Spain 1-0 Holland: Iniesta settles a tight game
The starting line-ups
Spain are the World Champions. They were the better side and played a more positive, cohesive brand of football throughout.
There were no surprises when the team line-ups were announced just over an hour before kick-off, they were as predicted in the preview. Vicente del Bosque kept with the side that beat Germany in the semi-final, meaning Pedro Rodriguez started ahead of Fernando Torres. Holland, meanwhile, welcomed back Gregory van der Wiel and Nigel de Jong from suspension, meaning they returned to their first choice XI – as evidenced by them lining up with the numbers 1-11.
There was also no surprise in the pattern of play in the first quarter of an hour, for Spain dominated possession and were camped in the Dutch half. Bert van Marwijk’s side seemed to be inviting pressure, and Spain’s pressing when they lost the ball meant Holland were unable to construct any meaningful attacks of their own.
There seemed to be a shift in tactics from Holland after around 10 or 15 minutes – they started pressing earlier and higher up the pitch, seeking to disrupt the passing of Sergio Busquets and Xabi Alonso – the latter in particular had too much time on the ball in the opening period, and his influence declined as soon as he was closed down.
The pressing also complimented the tactics of their back four, who were playing a surprisingly high line. On three separate occasions early on, through balls nearly found David Villa in behind the Dutch defence. The problem was not necessarily the high defensive line, but the fact that there was never any pressure on the man looking to play the pass. Playing that position, Villa needs service, so when the supply was cut off, he was less visible and Holland looked more comfortable.
Holland were creating little, however. Wesley Sneijder was quiet and Arjen Robben was cutting in and running into traffic – Busquets, Alonso and Xavi all understood the need for one of them to occupy the space next to Joan Capdevilla that Robben likes to work in.
It became apparent that Holland were essentially using pure spoiling tactics, trying to physically unsettle Spain’s creative players and break up the rhythm of the game. Maybe they were influenced by Chile’s positive start in the final group game, where Spain were second best until they took the lead, but the Dutch tactics went too far. Mark van Bommel and Nigel de Jong could both have been dismissed in the first half for shocking tackles, and of the Dutch outfield players who started the game, only Dirk Kuyt and Sneijder finished without a booking. Spain were not blameless in this respect either, and it was a poor first half.
Second half
This modern Holland side aren’t used to pressing intensively, and weren’t able to do it for the entire game. In the second half they were clearly less effective in this respect, especially after Dirk Kuyt departed. “It’s very difficult to play for 90 minutes at the rhythm they imposed”, said del Bosque. “They had a great physical effort and we dominated extra time.”
But the two managers should be praised for their substitutions, as almost every switch had a broadly attacking motive. Eljero Elia for Kuyt, Cesc Fabregas for Alonso, Rafael van der Vaart for de Jong were all positive moves, and contributed to the game becoming more open and attractive in the second period.
Another del Bosque substitution was crucial – Pedro was withdrawn after a quiet start to the second half, and replaced with Jesus Navas. And then, finally, Spain had natural width and someone to run at Giovanni van Bronckhorst, who eventually had to be replaced. Navas’ delivery was as inconsistent as ever, but he did a good job by stretching the play and providing dribbling rather than one-touch passing, which opened out the game and allowed Iniesta and Xavi more space to work in. It was Navas’ run and cross that presented Villa with a golden opportunity at the far post midway through the second half, and later his run and shot deflected inches wide, into the sidenetting.
But the biggest goal threat was coming from Holland, through direct counter-attacks. The introduction of Elia meant Holland had a natural winger on the left, allowing Robben to make more direct runs in behind the defence, and he twice came close to breaking the deadlock. Spain have often looked vulnerable against pacey forwards at this tournament, and Robben’s move inside exploited this weakness.
The line-ups at the start of extra-time
Robin van Persie was playing an intelligent role by dropping deep to the left to distract the centre-backs, allowing Robben the opportunity to make runs on their blind side – once a straight ball found him and he shot straight at Casillas, another time van Persie’s flick-on put him through, but he was eased out by Puyol.
Spain eventually find a way through
Whilst Pedro started brightly and faded, Iniesta was the opposite. He was barely visible in the first half, but grew in stature later on and became the game’s most important player. Twice he found himself in good goalscoring positions in the Dutch penalty area but delayed the shot and the move broke down, but the positive for del Bosque was that the game was being dictated by him, rather than Sneijder or van Bommel.
The other key factor was the introduction of Fabregas. This allowed Xavi to drop deeper, where he could see the whole of the attacking area ahead of him, whilst Fabregas provided direct, driving runs from midfield, both on and off the ball. He had the best chance in the opening period of extra time when he went through one-on-one with Maarten Stekelenburg, though his finish was weak. Spain’s midfield now had more variety – they now had both width and direct running, and after Holland were worn down by the Spain passing earlier, they were now struggling with the more blatant attacking threat.
Maybe Spain needed Holland to go down to ten men to make the breakthrough. It’s a shame when a game is essentially decided by a red card, but considering Holland played such a physical game, it was no real surprise when Howard Webb was forced to reach for his red card. Holland were only living with Spain through fouling, and they essentially paid the price for that. Having used all three substitutes, van Marwijk was forced into a three-man defence with van Bommel dropping back to help out, which then left them exposed in front of the defence, with de Jong having departed.
Heitinga’s dismissal was when he tracked Iniesta into the box, and therefore it was probably no coincidence that after that, Iniesta found himself free to smash home the winner. The goal was fitting in that it started with a long, mazy run from Navas, and was assisted by Fabregas from an advanced midfield position. Iniesta had previously turned down those two excellent opportunities to shoot, but made no mistake this time.
It was effectively a golden goal – Holland had no energy left and were a man light, and didn’t manage to construct anything meaningful in the final four minutes. They will obviously be devastated but can have few complaints – they were second best on the day, and they failed to take their chances. Spain weren’t much better in front of goal, but when Iniesta finally found the net, a 1-0 Spain win seemed the fairest outcome. “It is harsh, but the best team won tonight”, van Marwijk conceded.
Conclusion
A disappointing final, because it was based around fouls and cards rather than technical quality or even a real tactical battle. Spain dominated the game but failed to score when Holland had eleven men on the pitch.
They eventually found a way through when they offered more of a varied attacking threat, and the impact of substitutes was a key factor. Navas and Fabregas clearly influenced the game, whilst it’s difficult to remember what Elia or van der Vaart contributed. Pressing was also key – the less Holland could do it, the more Spain created.
Spain will now go down as one of the greatest international sides in history – European Championship and World Cup holders, and an incredible record leading up to both tournaments. In both competitions they have struggled to find a perfect system going forward, but the key in their success has not been their attacking play, but their defensive ability. Seven knockout games played over the two tournaments, and seven clean sheets.
Spain 1-0 Holland: Iniesta settles a tight game
First, thanks for the great commentary throughout the tournament. Spain’s substitutions really settled the match. Navas really changed the momentum of the match, and it’s clear that as good as Alonso is, Spain should have started with Fabregas instead. They might have even scored in normal time.
Thanks for all your wonderful analyses during this month. I only wish I had your ability to read football matches!
I’m glad Spain won – justice at last. They were better and deserved it.
Till 2014! (Well, I hope you cover Euro 2012… would you be willing to cover the 2011 Copa America?)
however physical a brand of football they played, Holland had the better chances in this match, and though it’s doubtless some will find ironic justice in the fact that such a free-fouling side were ultimately undone by a refereeing error in awarding a goal kick when a corner was so obviously the correct call that only an Englishman could fail to see it, it is still so hard to take.
I find it incredible that you saw better chances with Holland. Both sides had some great chances, but I saw more clear opportunities for Spain than the Dutch. The better team won, without a doubt. Holland lived by the dirty foul, and they died by it.
Spain had more good chances, and if we’re playing the “what if the referee didn’t make a mistake” game, well, the first mistakes he made were leaving de Jong and van Bommel on the pitch.
Well put!
Agreed, absolutely shocking that De Jong was allowed to stay on. I think Webb was instructed to leave it 11v11 as long as possible.
You guys made it sound like the Spanish are absolutely innocent
Hector’s got a point, but honestly, the Dutch were fouling as much as they were passing.
This is the final you get when FIFA lets a team like Holland get through due to atrocious refereeing. I think the referee for the Holland-Brazil match was the 4th official today? He must have been devastated to see his beloved team get beaten.
I predicted two dutch red cards before the match, de Jong should have been sent off for that Kung Fu kick and my prediction would have been true. It was pure joy to see the cheating Robben miss two golden opportunities. The expression on his face was priceless.
Anyway, I found the Spanish passing to be dismal compared to their previous games. Also they didn’t playact enough to get more Dutch players get sent off by smart dribbling.
Cheating Robben!!? Like he is the only one that dives. Did you saw Iniesta yesterday?
Agreed. There is no way, as a Spanish fan, that you can complain about Dutch diving. Heitinga did not deserve two yellow cards for Iniesta flopping around like a fish. I always wonder, don’t supporters get embarrassed by this kind of thing?
This was a common excuse during the Holland-Brazil match. Dutch fans and Brazil haters defended Robben by saying that he was kicked right from the start by the Brazilians. So he was justified in going down easily (lol?). Well, during the final, the Spanish milked the kung fu show by the Dutch by falling over at the slightest touch. In fact, I’m disappointed that they didn’t playact even more.
The Spanish redeemed themselves in my eyes during the semifinal with Germany when they didnt fall over like a sack of potatoes every time they were touched. They showed respect to a team who showed them respect.
And during the final, I was happy with the way Webb marshalled the players, in hindsight, he should have sent off 2 or 3 more Dutch players. He was lenient on the Dutch.
You are measuring with two standards. You say Robben wasn’t justified for diving after he got kicked by the Brazilians. But when the Dutch kicked some Spanish players suddenly your wish they dived even more!?
Also, you are complaining about the referee from Holland-Brazil. What mistakes did he make during that game, sending of Melo for stamping Robben when he was lying on the ground already?
I think it’s high irony that the one time Robben decided to stay on his feet and ended up NOT getting the call even Webb could not refuse. Surely that does not encourage diving.
The fact that you derive pure joy from another’s misery speaks volumes about your character. I was more impressed with Casillas’s clutch performance (with a little bit of luck) than Robben’s misses, which, to be honest, the Spanish out-did.
The referee fails to see this corner because the Dutchmen themselves distract the referee.
All people talks about that silly anecdote and say that the referee fix the game for Spain… but nobody talks about the karate exibition of Holland… I wonder which match have seen some people…
Nice to see I picked up on the same things you did re: this game. I saw two things:
(1) Holland played far more forward than anyone Spain faced apart from Paraguay. Even when they weren’t fouling Spanish midfielders, the Dutch defence were doing an excellent job disrupting Spanish possession. Apart from a couple of notable instances, the Dutch were not terribly bothered by the Spanish. For all of the pontificating about the weakness of the Dutch backline, they absorbed what little pressure Spain managed quite fine.
(2) The tactical turning point of the match was when Xabi Alonso was taken off for Fabregas. Instantly the Spanish attack became more menacing because they finally had someone in midfield who would take the ball and go at opponents in an attempt to break them down.
Fabregas’ introduction was interesting in that it gave reasoned (e.g. folks who aren’t big fans of Spain’s style for more than it’s not “Lump it up to the big man”) people some evidence for their dislike of Spain’s style. As technically elegant and sophisticated as their passing and possession is, there are some who wish that they would just take a chance rather than wait for the opportunity. Fabregas’ penchant for doing just that made Spain far more menacing in attack, forcing the Dutch to go after him, making space for others who were formerly penned in with ease due to the Spaniards’ seemingly limitless patience.
But I guess that’ll be missed by folks more interested in seeing what they wanted to see in Spain’s performance or acting hypocritical in condemning the Netherlands’ physical gameplan.
Very Good point, but I guess Spain just wanted to stick to their style and if things didn’t go well then have a plan B. So it shows that they have so many different options if things don’t go according to plan, which is very good for a side like Spain to have.
Couldn’t agree with you more. I also think bringing Navas on for Pedro also helped as Navas actually stayed on the wing and created more space for Iniesta in the middle of the park, where he is more dangerous than marooned out on the left wing like he was for so much of the tournament.
And thank you for pointing out that there are some of us who can appreciate Spain’s technical ability and style and still find it a bit sterile. There’s more that one correct opinion on this question and simply because I mind not find it thrilling doesn’t mean that I can’t appreciate it. Furthermore, there’s obviously been a lot of words written on this site (comment section included) and others about how this team is the international embodiment of Barcalona’s style. They might be similar thanks to Xavi and the formation they set up in, but the two sides differ wildly when it comes to attacking philosophy. Where Barca always is looking to move the ball forward from the midfield to Messi and Iniesta, this Spain side is much happier to pass the ball amongst the defensive midfielder and slowly move forward. Maybe it’s just not having Messi on the squad, but never have I been been more convinced of Messi’s (and a properly positioned Iniesta) value to making that Barcalona side the beautiful attacking side they are than after watching this fairly defensive and sterile Spanish squad.
