering Mainz after reading the same Honigstein piece you linked to.
A question for you ZM: would you agree that the likes of Tuchel’s Mainz, Bielsa’s Chile and (to a lesser extent) Holloway’s Blackpool represent a new school of thought in getting the best out of smaller/lesser teams against the football giants?
Since my pre-1996 football knowledge is severely limited (besides what Jonathan Wilson has written), I appreciate that I could be totally wrong in supposing this is a new development.
That said, it seems to me that a playing philosophy based on high energy, aggressive pressing, short passing and an adventurous shape is a great method of getting the best out of low-budget sides against quality opposition. It has the added bonus of making some highly entertaining fixtures.
and West Brom against Arsenal
the problem is that if the opposition play well and/or your team is just a little bit subpar, it can lead to terrible results. Wigan is the best example of this – they’ve gotten some great results (eg. 3-2 over Arsenal last season) but they’ve also had some games where they just fell apart (eg. 8-1 to Spurs).
Any plans for a piece of Vfl Wolfsburg?? They lost their opening 3 games, changed formations and won their next 3. A masterpiece by Stevie Mc or did he just blunder into it??
Cheers
Probably no masterpiece. He just did what was reasonable: switching back to the system that made Wolfsburg win the league in 2009 (i.e. 4-4-2 with a midfield diamond).
ZM, you’re spoiling us now! Do you see it as a future trend though, players becoming increasingly tactically astute? We’ve seen it with Uruguay and Chile in the World Cup, especially the latter, reacting and proacting to their oppositions’ game.
Reading some of the comments above, Tuchel seems to be an interesting character worth doing a bit of background research on. Its always refreshing to see up and coming football managers who are innovating rather than immitating.
you wouldn’t mind a double German-Spanish encounter, would you? Sevilla-Borussia Dortmund, Atletico-Bayer Leverkusen? I doubt we’ll see negative football
Re: your question, I hope so. Some managers seem to see switching shapes to suit the opposition as a form of weakness, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be about covering your back, it can also be about exploiting the opponents’ weaknesses.
BTW, any feedback on this format of article – good, bad? It’s nice to mix things up and do things a little differently for a change, and I know peple like the ‘annotated’ pictures.
If it’s a thumbs up, will do more like this!
annotated pics = good. always useful to see what you’re talking about – a picture tells a thousand words.
http://www.footballfarrago.com
Really like this type of article and the way the whole game is broken down from one side.
I think this worked really well in this case, as it featured a game that was played four days ago, so even the ones that watched it, likely won’t have it all memorized anymore.
Additionally, the annotated pics should be a lot easier to follow for those that didn’t get to watch the game at all. As there are many international fans lurking here, especially after the great world cup coverage, this should be a useful format to mix it up once in a while with less popular games.
Agree completely.
It’s a great format, the annotated pics are really helpful.
Describing the trends or tactics in text sometimes doesn’t get the message across, whereas the annotated pics always does.
It’s a great format, the annotated pics are really helpful.
Describing the trends or tactics in text sometimes doesn’t get the message across, whereas the annotated pics always does.
Can add to an earlier request for a page (generally) showing how the different formations line up against each other & which is stronger – eg. 4-4-2 v 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 v 5-4-1 etc etc?
Definitely worth the wait!
Great article..should have included a bit on how Mainze attacked..although the article is mainly on how to stop Bayern, a short description on how Mainze attacked would have made the article comprehensive..jus an opinion though..
Great structure. But I would still like the formation diagram which summarizes everything clearly.
I thoroughly enjoy your style of tactical reports, especially with added annotated pictures. Great job! I’d love to see more of it!
Is their coach, Adam Szalai, any relation to the striker of the same name?
http://www.footballfarrago.com
Do you need to add this link at the end of your comment? It isn’t relevant to the topic and you already have a link to your website in your nick. This is spam.
Indeed. The name links to the website, no more please.
OK sorry, only just saw this after posting another one above. Won’t happen again! Didn’t realise the name was a link in itself.
Think Mainz won again at the weekend didn’t they?
Regarding your question, the use of the quote might have been a bit misleading. Adam Szalai is the striker, and he was the one quoted.