I’d just like to point out that, every game he’s played in this WC, Navas has done the same exact thing whenever the ball has come to him. He drifts inward, tries to juke the defender but invariably darts further toward the goal line before attempting a cross. I have never seen him do anything else… it’s beyond predictable. I agree with ZM’s observation that he added width, but I don’t think the width he provided could truly be taken advantage of until Fabregas came on. Essentially, del Bosque traded a wandering midfielder/winger (Pedro) and a holding midfielder (Alonso) for a more one-dimensional winger (Navas) and a more direct attacking midfielder (Fabregas). This is a beautiful tactical move–it changes the offense in a subtle way, distributing but also solidifying it at the same time. The trade off is one less holding midfielder, but I guess del Bosque was going for the kill. I applaud how non-literal his substitutions were. In fact, I’d say that his choices have won the game for Spain more times than we imagine in this World Cup.
All true, and you’re correct to point out that it was the combination of Navas and Fabregas that changed the match. Del Bosque should rightly get the credit, but it’s also fair to then question why he never made these changes from the start.
Pedro had a good semifinal, so del Bosque kept him on until he realized that he needs a true winger, so he made a relatively early switch.
Xabi Alonso was having a pretty good run, in my opinion, and I think fresh legs definitely played a part in the substitution. Xavi-Fabregas-Iniesta looked good, though.
I think too many are overrating Fabregas just a little. I appreciate the different skills he has, and would have loved to see him start a game in this WC and go against fresh legs for once.
There is no doubt Spain is the best team in this tournament. They are the only team that has a reservoir of varying talents that can answer most if not all the questions that are posted to them.
The chief brilliance of del Bosque is that he obviously decided from the get go to turn Spain’s immense depth of quality into a tangible advantage. His substitutions have in each game had immense impact. I think holding Fabregas on the bench is a very overt move — Xavi and Iniesta are after all greater players, and the possiblity of Fabregas coming on means A) he can sustain an unrivaled midfield if something were to happen to Xavi or Iniesta; B) he can change Fabregas for Alonso and have an immediate offensive effect; C) he can change him for Pedro/Silva/Navas and make the team’s play through the center stronger; and D) in a formation using Torres and Villa, he can supplement any deficiency in service. Navas is really too one-dimensional to be allowed to start — Spain scores toward the end of matches for a reason: that is when defenses begin to stretch. Until then, the priority is to not concede, which the Pedro/Alonso combination is much better at.
“Navas has done the same exact thing whenever the ball has come to him. He drifts inward, tries to juke the defender but invariably darts further toward the goal line before attempting a cross. I have never seen him do anything else… it’s beyond predictable.”
Actually yesterday, I though Navas played very differently and had an important contribution. He finally understood that his crosses aren’t going to be met by his midget team-mates. So Navas attempted and completed only one cross (he had ~40 crosses before the game). He instead chose to drive the ball into the box for Villa but Villa shot it straight at Stekelenburg. And he played a part in Iniesta’s goal by running down the right wing and then onto the left of the pitch through the centre playing a one-two with Iniesta then passing to Torres, while still continuing his run, who passed to Fabregas who in turn assisted Iniesta. He also went for goal once by himself but it took a deflection. That’s not how he played in his first 2 games at all when all he did was put cross after cross into the box.
Navas contributes the same way for Sevilla. It’s blatantly obvious what he does, but did you see him become dispossessed at all? Even though Netherlands knows what he’s going to do, time after time he still receives the ball on the wing and makes the correct pass into the box or lays it off.
His width changes the attack because instead of going forward and looking to score in a more direct way, they played the ball outside to Navas who could provide more width even if he wasn’t the last player to bring the ball back through.
I think you’re overrating Fabregas here – no doubt his introduction has changed the game, but more in the manner that Xavi no longer needs to play off-position to accomodate the redundant Alonso.
I don’t think Fabregas had a stellar performance, but as you have said, the fact that Xavi could play in the Xavi position made a significant difference.
What Fabregas brings is variation. Very soon after coming on he had a great run through the centre of the Dutch defence. Spain simply hadn’t tried that tactic before and their play was very one-dimensional (though I’m not criticizing their usual play).
What annoys me about the introduction of Navas (and perhaps of Spain’s play in general) is that there never seems to be anyone in the box to meet his crosses and so after a couple of crosses to an empty penalty area he is forced to try too much and often loses possession. Obviously a fit Torres would be able to do that but without him (and don’t get me started on the apalling decision to continue playing him!) Spain don’t get the most out of their wing play.
I wonder if Spain’s crosses are intended just to be cleared. Then, they can bring their centre-backs forward for a corner, or if the ball remains in play, take advantage of oppositional panic; using space left by midfielders breaking their wall to file into the box and so on.
I won’t pretend to be expert, but whilst Spain have won, making quibbling about their selections seem absurd, I have not been able to understand the team for the last two games. Villa seemed unplayable coming from the left, Xavi seems more comfortable running the game from deeper, and Iniesta would surely be best placed in the centre. Surely Busquets, Xavi – Pedro, Iniesta, Villa – Torres or Llorente would have been the most logical choice of midfield and attack?
Nah, you’re forgetting defense. It used to be like that when Senna was around, but they basically need Alonso to supplement Busquets now. Either way, you need to realize that Spain count on breaking through later than sooner. Most of their goals came in the second half. This means that their main concern, until the opponents’ defense begins to stretch, is not to concede. Hence the extra holding midfielder. Plus, Alonso is a good in-between… he can get forward for a strong shot and his defensive play is always solid and judicious. Just what they need until things start to open up on the other end.
I think Xavi playing too high up is the main reason Spain wasn’t as incisive in attack as they were at Euro 2008 (well, along with Torres’s leg). I actually don’t think his passing was any better than that of Xabi or even (not trying to start a flame war, honest) Busquets. His main contribution was that he put the ball into the penalty area more often than anyone else, but presumably he had more attempts than anyone else.
The other negative about him, and the reason I’d deny him a place in the team of the tournament, is that he put zero shots on target the entire tournament. Normally you don’t need a huge quantity of goals from Xavi — Barca would probably play him even if he didn’t get any. But these circumstances were different from 2008. Then Spain had Villa, Silva, and Torres in top form peppering the goal with shots (even if they were better with only two of the three on the field). Senna and Iniesta were also threats, along with Xabi and Guiza off the bench.
In this tournament, Spain were over-reliant on Villa for their goalscoring threat. Iniesta was a distant second banana. Torres’s contribution was mostly to use his reputation as a distraction (which at times aided Villa a lot!), while Xabi was too deep to have quality opportunities. It was left to the backline to help out — Puyol got the goal, but Ramos had more of the job. It seems that with Xavi high up and off target, the team were a goalscorer short. The guy who should’ve been on the field more was Navas — seemed more dangerous than anyone but Villa. He might be one-dimensional, but so is Mueller.
So Navas and Fabregas for Pedro and Xabi were vital to the Spanish victory. Still, let me end with praise for Xabi. Reading some of the comments, you’d think it was crazy to put him in the team if it meant Xavi would be pushed further up than he liked. In truth, I don’t know whether Spain would’ve been better or worse without him. But the man did his job. Busquets you expect tough defence from, but it was Xabi who was Spain’s top tackler for the tournament. Spain’s attack may have been patchy by their incredible standards, but I think their defending was better than ever. Spain aren’t the greatest international side of all-time, but on the evidence of the knock-out games, they might have the best ever defence.
I agree with pretty much everything, but could you explain why you think Müller is one-dimensional? I think he’s actually a very complete player.
(Note: I don’t watch the Bundesliga, so welcome corrections from anyone who actually knows what they’re talking about.)
Mueller is fast and he’s a clinical finisher (or he was in this tournament; I don’t remember him being nearly as convincing in the Champions League), so I guess that’s two dimensions. Main weakness is that he gives away possession too easily. Despite a few good crosses, I’m not entirely convinced by his passing. Maybe his assist on Podolski’s goal vs Australia was brilliant; I think it was lucky. He also ran into tackles a few times. J. Wilson said something like that he lacked guile; his goal against Australia shows his guile is not entirely absent.
Although Mueller was better than Oezil this tournament, it’s easy to see why Oezil is considered the more rounded player. Then again, Oezil might turn out to be a world top ten player. If Mueller turns out to be a world top twenty player, German fans will have a lot to look forward to.
How was Alonso redundant ? He was the most important factor in the spanish midfield linking defence and attack, brilliantly for the most part. I just think that most people are just annoyed that Xavi was allowed to “run” the midfield and if Xavi does not play further back, he is the one who is useless. A one trick pony (who is absolutely brilliant at the one trick) – Xavi for you.
Regarding point (2), a good enough point. When considering the source of Spain’s play style (Barcelona) it is odd that the national side don’t have a ‘Messi’ type in the squad. On the other hand, there is Iniesta who enjoys going at opponents with the ball. His role may have limited that however. The thing about Iniesta (and probably why he missed two obvious chances) is that he has no trust in his left foot.
I tend to agree with the last point. My theory is that while Spain play very much like Barcelona, Spain are without players like Dani Alves and Messi (players who can run at defenders and provide a more direct threat), so Spain look to wear down their opponents through passing rather than creating constant opportunities. Fabregas, while a different player from Messi or Alves, does provide that direct threat. Del Bosque’s choice to consistently pick Xabi Alonso over Fabregas was probably a deliberate one because of his confidence that opponents would eventually tire without the need to bring on Fabregas. But against a team as good as the Dutch, Spain needed more than just possession and technical ability to break them down.
for me it looked like Spain was a little bit tired and lacked the acuracy in passing they showed against Germany and with Netherland’s “tough approach” they had problems to controll ball and space…
Nevertheless IMO a deserved winner and the most complete package on the pitch …
The referee was IMO the best man on the field!!! … he tried everything he could to keep it a soccer game and did a great job – another referee and the game could have ended in a disaster…..
I thought that I was the only one that thought Webb did quite a good job considering the circumstances (ok that missed call for the corner was kinda embarrassing but whatever)… The players were seriously not making it any easier for the ref at all, with karate-kick and leg breaker tackles all over the place…
Ok some 50-50 calls he may have gotten wrong, but he tried his best really.. Some people were saying that Torres’ initial cross to Iniesta was offside and hence should have called off the goal: that would have been pure injustice really.. Iniesta wasn’t bothering Mathijsen during his clearance at all, so no need to call offside…
he (the referee) had a clear direction and made it absolutely clear to the players, he really guided the (very difficult) game in a positive way … not sure about the corner so, maybe he saw a foul ….if he was wrong here IMO that’s acceptable considering the challenges he had to manage through the whole game…
But the only reason Mathijsen had to reach in the way he did to try and clear, which then left him out of position for the pass to Iniesta was BECAUSE Iniesta was offsides behind him. If we’re going by the standard that FIFA has set out that a player can be interfering with play, then Iniesta should have been flagged and the goal should never have stood. Poor, poor decision from Webb and co, who were okay during the match but extremely poor when it came to the big decisions (De Jong’s flying tackle, Puyol on Robben’s break, and Iniesta for Spain’s goal) Although it was in keeping with England’s decent but ultimately inept performance during the cup.
By the way, I didn’t care who won, so don’t try and tell me I’m being biased in favor of Holland.
Ye fair enough, that’s a good point, but it’s interesting b/c very few people really thought about the goal that way (about Iniesta being offside initially)… OOh well, I think penalty-shoot out would have been too bad for my blood pressure anyway^^
Interestingly, as soon as the goal went in I was standing out of my chair yelling that it was offsides. I was the only one in the bar to do so. Again, I think Spain was the better side; I just hate when matches are decided by referee’s decisions.
Yeah, penalties would have been tough to watch.
Well, you were wrong anyway. Iniesta was not offside on the initial pass from Torres. Watch it again. At worst he was even with the 2nd to last defender. When seen from the side, where the linesman was perfectly positioned, Iniesta is certainly no nearer the goal than the 2nd to last defender, despite van der Vaart’s upraised arm at the time.
I think the offside/not is highly subjective as the “Interfering with play” rules are fairly subjective too. I’ve seen those calls get ruled on side and ruled off side. As a Dutch fan I WANTED it to be offside, but the reality of the matter is the linesman did not raise his flag.
The main problems I’ve had in this game are the blatantly missed calls — the two corners, the dive from Iniesta, etc. And Webb’s inability to use the tools at his disposal as weighted and appropriate response to events on the pitch.
The first two yellow cards on Van Persie and Puyol were completely innocuous. Both were simply late challenges with no serious danger, but Webb thought it was appropriate to “stamp his authority on this game.” A more reasonable ref, knowing the tensions and nerves of a World Cup final, would’ve given verbal warnings. With that kind of tight-calling, it’s entirely unreasonable to have ruled De Jong’s dangerously high boot with a simple yellow card. The inconsistency only serves to plant seeds of doubt in the Spanish players’ mind about the ref’s desire to protect them, and embolden the Dutch destroyers’ desire to put a choke hold on Spanish creativity.
The result of this is even more dangerous play from Van Bommel along with more floppy behavior from the Spanish (not to say the Spaniards didn’t play physical when they had to or the Dutch didn’t try to make the most out of every foul). This shift in behavior only makes Webb’s life more difficult because the 22 players on the pitch all played with (more) intent to deceive.
Suddenly, the game was full of players making extra effort to put each other off the game; every tackle has somebody falling over at the lightest contact; every 50-50 ball was contested with more physical contact than necessary. Webb, in turn, blew his whistle every time a player fell and stopped the play even when the challenge was physical but fair. Yellow cards are handed out liberally whether it was simply a slightly mistimed 50-50 challenge or it was a professional foul with full intent to simply stop play.
By now the game is no longer about playing football, but how to get in each others’ as well as the ref’s minds. Facing the madness which he helped unleash, Webb didn’t step in when needed to clamp down the behavior that was truly unsporting — the professional fouls; the Spanish players crowding him every time a Spaniard fell over; the play-acting. And the game continues to spiral out of control.
Webb’s dismal performance builds further by NOT calling a last-defender-man-pulling foul against Puyol on Robben simply because Robben chose to stay on his feet — a surefire way to discourage diving. “I guess he doesn’t plan to call fouls or give cards on incidents which he let advantage play”, I thought, only to be proven wrong minutes later, when an innocuous 50-50 challenge on Spain results in Spain still in possession of the ball, advantage being played, the effort comes to nothing, and Webb calls play back to some 10 seconds ago and hands a yellow card to the Dutch. The nightmarish night culminates with his dismissal of Johnnh Heitinga on a foul on Iniesta whose significance is lower than that of the one from Puyol on Robben, but the main difference being that Iniesta fell down and Robben didn’t.
To cap off his performance, Webb then misses two obvious corners, a shoulder-barging sandwich play from Spain against Elia just outside of the box, hands out several yellow cards for frivolous incursions like dissent, and gets sold down the river by Iniesta with a dive for which he awards a yellow card to the Dutch.
Despite Spain walking out of this match narrow but deserved winners, what transpired in front of my eyes was not a game of football at the highest level with the highest stakes — It was the Howard Webb show.
@Yunny:
first: the goal is not highly subjective: watch the video and from all angles it is an absolutely correct goal – no offsite, just a nice goal from a nice pass and a good finsh….
secondly: all what the Dutch players had to do is to get out and score one goal more than Spain – I don’t think that the referee would have had any intention to prevent them from doing so….to reduce the final to a “poor performance” of the refree (IMO he did a good job) is IMO not justified.
@Dropbear
No this is no way an excuse for the Dutch performance. I see it as one of the major factors that we witnessed such a poor, poor game in which some of the worst gamesmenship in football came to the fore.
@Yunny. If you want to talk about rough shoulder barging of Elia, I should mention van Bommel shoulder barging a Spanish player INSIDE the box. I get it, you’re a Dutch fan so you are completely biased. I’m neither a dutch nor spanish fan, but I wanted the Dutch to lose this final. So yes, I’m biased too.
You should simply be thanking Webb for letting Holland stay in the game before half time because you could easily have been down to 9 men. If that had rightfully happened, we wouldn’t be talking about tiny Elia being muscled off (legally) off the ball nor the corner-goal kick nor the ridiculously sore-loser type branding of the goal as offside.
This final has only further tarnished Dutch football and will always be remembered for this violent conduct by their players. Dutch fans shouldn’t be so hypocritical regards this match because lets face it, it was refereeing errors that let you play 6 matches and 120 minutes of a world cup final. Even France would have put up a better show.
Uh, what you said proves my point further. If there’s a Van Bommel shoulder barge in the box that Webb didn’t call, that’s even more mistakes he made as a ref. Holland SHOULDN’T be lucky to have a “lenient” ref. If Howard saw a red card he should’ve given a red card. He shouldn’t be “making up” calls.
Those of you who think I’m complaining about Webb because the Dutch lost clearly haven’t read anything I said. The Dutch didn’t deserve to walk out of there as winners. But Webb turned the final into a farce.
I agree that these three decisions were wrong. Plus the goal kick/corner kick. I haven’t seen the Elia incident again right before the goal but I thought “no call” was fair at the time
Iniesta was passive offsite before and moved onsite … when he received the ball he was definitely onsite …all according to the rules …. otherwise the passive offsite rule wouldn’t make sense and you could argue about any passive offsite position..
The Dutch player only stretched to play the ball because he knew Iniesta was behind him. That’s interfering with play. It’s the same reason Paraguay’s goal against Spain was chalked off for offsides even though the player never touched the ball.
The passive offsides rule is supposed to prevent stoppages when a player is not affecting the play. It’s not supposed to allow the attacking team to use an offsides player to gain an advantage.
If it was so offside the defensive player should have let him have it, then it would have been clear to the linesman. As it was, the ball was so poorly placed I think the linesmen was maybe unsure where the play was. Iniesta was very slightly offside to receive the ball, was quickly back onside with lots of time for the defense to pick him up (but they didn’t). Once the play resumed it was all clears. If it was offside, it was a tough one to call, and not clear enough to wipe off after such a match. I could be biased. But I think it should have stood (which it did).
…I will watch it again this evening, but from memory I think it was a correct goal….. otherwise any passive offsite position could be seen as a decoy run and any defender could argue that he was distracted by an offsite position …but as I said, I will watch it again and if I was wrong my apology to jonathan…
@dropbear
The passive offsides decision is one of the more frustrating ones in football simply because there never seems to be any consistency with how it’s interpreted. My whole contention is that Spain gained the advantage from Iniesta being in an offsides position and the Dutch defender having to deal with a ball intended for an offsides player. I think it was the wrong decision, but I understand why it wasn’t called. I don’t think there would be quite the problem you envision, but I would rather see the decision err in favor of the defenders in these cases. Just my personal belief.
Go watch it again and let me know what you think. And no need for any apology, I completely understand if people have a different view on this; like I said, it can really go either way depending on how you choose to interpret the rule.
watch the replay and you’ll know that it has nothing to do with Iniesta being in passive offside and distracting the defenders. It has more to do with the Dutch leaving more space as they’re a man down.
right right
how about holland’s winner against uruguay?
what goes around comes around..
I’m watching the replay and I’m struggling to see the case for offside. Iniesta is making a run in an offside position when Torres crosses; he quickly pulls up and is onside when Fabregas passes. Until then, he doesn’t try to play the ball under any reasonable interpretation, so he can’t be called for “interfering with play” or “gaining an advantage”. There’s the possibility of calling him for “interfering with an opponent”. Well, he isn’t between any defender and the ball, and doesn’t come close to touching anyone. So you can only call offside if he’s deceiving or distracting the defence. Well, by my understanding, deceiving or distracting would mean something like blowing a vuvuzela in Mathijsen’s ear — a run in and of itself doesn’t constitute a distraction.
Webb got a few things wrong today, but I don’t see that this was one of them.
Jonathan, Please watch the video again in super slow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0uFy23vR3s
Iniesta is not offside even during Torres’ initial pass. How can he be passive offside when he is not offside. Although I agree that a view parallel to the by-line would have given a clearer indication. At best, the decision is too close to call. Under such circumstances, the attacking team is given the benefit.
Agree completely. Just rewatched it 10 times and at NO TIME is Iniesta offside on the play for the goal.
yep, absolutely correct goal, no offsite at all – the referee got it absolutely right!
Yes. Check it at 1:03 you can clearly see that the ball has left Torres’ foot and Iniesta is onside. Legal goal.
You’re right. Thanks for the video. It looked offsides at first glance. Good decision. Although I’d be curious if the ball ahd gone through if the linesman would have raised his flag because it seemed like one of those calls that gets made wrong more often than not…
Well if u ask me, I blamed Mathijsen for reaching his leg to handle the ball away. The pressure of the last minute battle got into his mind and he just not pick the correct decision since he know all along (he raised his hand) that Iniesta was offside when the ball came for him for the first time. He should just let the ball go knowing he’s the one covering Iniesta after Heitinga got dismissed. His over reaching leg make him goes into the ground as a result thus releasing Iniesta to take hold of the situation.
bad decision, especially for a captain. That cost them the match.
Except he can’t have known, because Iniesta was not offside at any point.
Thank you and goodnight.
i don’t know why you guys keep talking about Mathijsen. It was Van der Vaart who made the mistake and also played Iniesta onsite (He got the captain’s armband after Van Brockhorst was subbed).
As a Dutchman i can’t even be angry at the corner-mistake and any possible offside for Iniesta.
Had the referee been doing his job the way he was supposed to, Holland would have had two men sent off in the first 30 minutes, and we would have been absolutely destroyed with something like 5-0.
Us Dutch have more reason to be grateful to Howard Webb that he kept us in the game, then we have reason to be angry with him for corner or offside mistakes.
I’ve said yesterday i thought De Jong and Van Bommel’s tackles were an embarrassment as well as hopelessly stupid.
I’m embarrassed even more knowing that De Jong and Van Bommel actually have the *nerve* to criticize the referee after the match. These two have no shame.
If i was them at the least i’d have kept my mouth shut and hope people will forget we tried to literally kick players off the pitch.
Credit for being fair about it, it’s a shame some of the Dutch players were complaining, only natural I suppose. In a couple of days time they might feel they got what they deserved.
Hear, hear. The cynical tactics of the Dutch ruined what should have been the game of the tournament. I met up with a bunch of people at a party later in the afternoon, and the 40-50 people there uniformly told me they stopped watching after the first 15 minutes. I realize that FIFA’s biggest aim isn’t to build the game’s popularity solely in the US, but this is the kind of game that convinces on-the-fence, casual US fans that football is boring and dominated by black arts and playacting.
I give Webb a lot of credit for keeping a lid on the riot that was the first half and allowing the game to go 11 v 11 up to a point at which Holland began to tire and space began to open for the positive footballing side to give a decent display. All credit to Spain, as they showed consistent initiative in trying to win the game (although they were not blameless in the thuggery department).
Clotpoll, while the physicality was unfortunate, it’s overly harsh to say “The cynical tactics of the Dutch ruined what should have been the game of the tournament”.
Given that Spain won their last three matches 1-0, how could anyone have predicted a goalfest? This was always going to be a tight game given the nature of the way Spain play. The challenges Holland made were unfortunate, but didn’t really affect the outcome of the game.
Maybe you just believe the ridiculously clueless US studio broadcasters? (Alexi Lalas was particularly amusing) Sure those challenges were something the game could do without, but it was hardly the case that they ruined what should have been a 4-3 goal sensation.
Let’s not turn the dutch team into the monsters of the century here, because honestly they don’t deserve that.
If you are prepared to send off Puyol for his tackle to Robben then you HAVE to erradicate van Bommel from the pitch for his bulldozer-like challenge to Iniesta in the first half. Consistency please, otherwise I might start thinking that although you are not at all biased your glasses indeed have a slight orange pigmentation.
* Takes off orange-pigmented glasses *
You have to admit, there was no consistency in the refereeing in the final. If he wasn’t prepared to send off Puyol, how did he produce a second yellow for Heitinga?
* Puts orange-pigmented glasses back on *
I am a Dutch fan and although I begrudgingly congratulate Spain as deserved winners (I had predicted them to come out on top before the tournament, but my heart follow the Dutch), I am nevertheless butthurt over the loss.
Actually there is pretty much consistency.
I’m Dutch so i don’t have any bias against Holland.
Puyol not being sent off *is* consistent, in the simple fact that he also did not send of Mark Van Bommel AND Nigel de Jong.
You seem eager to ignore this fact and want to equate his decisions for Puyol with Heitinga, as if the horror tackles of MvB and NdJ never happened.
Had the referee been consistent, Holland had been playing with 9 men after 30 minutes and what do you think the score line would have been then? There would have been no Puyol holding Robben back because Holland would have been completely down and out already by that point.
And even if Puyol still would have done it, by that time the score might have been 3-0 so who cares if Spain would have lost a man at that point.
Being Dutch, the only thing you should do is not complain about the referee who saved us from an even more complete embarrassment, and admit that the team has caused the image of Dutch football irreparable damage. Everybody hates our football now. And for what reward? Certainly not for finally winning the gold.
‘74 and ‘78 gave us beautiful losers. ‘10 gave us ugly, thuggish losers.
Is this what we played “realistically” for? To get this far with lots of luck, lots of foul play and boring football, and still lose anyway?
“Actually there is pretty much consistency.”
“Had the referee been consistent, Holland had been playing with 9 men after 30 minutes and what do you think the score line would have been then?”
I believe you’ve just contradicted yourself. It’s poor refereeing at the world’s biggest stage. If he saw infractions that should’ve brought the Dutch to 9 men, then he should’ve punished them, not “make up” for it.
Apologies for being a pediant, but the beginning of the fifth paragraph should read: “The pressing also complemented the tactics of their back four..”, rather than “complimented”.
Insightful read, as ever.
I would imagine you mean ‘pedant’. You have also used that colon incorrectly. Nice try though.
Is your supercilious tone really necessary? I wasn’t being critical of ZM’s piece; but merely pointing out a minor (and I what I believed to be inadvertent) error.
Don’t you mean ’supersillious’?
Er, no. Perhaps you should examine a dictionary to verify that for yourself.
I can’t seem to make out what Elia was thinking on the goal. He was just wandering in the middle and when Mathijson half-clears it, he is in position to step into the passing lane between Cesc and Iniesta, but just stands there and waves his hands in the air after Iniesta puts it in the net. Seemed very lazy for a guy who played only 60 minutes, so his legs weren’t super-tired.