Thomas Tuchel is the manager of FSV Mainz 05. The Director of Football would be Christian Heidel.
To add a bit of clarification regarding the term manager though:
In Germany, almost all teams seperate between two key positions positions.
One is called (Chef-)’Trainer’, direct translation would be (head) coach, but essentially in the UK this position is essentially labeled ‘manager’. This person is responsible for overseeing training, developing tactics, selecting the starting eleven, etc. So in German terms, we call Tuchel “trainer”, you would call him the manager.
Now for the second position, Germans label it “manager”, this person is mainly responsible for negotiating transfers & contracts, so basically the business side of things. As I understand, this position would be what a General Manager would be in American sports, according to Wikipedia, the closest in the UK might be the Director of football in Europe. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_football )
What does that all mean? If you read translations (e.g. via google translate), watch out for mix ups between those terms.
Ah, interesting. Seems like they do it differently in a few countries. I’ve never understood Spain’s method of having a chairman (I think?) who buys players, leaving the manager to basically be head coach. How can he build ‘his’ team with payers he hasn’t picked himself? What are your thoughts on this?
Dear ZM, you explained expertly how Mainz managed to stop Bayern but I am wondering, giving all the energy and endeavour they put into tha,t how did they manage to score and twice at that?
The goals are in the video, first one is at 1:30 (great assist by Holtby), second goal is at 4:10.
Mainz also scored a funny own goal for the 1:1 equalizer at 2:43.
Btw, Holtby is the current German U-21 captain and only on loan from Schalke 04, Schürrle is also playing in the U21 and will join Bayer Leverkusen next season. What might be interesting to English fans is that he could technically play for England as he has not not played for Germany’s senior team yet. However, Löw acknowledged wanting to give both Holtby & Schürrle a chance in the future, hinting at the friendly against Sweden in November.
Great article, and great quality in the comments, this has really become my favorite football analysis site, ZM! Thx for all your insights into tactics. As i live in Mainz and have been following the club since mid 90’s during ugly 2.league times, i thought it would be only a matter of time until you feature Mainz ’cause of their actual winning-streak.
I remember thinking to myself until the end of transfer period ‘why does Tuchel buy so many midfielders’, now it all makes sense. He just needs them for his intense pressing, and his ruthless rotating. A rolemodel indeed!
It’s really great to see a young coach like Tuchel have the courage to stick to his pressing in an away match at Bayern. And it worked because van Buyten, Badstuber and van Bommel don’t have the technical abilities on the ball you would expect from defense players in a European top team. They got away with it for a long time last season, mostly because of the exceptional attacking skills of Robben, Ribery and Müller, but without these players and their movements off-ball they’re back to the slow build-up of previous years, for now.
Great article as always, but I would like some mention to the fact that Van Buyten is an unforgivable central defender.
Great work, ZM. Found you during the WM & I’m really glad I did.
Iden — the playing philosophy you mention, high energy, etc, can be a very effective system, obviously, for smaller teams to employ. The problem for small teams is that they are small teams. This style of play takes a lot out of teams, and w/o a deep roster 2-3 injuries can cause big problems, putting a greater burden on a smaller pool of players. That’s why many smaller teams rely on a well-organized defense, w/one up top, & hope to score on the break or from set plays. You don’t wear out your smaller squad playing at a slower tempo. But then Mainz don’t have the burden of European competition. That in itself can be the downfall of a good team w/a small squad.
Mati — “future trend though, players becoming increasingly tactically astute?” — That future has been Serie A for some time now. Italian players are schooled in tactics from an early age, and are comfortable changing formations/tactics each week, tailored to that week’s opponent. As more & more teams acroos the continent have realized, it’s a good way to attempt to level the field when playing superior opponents. Your team isn’t going to “out-skill” the superstar team, but you can out-think them. Teams on smaller budgets can have a good deal of success with intelligent preparation. Sampdoria last season are a good example.
At the same time, there are coaches in Italy who seem to rely on one formation (Del Neri, 4-4-2, Zacccheroni 3-4-3, van Gaal 4-3-3,) though they use variations on the theme when appropriate. So what do I know?