I was thinking the exact same thing watching the replay. He’s totally passive during the play. He should get some stick for that.
One thing about the Dutch system…Surely they would have been better off trying to get more out of Van Persie. I watched him closely and his touch was good in this match; in fact he barely put a foot wrong whenever he received the ball…yet he was such a minor influence on the match because he saw so little of the ball. The Dutch didn’t seem to have anyone in midfield who had any desire to make chances for their striker. That’s wasteful by the Dutch, in my opinion.
I agree, though one thing about RVP that bothered me throughout this tournament was his inability to play quickly enough – that’s not very Dutch at all. It seemed like he was always taking too many touches and keeping his head down when playing it and moving into space would have been the better move.
I think he played one-touch as often as he could. I think your point has validity in some instances, but there was little, if any, movement from his comrades on offense much of the tournament. It was incredibly disappointing how poorly the Dutch attack functioned throughout the World Cup. IMO, it would have been a scandal if they had won it.
I’ve started out very critical of Van Persie, and i still am.
I think he’s overrated and nothing he’s shown has relieved me of that belief.
However, gradually i’ve come to the conclusion that there is something more going on.
Van Persie and Sneijder are serious arch-rivals behind the scenes. I’ve heard before the tournament Sneijder insisted with the manager that play revolve around him and Van Persie wasn’t too happy with that. Most of you will know by now that when Van Persie was upset at being subbed against Slovakia, he told the manager he shouldve taken Sneijder off instead.
I have the big suspicion that Sneijder may have deliberately ignored Van Persie on a number of occasions, thus isolating him. Think about it, with his passing skill he should have gotten more than enough possibilities to include Van Persie in play, especially against the likes of Japan, Slovakia, Cameroon and Uruguay. But everytime Sneijder got close to the goal area he chose to shoot from distance rather than (through-)pass or go for combinations. His free kicks were also all on goal, even if he was 40 yards out.
Sneijder has been praised by almost everyone this tournament because he’s scored a lot of goals. But Sneijder is a playmaker and his primary function is to make play. How much has he really done that? The way he’s played (bar a few exceptions) he’s merely been looking to become top goal scorer rather than create chances for others.
But how do you criticize an advanced playmaker who scores 5 goals and helps get you in the final, so not a lot of people will recognize how awful he’s been, generally, in terms of creating chances for others. With wingers that cut inside for their glory (Robben), wingers whose primary function is to track back (Kuyt) and a playmaker who seems merely interested in getting the golden ball himself (Sneijder), i am no longer just blaming Van Persie himself for his failure. This is a serious issue for the foreseeable future of Holland’s national team that may very well lead to a bust-up and an exclusion of either Sneijder or Van Persie.
To be honest, if I was Sneijder I wouldn’t pass to Van Persie.
I can’t stand the guy. He’s overrated and has a terrible first touch. Puyol and Pique would have eaten him alive.
To say rvp has a terrible first touch is ridiculous, he has a magical first touch and his movement was very good throughout the tournament. To me sneijder was poor in his link up play throughout the tournament bar the occasion ball to robben he really struggled to impose himself on any game and I feel as he is such a vital player for The Dutch in bringing other attacking players into the game I think he has escaped criticism; people probably clouded by his goal tally, very lightly for their attacking deficiency. Rvp was not this best by any means but he has just come back from a series of long term injuries, look at how ineffectual Torres has been. How many chances has rvp missed? His lack of service is the real crime, you can’t blame him for that.
I criticize both RvP and Sneijder.
Robin Van Persie *is* a massively overrated player with a disappointing first touch. Whenever i see him play i get the suspicious he actually has to struggle to control the ball rather than it coming naturally as it did with Dennis Bergkamp for instance.
I’ve said many times now, i think it’s his body that is getting in the way of what his mind wants. He is too clumsy with those long legs and arms to be as good as he wants to be, and that is why he could not get past any half-way decent defender if his life depended on it. He NEEDS space (as with his drag the ball back under his foot), and any player that absolutely needs space to function in any capacity cannot ever be a truly gifted technical player.
And his movement was good? It wasn’t “good movement”. It was RvP running everywhere except where he was supposed to be because he was frustrated with not being part of play. As a result we didn’t have anyone up front where it mattered. This is okay if Holland has player who overlap, but we don’t.
And finally, if we want to insist RvP is a wonderful player with magnificent skills: exactly which important match has he decided? In what match against a massive team was he the number one who dictated play and made the difference? In my opinion RvP is just one of many “okay” players at this level. No more, no less.
I criticise Sneijder for exactly the reason you mentioned. He is an ego-driven sneaky little player whom i suspect has deliberately ignored RvP on a number of occasions simply because they hate each other. Sneijder has been praised both for his goals and his “teamplay”. But the only teamplay i’ve noticed was when he was in no position to go for own glory. Big deal. Who wouldn’t give a killer pass to Robben or anyone else if he is in his own half?
When he had a free kick or was near the penalty box, you could see how much of a team player he really was: always trying to get on the score-sheet instead of passing into feet or passing through balls, or delivering a free kick onto a head instead of trying ridiculous free kicks from 40 or 35 yards on goal. Has any free kick by Sneijder ever needed a good save in this tournament? I can’t recall. He is a playmaker but hardly ever made play near the goal, instead thinking he was a striker. Holland was horrible. Van Nistelrooy wouldn’t take this crap so you didn’t see this two years ago. But now you have at least three incredible ego-maniacs running around looking for their own glory. Robben who keeps doing the same thing because perish the thought he could pass or cross sometimes instead of trying to score. Sneijder who almost wins the golden ball because he can’t stand RvP benefiting from his play. And RvP who wanted to play striker, but starts roaming and leaving the position unmanned, showing utter petulance at being subbed, and sitting in a dug out sulking while the rest of the team thanks the crowd for their support after a win.
Holland lived by the negative, ugly football and ultimately they died by it. Holland could have been playing with 10 much earlier had Webb not been exceedingly proper and generous (or had he properly seen that brutal foul to Alonso by De Jong). Was that in the 33rd minute, or thereabouts?
Did Spain need Holland to be down to 10 men to score? I don’t think so, but it sure helped. After the first good burst of Spanish play in the first, Holland were succeeding in their tactics and had effectively pushed Spain out of their rhythm. But, by the second (due to yellow cards, and fatigue and therefore more careful playing) Spain had it back and once they have that pace and passing going one gets the feeling that a goal is imminent. It took longer than expected, but it seemed undeniable (to me) that it was coming.
Brazil v. Spain final is the best match that never happened. I would have loved to see a team play Spain full-on. Chile tried, but they were maybe to ideological about it. A well-balanced team like Brazil, with passing as good as Spain’s (maybe?) v. Spain. That would have been nice.
Despite their trouble getting the ball in the net, I can’t help but love this Spanish side. Beautiful game, indeed.
Now, if only they could find a way to have Torres fit next time, and a way to fit him properly into the system.
I wonder what this side will look like in 2014. Brazil, Germany and Spain all seem likely to impress.
….quote: “Brazil v. Spain final is the best match that never happened.”…
all speculation, and wrt “dirty / negative game”: Brazil wasn’t much better (or even worse) in the game against the Dutch so it is hard to see why “Brazil-Spain” would have been a better game…
The Dutch pushed them there, and Dunga’s bad example (and maybe poor selections) meant the Brazilians were weak on this point. They caved to the dirty (or to be generous, very physical and psychological) tactics of the Dutch. They lost their heads and started down that road.
With the Spanish, they would have played differently. The Spanish play positive football. This Brazilian side would have been slightly more defensive, but ready to pounce. But without the bad energy on the field, the two sides probably would have put on an amazing show.
This configuration of the Dutch side seems to quickly fall into some nasty play, most often as instigators. I though the Portugal/Dutch match (in the Euros? WC 2006?) was mostly Portugal’s fault, but I think increasingly the Dutch kind of have themselves to blame.
“The Dutch pushed them there, and Dunga’s bad example (and maybe poor selections) meant the Brazilians were weak on this point. They caved to the dirty (or to be generous, very physical and psychological) tactics of the Dutch. They lost their heads and started down that road.”
That’s just total nonsense. The Brazilians’tactic to stop Robben by fouling him constantly was evident from minute one, and Robinho and Dunga were already screaming and going completely mad before the Dutch had actually done anything to get mad about.
Oh. Ok.
indeed … Brazil’s biggest mistake in this game was to focus on their weak side instead of focussing on their strength … it was obvious that part of their (Brazil’s) game play was to shut Robben down and you can’t blame Robben that he tried his run again and again and was stopped by fouls…
well, Robben was obviously diving all around the pitch against Brazil trying to get the advantage through corners or free kicks. The dutch could never have any advantage by playing normally.
You could see in the final when he was going for glory, not even Puyol can pull him down, and yet he falls like a girl in previous matches or in places where he knows the Dutch can’t do a thing, might as well get a free kick or corner.
@kok hsien
…geez, he really overdid it a little bit with his diving 
… poor Melo 
…wasn’t his fault, definitely not ….
…yeah, and he also dived under Melo’s foot to got stamped
@kok hsien
The sad thing is, when getting fouled, there are two options for the attacking player: try to not fall down and continue playing and SCORE or fall down and get a free kick. As again proven by that Puyol foul on Robben, in the first case you simply MUST score, otherwise the chance is wasted (due to unfair play by the defender). So in many cases it seems simply necessary to overact after being fouled.
In my opinion sometimes it is very tough to really judge a foul correctly. Sometimes, a move that barely is a foul keeps the attacking player from reaching a ball just a second before the defenders do, like in the scene you mentioned, so falling down seems to be the only viable option.
@dropbear
wow, did i say anything about Melo being in the right? Melo should’ve stamped him harder and take his legs off. Robben dived the whole match and made Melo lose his head. Robben got what he wanted, to get a player sent off.
Same thing Iniesta did in the final ironically. Karma is a bitch sometimes.
@reteef
He actually got around Puyol, Puyol just slowed him down for a bit. It’s basically the same thing as blocking using his body, just that he did some gymnastic moves there. Lol.
If Puyol should get a 2nd yellow card, Netherlands should play with 8 players before 2nd half.
@kok hsien
Blocking using his body is part of the physical nature of the game, but he was outpaced already and held him, that is a foul. I’m not comparing potential red cards here. I’m just saying that there is a competition between defenders playing on the line between a physical game and plain fouling on the one hand and attacking players overacting on the other. I don’t like both, but I think it is just fair to answer that defensive style with some overacting and “mild” diving.
@kok hsien
Yeah, you’re obviously totally objective.
Why do some fanatical “fans” (and i use this term negatively) have to ruin good discussion with their aggressive jingoist rhetoric?
kok hsien is obviously ignoring the fact that iniesta constantly going down as if shot, particularly in extra time.
Robben could have gotten Puyol sent of if he fell, Puyols arm was clearly wrapped around Robbens waist.
But none of this is worth debating, there’s nothing interesting talking about which team dove less or fouled more.
You seem to be in the mistaken impression that Felipe Melo knows how to play good football without kicking players.
I guess he’s had that reputation at Juventus and Brazil because referees and opposition players were out to get him?
As others have said and as i have said, Brazil were trying to kick Robben off the pitch from the first minute, trying to intimidate him.
Robben dived about twice at the most, the rest were legitimate fouls on his legs. Could he have remained standing on a few occasions? Probably.
But why on EARTH should a player be graceful like that to an opposition whose sole interest is in kicking you?
I say, if you insist on kicking me instead of the ball, i’ll go to ground and get you booked. Aside from a referee that’s doing his job, that’s the only remedy.
An in form torres will make spain absolutely unplayable.He gives them the directness which is the main thing lacking in their game.
Good write up, as always, but I have one reservation.
You lauded del Bosque’s and van Marwick’s attacking moves, but from my chair, I think the latter’s substitutions cost Holland the game. Replacing de Jong (even if he was walking a disciplinary tightrope) and Kuyt (after the introduction of Navas down his side) hindered Holland’s ability to get the ball back once they lost it. Similar moves against Uruguay worked, but Uruguay were playing defensively and the game was there for Holland to take, which wasn’t the case tonight.
Regarding van der Vaart, that substitution came as Spain were starting to turn the screw at the start of extra time. van Marwijk probably reasoned that Spain would not be doing so much damage if his side kept the ball better, but NO-ONE keeps it better than Spain, so what little they gained in an attacking/possession sense was more than countered with the increased pressure Spain could exert with more space. If you look at the game this way, it goes some way to explaining how Iniesta grew more influential as the game went on – by the later stages, especially the last 20 mins of extra time after van der Vaart came on, he finally had some space in which to do his thing – leading directly to the sending off and the goal.
And again, using this interpretation, you also get the nice symbolism of consecutive Dutch mistakes in trying to win the ball back, and defensive mistakes by the attacking van der Vaart in particular, leading directly to the goal.
Would like to know what others think.
Van Marwijk was ambitious (and somewhat risky) and it didn’t pay off in the end. Elia could have provided the impact that Navas provided (direct running, pace, pin Ramos back due to his pace) but it didn’t.. I must say though, Holland had some very menacing counters and it really troubled Spain (Robben’s two one-on-one’s)
I guess you’re correct about Iniesta, but VMarwijk was looking to add a bit better passing ability in the side with VdV as he passes better and is more creative than DJong… But he’s not as good defensively as DJong and hence indeed Iniesta had more freedom to roam about and eventually score…
Forza Juve got there first with an almost identical reply!
Thanks for the replies guys
Of course, anyone can be a coach with the benefit of hindsight, so I’m definitely not attacking Van Marwijk, but I don’t think he played to his side’s strengths with those changes.
To put it very crudely, if you have two teams who do similar things, whichever does that thing better will get the upper hand and probably win. Spain had real difficulty against teams that both sat back and pressed in defensive positions, so van Marwijk’s attempt to match up with Spain in terms of holding the ball was playing into Spain’s hands. Sitting back (bringing on a defensive player to double up on Navas, bringing on an enforcer to do de Jong’s job without the restriction of a yellow card) may not have been pretty, but it could have worked better because committing more Spanish players forward might have created more opportunities on the counter than were provided by possession and, for example, trying to pin Ramos and/or Navas back.
And countering is something Holland were great at: the Sneijder long ball for Robben to chase was one of their most effective weapons in the tournament, after all.
They just seemed odd moves, especially as most of what I’ve read and heard from Dutch correspondents on the Guardian’s site suggested that van Marwijk was a very defensive coach. To go on the attack in a World Cup Final, against Spain of all opponents, seemed bizarrely out of character, assuming those correspondents were well informed, of course. Can anyone shed any more light regarding van Marwijk’s reputation?
In any case, I acknowledge the facts that 1) this is all coulds and mights and 2) that inviting pressure with the aim to contain and break brings its own risks and might have backfired like it did for Germany. Perhaps the easiest conclusion is to say that the better team on the night and the superior team in general won.
Out of curiosity Bill, why don’t you rate van der Vaart? I rarely see him so I haven’t a significant opinion of my own about him, but I assumed that he was widely respected…
Well perhaps the zero-sum nature of the game has forced him to take the gamble. Also he would have assumed that the Spanish legs were tired and Elia and VdV would be able to exploit that.
Navas had been wreaking havoc down Netherlands’ left for 5-10 minutes before Kuyt was substituted. I think Van Marwijk was obliged to do something, and bringing on Elia is not unreasonable — one could certainly imagine him pinning back Ramos and Navas with his direct running, even if the match didn’t unfold that way.
It’s also hard to fault him for giving Van Der Vaart a chance. I don’t particularly rate the player, but he is certainly talented, and again, you could certainly imagine him doing something to win the match, even if it didn’t turn out that way. I think it was a chance worth taking.
I think it’s a decent point about de Jong, actually. I wasn’t necessarily saying they were the right moves, just saying it was a relief after a pretty crap opening period that they were actually looking to put attackers on.
Taking De Jong off was a mistake in hindsight. When Heitinga got sent off, Van Bommel was forced into a centre back role, leaving a large space in front of the defense. Holland’s defense has relied heavily on that shield of Van Bommel and De Jong, and without it, Spain could play in that area (their favorite area) with Fabregas and Xavi sitting on the edge of the D knocking passes around. It’s no surprise that it was Van Der Vaart who scuffed his clearance and played Iniesta onside. He’s just not as good a defender as De Jong.
Who is zonalmarking? Whoever you are you have made my tournament – sensational. What relation do you have to the Guardian? You seem to reference their articles and they always refer to you.
Here in Madrid they’re still celebrating and I am extremely happy for the Spanish. The superior team of the tournament, I thought their passing and composure on the ball was exceptional at times, and their inability to score only made their games more tense and thrilling for me, as I was never sure they weren’t going to fall behind, so I was rarely bored. Indeed as ZM has pointed out, so many of the other favourites – Brazil, Germany, Holland – relied on counter-attacking. Spain were confident and capable enough to attempt to play possession football – opponents’ negativity was the price we spectators had to pay.
The Dutch almost ruined the match for me, but I will remember this world cup as one where a remarkable team overcame adversity to demonstrate their overwhelming class, and I’m delighted as that’s quite rare in a world cup.
I agree on all accounts. Yes, ZM has made this tournament thoroughly enjoyable for me. Yes, the games were thrilling since it was never easy to get the ball in the net for the Spanish. And YES…something that impressed me enormously about the Spanish was their class, their incredible lack of fouls, and especially lack of dirty playing. On top of being talented, they seem like a team that plays for the team and wants to win ‘the right way.’ Seem like good guys too.
Let’s break that down a bit, shall we?
[x] Incredible class technically
[x] Incredible composure
[x] Incredible lack of fouls
[ ] Especially lack of dirty playing
Anyone can see how Spanish players made the most out of every contact if it serves their purpose. If falling over wasn’t enough, plan B almost always involves crowding the ref and waving cards. That’s part of playing dirty.
Thank you ZM for the outstanding WC coverage.
It will be great if you manage to keep your output for the upcoming season. At the same time I think all your readers acknowledge the tremendous effort you put into the write-ups, and wish you get more gigs such as what you did for FourFourTwo or hopefully land permanently at “big media” – therefore quenching our thirst for insightful analysis while rewarding you accordingly.
Cheers
I really hope the person doing ZM gets payed well for this. He/She deserves some good cash for this kind of brilliant journalistic talent.
I totally agree. I’d pay for a book by ZM. I love his analysis and have learned a tremendous amount from his work. ZM- thank you for teaching me so much about something I love with all of my heart.
That said. I don’t think I have ever been so tense through a match. I grew up loving Holland since I was a very young, back in 1974. My father loved them so much that he named our dog Cruyff. Until this World Cup, Holland were my favorites but now things are different. How they played was just too ugly and brutal. This marks the end of a 36 year long love affair. In truth their tactics were to spoil with intimidation and it almost worked. Spain’s midfielders and attackers are really very small. I’m glad Spain persevered. I am glad Spain won. I wonder how many more goals could have been had from a fit Torres.
We all love this site, mate.
ZM is the best site I’ve ever come across. Unbeatable!
I hated the Iniesta diving and the way Xavi and Busquets would become lawyers whenever a Spanish player goes to ground (they do it for Barca too)
The Dutch complained to the ref quite a lot too really… Especially in the game vs. Brazil (especially VBommel)… but yes, the Spanish did do that, and Iniesta fell a lil easy, but that’s what happens when you get karate-kicks in your chest and players snapping at your ankles for nearly 2 hours…
I guess they don’t like being assaulted. Pretty weird!
Well they didn’t complain when Robben dived plenty of times against Brazil.
You sure have an agenda against Robben. He’s not the most honest player, but I don’t think he dives much at all. What he does is play-act, making the slightest touch seem like assault.
I do really have something against him. I’m so sick of his play acting. I’m sorry of my poor choice of words by using only “diving”. I definitely meant play acting too.
The referee was terrible. Iniesta was barely touched on the red card incident, and the same goes for least one of the (other) yellow cards. While the dutch team was fouling the spanish team was acting. I personally think acting (lying) is the worse..
IMO the referee was really good! the Dutch player was cautioned (and warned!) before and Iniesta was on the way straight to the goal – clear red card (whether it would have been a tough foul or only a tactical one)…..
wrt the “kung fu” kick: He could have sent de Jong off straight away with a red card, but also in this scenario IMO the yellow card was acceptable and matched his way to guide this very difficult game. Yes, he could also have shown a red card for this foul, but then according to this threshold we would have had 9 Dutch players against 11 Spaniards after 30 minutes and then it would have been stated: … the ref destroyed the game, …. soccer is no syncronizing swimming …and so on …
It was a very difficult game and IMO he made the best out of it! …to argue that Netherland lost because they didn’t get the corner kick (the only obvious mistake I saw) is ridiculous…
Gotta agree with dropbear here. I don’t agree with the massive criticism aimed at the ref
Webb’s biggest mistake is to “stamp his authority” with two early yellows, then let De Jong off with a yellow. At that point his authority was salvageable if he managed to distinguish between cynical fouls with physical contact, and would still be able to stamp out diving and dissent. He did none of those things and the match spiraled out of control.
There was a comment I read about Webb months ago about how he will show several yellows early to show his authority, then make arbitrary calls during the middle of the game for the next hour, and in the final 20 minutes hand out as many yellows as possible, to prove that “hey look, I’ve had control of this match all along”.
If you look at the end of the match, that’s exactly what happened. Heitinga’s second yellow was barely there. Iniesta dived for another yellow. Two more yellows were handed out for dissent. Another yellow was given for taking off the shirt. Most of his yellows did NOT serve to stamp out poor play from the game. That’s why his game was a failure.
Heitinga got the second yellow because he fouled Iniesta on his way to the goal – no other defender between him and the goalkeeper so according to the FIFA rules it is at least a yellow, no matter whether it is a tactical foul or a sever foul: these are just the rules! …the same with the yellow card for Iniesta for taking the shirt off!
….studying a little bit the current FIFA rules might help to come to less biased conclusions
Same with the foul that Puyol conducted on Robben, but was waved off because Robben did not fall down. I know the rules. There’s no need to be condescending.
I really like the blog and most of the observations the writers make. But I absolutely do not think the Spanish were that much better than the Dutch, I thought it was fairly even, with the referee and the sub Fabregas for Alonso eventually tipping the balance towards the Spanish side. Both sides had some goalscoring opportunities and even though the Spanish dominated possession, their combinations didn’t often lead to good attacking moves, it was more a way to keep the Dutch from having the opportunity to launch quick attacks. I think most 50/50 calls went to the Spanish and I think the Dutch were treated more harshly by Webb as a way for compensating for the red card he should have given to van Bommel in the first half. I think the goal was offside, as explained by jonathan.
Fairly even? It would have been interesting to see how well the Dutch would have played if they had come out to play, football. They stayed in the game because of their clear tactic of hurting and scaring the Spanish out of their game. I guess that even things up a bit.
Sure, and give the spanish midfield the space to get through balls in. When you’re faced with a technically superior side that is more cohesive (7 players on the same team!) playing a tough game is the most important tactic you have, and I don’t see why you think it is an illegitimate one. I’m tired of the continuous negativity surrounding teams that play against Barcelona or Spain in a defensive setup. It’s the only way to beat those teams, cause they are the best at their own type of play.
I love defense! And I think it is a good tactic. I don’t agree in dirty fouls, and that was clearly part of their strategy. They wanted the Spanish to have a bit of fear every time they touched the ball, not knowing when the next (brutal) tackle would come. That I don’t like. Good defense doesn’t need to be dirty.
quote: “Good defense doesn’t need to be dirty.” … agree 100%
People should get the facts right before making such blatant comments in a public forum. Please watch the video at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0uFy23vR3s
See super slow at 1:06. Iniesta is definitely not offside during the initial pass. At best, he is in line with the last defender which is not offside.
And to even mention that Spanish contributed as much as Dutch to make the biggest sporting event on planet earth a dull affair is blatant hypocrisy. I used to like the Dutch before, but no sympathy for this performance. If football is played by thugs, the game would never have been this popular (not even a percent chance).
THE GOAL WAS A GOOD GOAL, NO CONTROVERSIES. Jobless is stating the obvious, but he has a point…and it’s not like retaliation is going to make the Spanish hand back their trophy.
I agree with u 100% on everything you’ve said, mate.
Okay, I’m going to start this debate –
I don’t see how you can say that this Spain side goes down as one of the all-time great international sides. Unless of course you’re relying heavily on their accomplishments at Euro 2008 in making that statement. But as a World Cup winning side, this Spanish team simply does not compare with some of the great sides over the years. They compare more with the Italian team that won just four years ago (although that “ultra- defensive” managed to score decidedly more goal) than they do with Brazil in ‘70 or Germany in ‘74 or even some of the great sides not to have won the trophy. Yes they were the best side at this Cup (would have liked to see them play Brazil, oh well) but they are just a very good side, not one of the greatest in history. Now that Euro 2008 side, that’s another story.
2 losses in 2 YEARS.
I honestly don’t know what more you could want.
..and all this with nearly the same players and formation ….. but as Dunga (I think he was it) said: first they want you to win, secondly it has to be convincingly, third it has to be a 6:0 and when you achieve all this they tell you that the oponent was weak
….
That’s a GREAT quote!! Can anyone else confirm who/when/the exact words?
I’m fairly sure that this Spain team will be one for the ages. I don’t think you can isolate a World Cup finals from the context. The incredible thing about Spain is that for the last two years they’ve been playing as well as they did in 2008, making almost no mistakes.
Come this World Cup finals they were slightly unlucky with the teams they played – the most defensive Portugal side I’ve ever seen and the most negative Holland side I’ve ever seen – and the low goals tally is a red herring – they should have had 6 against Honduras, and in the semi and final they created numerous chances.
Finally, I don’t think there are many teams historically who have dominated all comers to the extent that the opposition believe they have to defend very deep just to stand a chance against them. When a vast majority of players, managers, pundits and fans refer to them as being all but unbeatable, you know you’re in the presence of something special.
great quote.
That reminds me of a quote from former German national coach Berti Vogts:
“If I walk on, they will say: ‘Look he can’t swim!’”