For a long time, pretty much everyone in Germany played 4-4-2. In Netherlands it was 4-3-3. Those days are pretty much over (at least in Germany.) If your team is wedded to one formation there’s a good chance a clever opponent w/time to prepare can punch you in the nose. Which could explain Mainz beating Bayern.
David, some great points here.
I think it’s also important to remember that tactics aren’t just formations on the pitch (team responsibility) but also how to play each position (personal responsibility) this is where Serie A is stronger than leagues like the Premiership.
I’ve seen Anton Ferdinand being linked with Palermo. I’d give him 6 months tops…
Excellent article, probably your best since your analysis of Guardiola’s alternate formation last spring. This weakness of Bayern’s really hasn’t been exposed like this since Barca thrashed them during the Sextuple season. That game, Barca simply decided to vertically press from the outset (like away vs Arsenal last year, except they converted their chances), and Eto’o, Henry, and Messi spent the entire game strolling around the final third looking for shots. Distribution from the keeper is vital for all teams, and passing center backs and defensive midfielders are vital for possession based football. Disrupting them can lead to disastrous results.
This (brilliant) idea of planning to play Holtby for only a half so he can run his legs off reminds me of American basketball, where you have free substitution and therefore can bring in players to spend all their energy in just a few minutes if you wanted to. Last year, ESPN’s Bill Simmons and The New Yorker’s Malcolm Gladwell had a fascinating exchange of emails, and one of the things Gladwell talks about is how Rick Pitino got far more out than expected of his college teams’ limited talents by having them run a full court press. Now college teams do use a full court press sometimes, but it’s non-existent in the NBA. Still, when Pitino got to the Boston Celtics in 97-98, who were woeful at the time, he instituted the press and got far better results than expected. But the key was that he had a bunch of young and hungry no-names. As soon as his players got fat contracts, there was no way he could get them to put their egos aside and runs their legs off in order to press. One guy with too much ego to press ruins the whole scheme.
That’s Gladwell’s and Simmons’s analysis of why you have no pressing in the NBA, anyway. By the way, I do think Gladwell tends in general to oversimplify complex issues, and not just sporting ones. But if we apply their analysis to Mainz, it would say that Tuchel needs two ingredients to make this work: 1) a bunch of young, hungry, ego-free players, and 2) a deep bench. And their analysis would say that as soon as Tuchel goes to a team with a little more status than Mainz, and therefore has players with a little more pedigree/ego, this system will fail.
Don’t mean to steer the discussion away from tactics and towards psychological analysis of players’ egos, but it seemed relevant, so I figured it’s ok to post it.
A link to the Simmons/Gladwell exchange:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090513/part2
Basketball would be a different game with limited substitutions. and I think more pressing would be great to watch.
rivalmantra — Mourinho’s team is the exception that proves the rule, apparently, so far as getting a team full of “status” players to set aside their egos. Perhaps he’s no great shakes at tactics, but great at getting players to check their egos at the door. Maybe Tuchel’s the next Mourinho! Hopefully a Mourinho w/o the disagreeable personality.
Dutt at Freiburg might be another one to watch – another young coach tactically astute. He mostly played 4-1-4-1 last season, but has played around with a christmas tree formation this year – some call it a diamond with a double head. Unfortunately his team lacks a playmaker with Holtby’s skills (who could be the next Mesut Özil?)
One thing that the article doesen’t mention, what do Mainz when in possession? I would guess that if they win the ball high up the pich, they counter, but when the oposition have all players behind the ball, what do they do then? Long ball, outplay, keep possession (rest)?
Any Mainz players who are especially fast, good in the air etc. that they use in their attacking play?
We have good ball handlers in the centre, also quick players like Holtby and Schürrle. In front we have two srikers, who are part of build-up play, so we can both: counter and possession play, you could see it well today against Hoffenheim (4:2 win).
ZM, Just curious. Would it work if one of Van Bommel or Schweinsteiger get replaced by Kroos? I doubt Kroos’ position becoz he seems so static. What if Bayern use a front-lying-destroyer (which I think will be a future trend) against teams who press from the front than from their back?
One more thing — didn’t Paraguay do something like this in the WC against Spain? Change 6 players from the eighth-finals against Japan to the quarter-final against Spain? They didn’t really press like Mainz on the field, so the comparison isn’t exact. But they did do this platoon-subbing from game to game that Mainz does. Coaches are finally figuring out how to maximize the use of a squad of 20+ for twice-weekly games.
Small update: Mainz just won game #7 against 1899 Hoffenheim. Great game once again, ended 4:2.
This means Mainz equalized the Bundesliga starting record. Bayern & Kaiserslautern were the only other teams so far that managed to win seven games in a row at the start of the Bundesliga. The next game will be at home again – against Hamburg in two weeks.
Financial fact: If Mainz would get just 40 points this season, the team would cost 14.5 million Euro in salaries. Including staff, it would be 17 million.
NiWa – Great to see isn’t it! Do you think that they are similar to Hoffenheim when they first came up or are they a bit stronger than that? As a Reading fan was also happy to see Sigurdsson score.
Really liked this quote from Tuchel after the game.
“We improved in the second half and threatened often but Hoffenheim were tough. I never thought about the record during the game and even now it is not an issue for me.”
Tuchel is always quotable. Smart and nice guy who deserves all the attention he is getting. I hope his story will open doors for more talented young coaches.
I would say they are stronger as a team than Hoffenheim back then. Having said that, as much as Tuchel is utilizing his full squad, he will have to rely on current standout performers like Holtby & Schürrle.
Hoffenheims fabulous debut season start back then came to an abrupt halt when Ibisevic got injured. (Wikipedia: “During the first half of Hoffenheim’s debut season in the top flight, Ibišević recorded 18 goals and 7 assists in 17 games, making him the league’s top scorer before he was injured.”).
I don’t think Mainz would fall apart like Hoffenheim did, but long-time injuries would be hard to cope with.
It is hard to predict these things, but statistically speaking, Mainz is 10 points ahead of their last regular season at this point. Adding those 10 points to their last season finish would have meant 57 points and finishing 6th. 6th means qualification for UEFA Europa League. This is now a much deserved outlook and realistic goal for Mainz, though officially they will do the ‘week to week’-thing.
I picked Bayern, Hamburg, Wolfsburg for top 3 at start of season. They are currently coming in at 11 (game on sunday), 7 & 8 so far.
The team that has looked best so far outside of Mainz in the Bundesliga is Dortmund who will be playing against Bayern tomorrow. Dortmund is on a five game winning streak.
If I had to pick again, I’d go with my original three Bayern, Hamburg, Wolfsburg and add Dortmund, Mainz and Leverkusen for top 6. This is hardly rocket science as all 6 teams finished top 9 last year.
Leverkusen is missing key players from injury, but their roster is strong this year and they started solid.
The three teams among top 9 last year that I have ommited are Bremen, Schalke & Stuttgart.
Bremen is struggling with injuries to key players, Schalke with too many roster changes. Both teams will pick it up big time (after exiting CL), but I have my doubts they will make it back to the top 6 in the Bundesliga in time.
Stuttgart is in big trouble currently. Though it imitates their start last season I am not seeing a similar turn around this time. They will likely stay in the bottom 9.
I think Hoffenheim will be replacing Stuttgart in the top 9 instead.
Now having said all that, I was also pretty convinced Hannover would get relegated. They are sitting strong at position #3 right now. So take my predictions with a grain of salt ;=)
Interesting about the Bundesliga starting record, both (Bayern and K’lautern) didn’t finish with winning the Championchip. In both seasons Borussia Dortmund won the league, and they are doing pretty good so far this season.
Not surprised that Bayern lost through the tactics Mainz used. Though Bayern play possesion football their style of possesion football resembles more of Arsenal than Barca. I’ve seen them play a few times because just like Arsenal Bayern play good football but their defence is notoriously horrid. badstuber has been exposed defensively a few times while Demichelis -though looking imposing is actually highly error prone. It appears that Bayern is overly reliant in Ribery and Robben. Their poor form in the opening of this Bundesliga season stems from the absence of Robben and Ribery due to injuries – without them, especially Robben Bayern have looked really toothless.
And Bayern’s players aren’t as versatile and lack the understanding Barca’s players have to respond when pressed in midfield
football farrago?
Yes?