Matt, I’m not saying they are not an excellent side, and if you want to consider them over the last few years then sure, they are a great side. I said all this in my original post. What I also said was that I don;t think their performances in this World Cup compare with some of the greatest sides of all time. In my mind, they were a noticeably better side at Euro 2008 and this team that just won the World Cup doesn’t seem that different than the Italian team last time or the Brazil team before that.
I realize that this Spainsh side could easily go on to win another Euro and even the World Cup again in four years and if they do that then I will obviously re-evaluate them, but at the present moment I just can’t put them in the same tier as the greatest sides in the sport’s history.
And to dropbear – I agree with Dunga that there is always something to criticize, but if we’re comparing Spain to the greatest teams of all time, then I think raising the bar past simply winning has to happen. After all, isn’t that why we all love football, because we love the beauty of the sport? I see no reason why looking at things beyond simply winning isn’t acceptable when debating.
Cheers.
Good point. Perhaps this Spanish side is comparable to France 98/2000? I would think that there’s no Zidane class, but there’s a better team. On a slightly different note, what do you think are the factors to support Spanish contingency (for 2012, 2014)
Err, no.
Stunning insight there. Thanks for contributing. Did you even read what I wrote?
I agree with you. In theory they could certainly be one of the all-time great international sides, and when they play their best game they are brilliant, but they’ve only managed to do that a couple of times in this World Cup. Honestly, I think their only excellent performance at this tournament was against Germany, and in several matches they were simply disappointing.
I think that ZM is combining the Euro-winning squad and the WC-winning squad in much the same way that you would say that the French side of the late 90s is one of the greatest in history, even if most people don’t mention them in the same breath as Brazil ‘70 (or ‘82) or Holland ‘74.
That I agree with. I think this Spanish squad is firmly in the second tier of all time greats. If they had played the way they did in the Euros then I think we could be talking about them in the same breath as the top tier.
Based purely on this World Cup, this Spanish side is definitely NOT one of the all-time greats.
However, this team will ALWAYS be linked with the Euro 2008 team because the players are basically the same and, more importantly, both teams played a particular, distinctive style. Add this to the fact that over 50% of the players are from a historically great club side in Barcelona and the fact that Spain has never done anything in the World Cup… this will be remembered as the Golden Age of Spanish Football.
I think there’s still more of that Golden Age to come, mate
You can’t possibly discredit the fantastic run the Spanish had. We all read how ZM talked about Brasil’s possession football, how they will tire down opponents and get the slim results…well, that implies similarly to the Spanish side as well. It doesn’t matter if it’s 9-0 or 1-0. A win is a win.
oh ho, now Spain looks pragmatic too
It’s hard to compare to the past- the game today is at a much faster pace and the quality of the opposition is far deeper. As I said in another post, the games that we find memorable for great offensive play are often games where the opposition defense is weak (not an amazing offense finding a way through an equally excellent defense). It’s quite likely some of the great sides of the past would be blown away by any number of modern teams, because of better training and tactics.
That Spain has compiled the dominant record they have *in the modern era* makes it even the more remarkable.
Well, I was talking about including the ‘08 and the ‘10 side together, and taking the last four years as a block. If you do that, their results have been astounding and they’ve won two major tournaments.
Speaking of overrating…
Why are people overrating Brazil so much?
They have class players up front and THAT’S IT. Maybe Maicon too.
They play three holding midfielders because Dunga likes ‘em like that. How can a nation with such a great talent pool play such chicken?
They play with Michel Bastos, who was deemed not good enough for Excelsior Rotterdam several years ago.
Robinho is playing in Brazil because European top sides don’t care. How long did he end up making good on his salary at Man City? Half a season?
They left Adriano and Ronaldinho at home because Adriano’s a drunk and Ronaldinho is fat.
Brazil have been eliminated in two quarter finals in a row. That’s not without reason. That’s because they’re simply not that good.
Brazil doesn’t come anywhere near the class sides they used to have. For the good of football i can only hope Leonardo will start selecting good players again and not play like dunga.
P.S. The same can be said for Holland. Individual spells from Sneijder or Robben will only get you so far for so long.
lol! hilarious comment, mate. And you make some fair points as well.
Thanks.
Hope i have entertained you more than the Dutch squad has.
FIFA ratings are perfectly objective and based on games played. ‘People’ didn’t overrate Brazil (many didn’t favor them to win including myself, they did make the semifinal). The FIFA rating formula looks at the last 4 years of performances and based upon that, which includes winning the 2007 Copa America, winning the 2009 confederations cup and finishing first in CONMEBOL qualifying, Brazil were the world’s best. Spain was ranked second due to their disappointing 3rd place confederations cup finish and their round of 16 exit in the 2006 World Cup. World Cup [4 pts] and Confederations Cup [3 pts] results count more than qualifiers [2.5 pts] and friendlies [1 pt].
Paul, the Netherlands have mostly spent time being in the top 4 or 5 of that “rating” since the beginning, yet when have they ever won anything?
They didn’t get close in 2006, they didn’t get close in 2008, and they were massively lucky to get to the finals this time.
Their ratings were decided mostly thanks to constant wins against utterly beatable teams. Not because they are so great when it really matters.
Maybe you are making the mistake of thinking that i think Brazil is worthless. I’ve never said that.
I said they are overrated. People kept saying they were favorites for the title. Nonsense. Spain were always the favorites. Germany played a lot better too.
When you analyze Brazil, what do you see? You see Robinho who couldn’t ever really cut it in Europe (thus far), Kaka who hasn’t been himself for a long while now. They play three holding midfielders because obviously they don’t have faith in their defensive capabilities without such cowardly midfield. They have a left-back who wasn’t good enough for Excelsior Rotterdam a couple of years ago. And now he’s supposed to be class all of a sudden?
They were eliminated in the QF two WC tournaments in a row.
Who cares if they won the Copa America? South America has only two real top nations and one of them just got thrashed 4-0 by Germany, who themselves got completely outplayed by Spain.
Brazil is overrated, Paul. They are not anywhere near the world’s best right now. They would have probably used “Dutch tactics” had they been in the final, because if there is something i think Brazilians would not be able to stand, it is being outpassed and outplayed.
I very much agree with your point ZM, the substitution’s did possess an attacking motive for which the manager’s should be praised. The true difference between the winning and the losing side was made by those decisions; v. der Vaart’s natural positioning higher up the pitch exposed the space covered by De Jong for most of the match, this I felt resulted in the Dutch’s loss of control over the game, Jesus had space to run into for his chance which deflected wide, Fabregas was given a through ball late in the match from that right midfield position covered by De Jong (Jesus and Fabregas both of whom were substitutes themselves), and where a more defensively disciplined De Jong would have caught Iniesta offside or aleast have marked his man tight, v. der Vaart could only clutch his head in agony as the closest man to Iniesta when the ball went in. But there is of coarse the argument that De Jong may not have provided his sharpest performance after 116 minutes played.
Great stuff ZM!
Same thoughts too. Also the subbing on of Brafheid (he was at a position further to Iniesta than Mathijsen when the ball was played??) probably put the nail on the Dutch’s coffin.
haha i recalled the commentator said some thing like ‘Wow on Brafheid entering the field, maybe the coach know something we dont know off about him’ hahaha
personally i think the change is to get prepared for the penalty shoot out, and to get a fresh-without-card player to enter the field and do some menace to delay the game. Dirty tactic~
The moment Brafheid came on I also wondered why he was subbed. Especially since I recall v. Bronckhorst made several crucial clearances in the ten or fifteen minutes before him being substituted.
Just before the goal, he got totally pulled out of position.
Van Bronckhorst suffered from cramps and didn’t feel he could continue playing.
I’d love to know why the Dutch, Italians, South Americans etc get criticism for diving and complaining, but Spain get a free pass? I can’t stand watching Xavi and Iniesta constantly moaning and flopping about, but never getting called out on it.
They rarely dive. They do often exaggerate fouls, but that’s rather different. And when those fouls include attempts to break their ribs, it’s hard to blame them.
Exaggerating fouls is one thing. Iniesta clearly dove once, and he very greatly exaggerated a tap on the shoulder to get the second yellow(red). Now, I’m not saying the dutch weren’t brutal. I hate to see a second yellow off of what I see as a dive. I haven’t seen it thirty times, but the four times I saw the foul it seemed a dive more than anything else.
well because they dont do it for the whole tournament, haha. The dutch were relying on such tactics so much, when they come up with the opponent that do the same thing, they can finally know how it feel to be in the receiving end. If u lucky enough to listen to the match field audio (because of the Vuvuzelas), all this while the dutch players will scream like girls the moment anyone touched their leg and dive for the oscar. Thats why the hate
and thats why Felipe Melo cant stand it in my oppinion.
Had the referee given a red card in the first half for that karate kick, may be Spain would have taken a lead much earlier and they would not have bothered that much about the free kicks.
Yep! I hate that lying babyface. He is such a bad example. Iniesta should clearly have been sent off before he got yet another chance to score. Of course he is a gifted player, but certainly overrated, and like the others: a very poor striker.
He’s scored a goal to win a CL SF and a WC F. What have you done in your life?
The real shame is that most referees will only blow the whistle if the players fall down. If Robben would have gone done when Puyol attacked him, Webb would have surely given the foul!
…in most games Spain had/has distinct more ball possession so indeed they get fouled more often than they commit fouls …BTW: also by statistics Spain is one of the fairest teams…
Spain don’t dive when teams play them head to head. They are happy to pass, attack and defend with class and style. If a team resorts to ugly fouls part of your job is to make sure the refs see at least half of what is going down. It blows my mind that folks could take any sort of pride or joy in the sort of football being played by this Dutch side.
e.g. Germany-Spain was one of the fairest games, no nasty foul or what ever, but still great sport….
Yeah the Germany Spain was a good match. Class shown by both sides and no rough fouls.
Holland has a Jekyll/Hyde thing going on. If you look at the friendly they played against Hungary immediately prior to the World Cup, they walloped them by playing slick open overlapping positive first-touch football. For the World Cup, against decidedly more difficult opponents, Holland played as negative as they felt necessary to win. It’s a shame they didn’t come out to play a positive game today.
I guess this statistic says it all
: http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/statistics/teams/disciplinary.html
How can Spanish fans say that their team is classy and fair when they have douches and thugs like Busquets and Puyol as well as the ref pressure-cooker (JT/Ballack anyone) Xavi?
At least the Dutch fans admit to VBM’s dirtiness and Robben’s theatrics and did not attempt to find excuses.
I’ll admit it.
Van Bommel and De Jong played like thugs and should have been sent off, and Robben has a tendency to whine like a little girl even if he is tackled or when a decision goes against him.
I won’t get my hopes up at Spanish fans admitting that Xavi is a whiner and appealer for bookings though.
Maybe it’s because we actually expect a lot better from Holland while Spanish fans are used to that sort of thing.
I also wonder why i haven’t heard many people about Puyol’s hacking down Robben at the ankles early in the match. Speaking about thuggery.
Wow. Insightful comment.
Not nearly as insightful as yours.
Actually they do the same thing in Barcelona. Fergie ever said that swarm around referee is German style,…well I respectfully disagree. That technique and put some Puss-In-Boots face is so Barca/Spain.
Well said.
Actually it’s Italian and it’s got a name: ‘Guerra Tactica’. It’s about constantly putting pressure on the ref to favour you (mostly subconsciously) on future decisions
Did I read this right? The right honourable Sir Alex complaining about players swarming the referee? ROTFL
SAF is never wrong.
He’s totally not mad, either.
The comment SAF made about that unfit referee last season was acually justified. But people like to bash SAF , so they went along with the backlash.
Not to mention the number of times the Spanish players were asking the ref to give yellows. I have seen refs give yellow to the players demanding the yellow. Not this match though.
ya simply because refs are told to stick to one line of disciplining during a match. i´m sure he saw the terrible fouls for which he only gave away yellows (at least 1 of them was clear red, and some refs would have given reds for the other two as well) in half time, and thats why he tried to stick to his line and not give yellow cards for such things. btw: what about robben shooting the ball in the net 15 secs after the ref called offside? that’d have been a red card..
Robben obviously didn’t hear the whistle because of the vuvuzela’s
. I agree though, ref could have given a yellow for that, I remember a Spanish player also shooting at goal after the whistle though.
Opinion in the Netherlands seems to be as well that Webb should have been much stricter from the start instead of starting the weighing of decisions against previous actions. I thought the ref had a poor poor game with mistakes on both sides (obvious red card for de Jong for example) and also the Puyol foul on Robben (the second yellow for Heitinga was a much lighter offence then the one Puyol made on Robben). But with 10 against 11 in the first half the result should have been the same I’m afraid, the best team won.
Agreed, they completely get away without criticism. Every football player “dives” – as in exaggerates contact to get a free kick awarded. In that final there was precious few cases of players throwing themselves to the ground without a foul first and I think Iniesta was probably guilt of that one going towards the left corner flag, but there may have been slight contact.
Thats the way football is these days – its the status quo that has been accepted by players, referees and administrators and they will have to seriously change their approach to the game in order to change the culture of ALL players (not just latin, Germans, etc, English just as guilty as the next). For example, judging by the general response here and in the media, Robben would have heavily criticised (because of his reputation) if he had taken the option of going to ground when Puyol’s attempted rugby tackle (and straight red card offence) took him out of his stride in the 2nd one-on-one. Its a clear foul and regardless of Robben staying on his feet a freekick should have been awarded. But the culture of the game is “if you stay on your feet, its not a foul.”
In general I thought Webb had a good game despite the players (heavy tackles from the Dutch especially) but the only real boo-boo was not sending De Jong off. He’s such an instinctively nast tackler by nature that its hard to tell whether his karate kick was malicious or just extremely careless – either way that stuff can’t be tolerated.
This histrionic vilification of an extremely talented Dutch team that has gone two years unbeaten is extremely tiresome – constantly being labelled “a disgrace” by Hansen, etc and “it would have been a dark day for football had they won” [RTE coverage] – bollocks. France and Italy are disgraces. England are a disgrace.
This Dutch team are hard, a bit nasty and also extremely talented and well organized – and eventually they were beaten by the better team, the best in the world – but they are by no means evil or disgraceful.
I’m a bit too young for it, but has Alan Hansen been the type of player that has never crossed the line to win a game?
Somehow i just cannot see that.
Furthermore, this is a guy who sees horror tackles virtually every week in the Premier League. I mean, two footed, studs forward, shin height tackles.
England plays the WC and leave through the back door because of a pure lack of desire and determination, something which Hansen must find a necessity of any true world class player. Yet Holland is a disgrace?
I have no problem with justified criticism. But i am desperately sick and tired of a bunch of hypocrites whining about Holland as if it is the nastiest, dirties team in world cup history.
A “dark day” for football if Holland won? Well i guess Holland better forget about entertaining the masses for another four decades with positive, attacking football then, since obviously that sort of thing is so EASILY forgotten completely just as soon as Holland for once, and only once, decide to switch tactics to finally win some gold.
As a player who loved playing defence, I can honestly say I would not be happy winning in the way they played. I think their lack of class was unacceptable, and probably largely influenced by their coach. It would have been a sad day if the Dutch won. No doubt in my mind.
I’m not happy with the performances either.
But i would have made an exception for the final when it comes to tactics. Not talking about the dirtiness, there is no place for that.
My problem, again, is not with legitimate criticism, but with the negative hyperbole.
Internazionale basically won the Champion’s League with this style but i don’t recall all that much whining about it, or people claiming it was a “dark day” for football. Mourinho is loved as a manager but when on Earth has he given the world exciting, positive football?
Yet when Holland, whom always have, decide to adopt a more realistic approach just for once it sounds as if the anti-Christ would have been born had Holland won the final.
To be perfectly honest, i would have figured that at the least more people would have said: “well, they’ve entertained us since the 70s, so let them get on with it just this once and get the prize as a sort of lifetime achievement award.”
But looking at the overbearing negativity not simply on the thuggishness (which is richly deserved), but the stifling tactics themselves, and it seems clear to me that playing to entertain really may serve no purpose whatsoever if it is so easily forgotten because the world’s new darlings Spain have played some great football for all of TWO years, and Holland just for once decided to adapt to a side it recognizes as their superiors in the technical department.
I’ve known playing positive may win you no rewards. Now i’m starting to see it will win you no gratitude either. People seem to demand Holland play positive at all times even if it means complete suicide, and otherwise it would be a “dark day” if they don’t and manage to win a game.
@Tony. I don’t remember INter kicking Chelsea and Barcelona players on the way to the final. Nor even the Bayern players. In fact I more clearly remember Sergio ‘peek-a-boo’ Busquets than any over the top Dutch nonsense from Inter.
Being defensive does not mean being violent. Inter were defensive and they did it in style. The dutch were defensive by kicking their opposition. Big difference.
Just wanted to add to the chorus of praise for Zonal Marking. This was a profoundly different World Cup for me, mostly because of the articles and discussions on this site.
[Maybe reading Jonathan Wilson's book will help me deal with my World Cup withdrawals...which have already started].
Well, first off, hats off to ZM for the best WC coverage from a pure football standpoint (not that entertainment crap and terrible commentary on German TV and media throughout). Keep it up, whoever you are.
The Dutch were disgraceful today, especially in the first half. I agree with the assessment that physical play might have been their lone chance to keep up, but is that “playing the game the right way”? Webb was ok though, the outcome should not be tied to him.
However, the Dutch pressing was much better and more effective than the more timid approach displayed by Germany in the semi-final. Maybe they missed Ballack after all?
I liked it when Robben and van Persie exchanged positions, with the former being up front. Seemed to bother Spain. Elia was useless as a sub, but worth trying I suppose. His turnovers are typical for such a young winger, he’s do-or-die in the Bundesliga as well.
Another major flaw of the Dutch side is their lack of solid build-up play from the back four, especially Mathijsen/Heitinga. This hoofing-it-up-the-pitch played into their opponents’ cards – I hope they have some CB talents waiting for their turn.
By the way, Spain covered about 2 km more distance than the Netherlands. In the game against Germany, it was the other way around..hmm..
Oh and on a sidenote, loving it that Forlan was voted player of the tournament. He’s been magnificient.
“Oh and on a sidenote, loving it that Forlan was voted player of the tournament. He’s been magnificient.”
Reply
Amen to that! Forlan,scorer of goals (some fantastic).Does he have a weak foot? And think, did you see him: dive, foul, moan, mumble, scream at his own or opposing team players,say anything to the ref? Even once? Forlan has the opposite spirit to the spirit that has been exibited by many players and seems to represent this tournament.
Vive Forlan!
I am a Holland supporter but I think that Nigel de Jong should have been sent off and game over…(and, the intent to remove Xabi from the game wasn’t even neccesary- Holland were coping, certainly a lot better than Germany- IF you are sick enough to think that you are justified in using such tactics.
ZM:
thanks for brilliant coverage of the tournament. this website, along with jonathan wilson’s articles at SI and guardian are pretty much all i bother reading any more about the beautiful game. hope you’re going to do a feature on your team of the tournament. to kick things off, here’s mine:
iker casillas
philip lahm
jorge fucile
diego lugano
gerard pique
bastian schweinsteiger
thomas muller
diego perez
david villa
diego forlan
andres iniesta
thanks again and already looking forward to your coverage of the upcoming season.
I think an Argentine and a Brasilian deserve to be on there, mate.
Thank you so much for the WC articles ZM. Have learned a lot actually.
On your WC team, I would agree all the way for Iker, Lugano, Pique, bastian, Muller, Forlan and Iniesta. Well, Maicon, Messi and Xavi
Iker
Maicon,Pique, Lugano,V.Brockenhorst,
Bastian/Busquests, Xavi, Iniesta/Muller,
Messi/Ozil, Forlan & Villa
Many thanks for the compliments.
GK: Diego Bernaglio (SWI)/ Iker Casillas (ESP)/ Eduardo (POR)/ Manuel Neuer (GER)/ Vincent Eneyema (NIG)/ Richard Kingson (GHA)
RB: Sergio Ramos (ESP)/ Philipp Lahm (GER)/ Maicon (BRA)
RCB: Yuji Nakazawa (JAP)/ Ricardo Carvalho (POR)/ Lucio (BRA)/ Gerard Pique (ESP)/ Paulo da Silva (PAR)/ Joris Mathijsen (NED)/ Stephane Grichting (SWI)
LCB: Carles Puyol (ESP)/ Diego Lugano (URU)/ Bruno Alves (POR)/ John Mensah (GHA)/ Tulio (JAP)/ Majid Bougherra (ALG)/ Antonio Alcaraz (PAR)
LB: Joan Capdevila(ESP) / Fabio Coentrao (POR)/ Nadir Belhadj (ALG)/ Carlos Salcido (MEX)/ Yuto Nagatomo (JAP)
CDM: Sergio Busquets (ESP)/ Sami Khedira (GER)/ Mark van Bommel (NED)/ Anthony Annan (GHA)/ Javier Mascherano (ARG)
CDM: Bastian Schweinsteiger (GER)/ Xabi Alonso (ESP)/ Kevin Prince Boateng (GHA)/ Felipe Melo (BRA)/ Xavi (ESP)
RWM: Thomas Mueller (GER)/ Andres Iniesta (ESP)/ Arjen Robben (NED)/ Alexis Sanchez (CHI)/ Giovani Dos Santos (MEX)
CAM: Wesley Sneijder (NED)/ Mesut Oezil (GER)/ Diego Forlan (URU)/ Xavi (ESP)/ Keisuke Honda (JAP)
LW: David Villa (ESP)/ Andres Iniesta (ESP)/ Robinho (BRA)/ Dirk Kuyt (NED)/ Carlos Tevez (ARG)
CF: Diego Forlan (URU)/ David Villa (ESP)/ Luiz Suarez (URU)/ Miroslav Klose (GER)/ Asamoah Gyan (GHA)/ Luis Fabiano (BRA)
No Dutch players??? isn`t that too harsh?
spain’s high defensive line felt a little too high considering puyol’s lack of pace. robben certainly wasted the through-balls that took advantage of that.
You mean Pique’s lack of pace and concentration. Both balls were slipped to Robben when Pique was the closest. Puyol was Spain’s fastest player on the pitch after Navas but not as fast as Robben so he wasn’t able to get back in time for the second through-ball.
I’m really surprised by the lack of understanding about the ref’s job demonstrated by both ZM readers AND the Dutch squad. If the ref overlooks one or two possible red cards OF COURSE he’s going to call the Dutch more tightly for the rest of the game. That’s how it works! Does van Bommel get this? Of course not. But you’d think someone on the Dutch side would.
That the Dutch side showed no recognition of Webb’s initial leniency shows how dumb a game they played. If the Dutch play a cleaner second half, my guess is that Puyol gets called for a foul on Robben.
I’m not sure what you mean there.
I think what he’s trying to say is that Howard Webb was lenient with Puyol out of some sort of obligation, because he’d also been lenient with Holland. Had he sent off Puyol he would have seemed in Holland’s pocket.
If Holland hadn’t given Webb any reason to keep players on the pitch that shouldn’t have been (for the good of the game or whatever) he would have had more initiative to give Puyol his marching orders. Now he’s had to even things out.
ZM:
Not referring to you! Only to those who are under the impression that Spain “got all the calls.” My point is that of course the Spanish will get more calls after Webb has allowed the Dutch to keep playing with eleven men.
Looking at each call (and “dive”) out of context is impossible, but I think Dutch fans try to do that. Would Iniesta go to ground so easily in the end if he had not been slaughtered throughout by van Bommel? I say no.
For Webb, the second hald was a result of the first half, and should be looked at as such.
I understand that the lenient decisions in the first 30 minutes had an influence on Webb’s refereeing later on in the game, but he simply overcompensated, after some time he should’ve realised that he had compensated enough. All the 50/50 calls went Spain’s way. Iniesta could have had a number of yellow cards and should’ve been sent off before his goal, while Puyol could’ve had a second yellow on more than one occasion. On the other hand, it would’ve been entirely reasonable not to give Heitinga, Van der Wiel, and Van Bronckhorst their (first) bookings.
Uh, that’s NOT how it works. The ref should call it like he see it. There shouldn’t be reputation or agenda or “make up calls” involved. Period.
A really poor game if you think it was a football match may a great game if you think it was a rugby game. the game would be remembered because it was a final otherwise very disappointing game. that y i would have loved to see brazil istead of netherland.
as i commented in preview coloumn that a game will be won by the side having better quailty and temprament or may be a bit of luck. dutch would have been lucky had robben scored from his chances but spain were always better in quality and edged out the dutch as far as temprament is concerned.
Can we now get $100 mil for Fabregas?
ZM, thanks for the write ups. You made our WC additionally pleasant.
The best team won.
Peace,
Go Gooners; go Serbia…
xavi will be pleased if fab goes to barca
When the final whistle blew at 120 minutes plus extra-time, I could see the most beautiful pictures one could see on a football field. The high emotions, feeling of triumph, of loss, of victory and of defeat. All the basic human emotions poured on the pitch, they always do in a football match, but this one had a feeling of a climax to it. Ofcourse, it was the final of the world cup.
And so was I zapped, again, with more love for my beautiful game. Love is magnetic and rubs on people. So when the Spanish fans hugged their Holland brethren and their African counterparts, caste, creed and race looked really unimportant. And for once the battle lines that have been drawn up by different clubs did not seem to exist. So Iker Casillas was no longer a Real Madrid player, Puyol no longer the Barcelona player and Fabregas no longer the Arsenal player. The more they hugged each other, they more I felt overwhelmed. No longer the players looked painted in different colours chosen by their clubs, but were covered in one colour, the Spanish colour. Suddenly the vuvuzela does not look as bad. If this is what football can offer, can we have more of it please, specially in places where survival is an art, not a choice. Viva la football.
I am sorry. Not exactly a post that could add to the tactical discussions, but perhaps if anyone can understand these emotions, then its only us- the football freaks.
And last but not the least, a heartfelt ‘Thankyou’ to ZM, for making my world cup experience, an enriching one.
Great comment, mate.
Thanks buddy.
the refree did a good job. the dutch used the same tactics against brazil but on that occasion the refree was too soft and so the dutch must have thought that this is the way to tackle quality wise for more superior sides but the this time theref did decent job otherwise they may have been down to 5-6 men by the end of 90 mins
A superb showing from Casillas, who deserves the award for best goalkeeper of the tournament. The second half one-on-one he had versus Robben was like a wild west duel, remaining on his feet until the very last second. Why Robben didn’t simply dribble to his right and tap in, is puzzling. He was clear of the last defender and had the space to move out of Casillas’ range.
Nerves, mate. Biggest stage in the world.
That was a great save. Casillas saved the world cup for Spain with that display.
Robben lacks intelligence (don’t know the precise word, in Dutch we say “overzicht” which literally means overseight). That’s also why he often doesn’t see the better option when he cuts inside.
He could’ve also chipped the GK.
I thought at Bayern this year he made a great improvement, in doing way more than dribbling. Apart from penalty and other free kicks, he has also been passing and making others score goals.
None of this during the world cup. Or, in Orange all over?
Yesterday he didn’t play well. Wasn’t free (perhaps still the injury?). Some rushes from the half way line, not much of success. Didn’t surprise me when he missed the two big chances (or forgot to tumble).
To be honest i’ve seen a lot of typical ego-driven Robben attempts at Bayern as well. Not a lot of criticism can be given if he scores, though.
Maybe he was a bit better overall at Bayern and in that case i think the discipline of Louis Van Gaal may have something to do with it.
Somehow i don’t think Bert Van Marwijk would be capable of giving Robben the hair-dryer treatment for constantly going for own glory.
Remember what Van Gaal did when Robben was subbed and acted petulantly? He nipped that whining in the bud immediately.
Then look at Van Marwijk vs. Van Persie. Full of understanding for Van Persie’s petulant behavior. Notice how he was never subbed prematurely since then, no matter how badly Van Persie played. (i’m not counting being subbed 5 minutes before time)
Also, Robin wanted to play on number ‘9′, and he got his wish immediately.
Van Marwijk also told the media that he had warned Nigel de Jong about his violent behavior on the pitch, but absolutely no improvement could be seen and De Jong even stated in the media he had no intention of changing his ways.
I think in the end it is fairly easy for the players to take Van Marwijk for a ride and continue doing whatever they like.
Holland’s persistence in using inverted wingers with Van Persie was one of the main reasons they struggled to create any chances beyond long punts to robben.
Van persie was the wrong striker for the current system. With inverted wingers and balls played on the ground through the center, he almost never receives the ball facing the goal. He does not play well with his back facing the goal. Huntelaar does. RVP’s tendency is to drop deeper to receive the ball, then leaving no one in dangerous positions to pass to. He’s also a negative influence on team morale, having spent the period after beating Uruguay sulking on the bench while the rest of the team applauded the fans.
Spain’s weak links in defense if any, would have been Capdevila and Ramos’s positional indiscipline. Robben on the right did not take advantage of this. He cuts in, as everyone knows he will, and pique or puyol cover capdevila. Kuyt on the left does not provide width, as he cuts in as well, and does not have a good enough left foot to cross or cut back to create truly dangerous chances. I did not see any chances Holland created this world cup from wingers cutting passes back from the byeline, and that wouldn’t be an issue except that Van Persie needs those types of passes to score, as his hold up game is so poor.
The system of 2 DMs worked to get holland to the final, but they would not have worked against spain. De Jong is an ok destroyer but even if he recovers the ball, spain will press him immediately, and he does not have good enough ball control and passing smarts to maintain composure. The less said about his propensity for chest height tackles the better.
Van Der Vaart should have started, and of all the games so far, he has been by far, the smartest runner off the ball in this Dutch team. He was the player that played Iniesta on for the goal and attempted the last ditch block, but let’s face it, he’s no center back.
It stands to reason that Van Marwijk chose not to risk changing the system that has gotten him so far. It worked reasonably well on every other team, but Spain was not every other team. The only chance of that happening would have been if they had conceded early in the game with complete domination.
Throughout the tournament, I couldn’t shake the feeling that this was so far removed from the swashbuckling euro 2008 side, despite most of the personnel being the same, albeit 2 years older. Can only wonder what could have been if they had borrowed the resilience of the 2010 version with the flair of the 2008 team.
This formation would have given us a much better looking final.
Shame.
———————huntelaar/kuyt——————
——Robben————-sneijder—–affelay/elia——
——————–Van Der Vaart——————–
———————Van Bommel——————–
——-Van Bronkhorst-Mathison-Heitinga-Van Der Wiel
ZM:
Sign this guy up! Nicely done.
Jon
Except that there’s no Van Persie in that formation, it sounds ok.
Kuyt as a lone, central striker? No way.
Van Pummel alone in front of the back four? Veto that.
Kuyt would have done much better considering what is expected of the lone striker.
He is not supposed to trick players but stand with his back to the goal, work hard, pull defenders with him and open spaces.
There is nobody else that can fill this specific role, including Huntelaar whose quality is not target-man either but poacher.
And Van Bommel can’t play alone in front of the defense line?
So who was that playing alongside him in the entire second half of the semi-final game against Uruguay?
Being an Arsenal season ticket holder for too many years to mention, i concur 100% with the above,van Persie has improved so much as a front man but will never be the 1 in the 4-2-3-1 formation you would have got more out of him playing in the 3 on the left or right with either of your choice of the front man.Arsene has big problems this year with both his set up for the bigger games and how he is going to use his new players one thing i will say about RVP is that he is class and the way he has improved his right foot over the last two years is down to his talent and hard work.
Wouldnt you say the same about Spain as well? David villa also plays better when he cuts in. and not as a centre forward. His height is probably the main reason. As soon as Spain played 4-2-3-1 he just stopped scoring. And about Holland having wingers that cut in, so does Spain in Iniesta and Pedro. Even Navas cuts in although he is more of a winger than them.
nice site- really indepth analysis, had to post this thread because i observed the seemingly omission of a very important aspect of the game “player psyche” which brings me to the curious case “paul the oracle Octopus”
football is a psychological game as well as physical/tactical and the moment a team starts missing clearcut chances i.e the Robben misses, chances are deep down in the players minds they would be thinking maybe the fates are against us afterall. which inadvertently affects performance.
ZM:
Thanks for the high quality analysis. Just wanted to post a question: Where do you think the game is heading? Are we in for mostly defensive mental/tactical battles in future tournaments rather than more up-tempo/attack-minded games?
Was watching games from the 98 WC, and can’t help but think that the tightening of the rules to protect the attack minded players has led to a gradual shift away from the open style of play over the years. (Generating a shift from more man-marking to more zonal-marking, from more physical play to more positional play, which have not made games more pleasing to the eye in many respects.) What do you think? But some may just argue that games are not as good cuz the players aren’t as good as they use to be
I’m anticipating a defensive-minded season, certainly in the Premiership. Long term? Who knows, that’s the fun I suppose…
im a bit surprised for all this tactical analysis it misses the glaringly obvious fact that van bronckhorst should not have been subbed and his replacement drifted way out of position for the goal allowing iniesta to score.
He said he was injured and had to come off.
What about Kuyt? After his substitution Holland’s midfield took a great hit and didn’t control the ball / press effectively at all for the remainder of the game. Plus, he was one of the few Dutch who hadn’t been booked at that time. I didn’t understand that sub at all.
And again, thanks to ZM for your brilliant site! Keep up the good work.
Yeah, as a Celtic fan (the team which Edson Braafheid – Bronckhorst’s replacement – was on loan at for the latter part of last season) I had to laugh when he came on. Given that he had managed to totally sell games against Aberdeen (with a crazy handball at 4-2 up) and St Mirren I wasn’t surprised when his awful positioning managed to lose his team the World Cup Final.
The idea of that guy having a world cup runner’s up medal is terrifying – though he might have got one better if he hadn’t come on as a sub. Thank god he won’t be returning next season.
Oh you stingy Scotts
Everybody in Munich was hoping you would keep him.. Now we have to look for some other fools to sell him to.
Dear ZM,
I hereby declare you MVA (Most-Valueable-Analyst) of the WC 2010. Only the psychic octopus came close – only with his tactical explanations too difficult to comprehend.
Thank you for giving your insights to us so freely. Tremendous performance. Thanks to you, I see a game pretty much different now. Unbe-f-lievable good job and a hefty workload.
Zm,
I really can’t thank you enough!
I never really liked football because almost all coverage is dumbed down and the most important player is always the one who scores. Thanks for showing me otherwise and making this WC a very enjoyable watch.
My overall rating of Holland after this tournament:
Stekelenburg (GK): Had a poor game against Uruguay, but was near-perfect in the other games. 8
v.d.Wiel (RB): Was poor against Slovakia, and started poorly against Spain. Is young an can improve further. 6+
Heitinga (RCB): Did okay i guess. Not impressed with him defensively. And seems to be getting poorer at build-up play with each season. Started out his career as a great passer. What happened there? 6+
Mathijsen (LCB): Reverse of Heitinga. Seems to be getting better each year. Don’t recall any bad game. Did his job. 7
v.Bronckhorst (LB): Was marked to be the poorest for his age and bad season at Feyenoord. Exceeded expectation hugely and was the best in the back line. 8
v.Bommel (DMC): Started out great. Started needing theatrics and thuggery as tournament progressed. Got the job done though. 7+
De Jong (DMC): Did okay when he wasn’t kicking anyone. Holland was waiting for that daft sending off to happen and he got lucky against Denmark as well as Spain. As far as i’m concerned he should be excluded from the squad as his nasty behavior completely overshadows any positive influence on the game. Van Bommel can destroy and play football. De Jong can just destroy. 6
Robben (RW): Was not totally fit. Still scared the bejeezus out of opponents and Brazil could only kick him. The biggest offensive threat in the Dutch side but lacks intelligence and teamwork ethics. A Dutch center forward’s worst nightmare if he plays on the right wing. 7+
Sneijder (AMC): Scored many goals. Had a few great through balls. But overall went for his own glory way too much and pretended mostly that v.Persie didn’t even exist. A playmaker should make play, not try to win golden ball himself. Therefor i rate him much lower than others would. 7
Kuyt (AML): Primarily defensive. A neutralizer of attacking wingbacks. Offensively he lacks pace and trickery so he can only do good when he’s in space. Works like a horse. 7
v.Persie (FC): Severely isolated because of the formation in the midst of two ego-driven players and one who is mostly tracking back. However, when he did have the player he did NOTHING with it. In my opinion, relative to the praise of his talent by Dutch media and pundits, Van Persie is severely overrated. His body cannot do what his mind may want. Only flicks work out well because his body is not required to be agile for it. 4+
***
Elia (LW): Started out with a great sub-turn against Denmark. Didn’t show anything in any of the other sub-turns but then again, didn’t get provided with anything substantial either. 6-
Huntelaar (SC): Scored against Cameroon. Show horrible lack of tempo against Brazil in a three on one situation. 6
********************
Final note: i think Holland got lucky on many occasions to reach the final. The goal against Japan. The missed chances of Slovakia. Own goal by Brazil, being outplayed in the 1st half, munchkin Sneijder free to head, and sending off in the Brazil game. Being in a relatively easy part of the schedule (Slovakia and Uruguay on the road to final, whereas Germany had England, Argentina and Spain). Also, playing fairly badly and still squeezing out wins.
Despite the spot in the finals, a tournament to quickly forget. Losing in the final did remarkably not upset me at all as we never deserved it anyway.
Yes, i’m a romantic. I need something worth looking at. Sue me.
Tony, did you by accident forget to mention Van der Vaart?
My hopes were on him, before the start of the tournament, with his number 23. But he wasn’t allowed to play central so it became easy to squeeze him out of the team. And Van Persie wasn’t important enough to demand for Rafa to play with him – the others don’t (for whatever reasons).
Sneijder likes to counter attack with Robben (and perhaps Elia, see the Denmark match). Van Persie combines with Van der Vaart (and Affelay). Van Marwijk prefers to play Kuyt. No real choice was made, except to play all three cards half.
Yes, it was an accident.
But too be honest with you i would have given him a 5. He is a potentially great player but he never seems to show it with Holland. Most of the time he is totally anonymous.
He is best behind the striker because he is a team player (unlike Sneijder IMHO) and you could see that against Cameroon. If both Sneijder and v.d.Vaart play, i would put Sneijder next to v.Bommel instead of the other way around, because Sneijder has a great long distance pass but is both too ego-driven for teamwork near the opposition’s box (he goes for the shot way too quickly), and his short passing and combination football is not as good as his long pass i think. I think in THAT position (AMC) he would not be so impressive if he was playing for Spain, where there is quick, short passing and moving and lots of teamplay. V.D.Vaart may actually fit much better in the Spanish team because they play through the center a lot anyway and his first touch is great.
Another reason i would not put Rafael next to Van Bommel is because Sneijder has more aggression and because Rafael is too slow to defend against opponents running past him.
Rafael is also too slow for the wing, and will look to be part of play which means he will always drift to the middle.
The problem of this Dutch team is that it is adapted to two players way too much (Robben, Sneijder) at the expense of everybody and everything else. Also, we lack at least one top quality winger (this Kuyt as defensive winger needs to go, offensively he is just not meaningful enough), and in the coming years we will have a drought on two more positions. The left-back position now that Giovanni is retired (Braafheid, Emmanuelson and Vurnon Anita are woeful defensively), and the striker position, where we only have Huntelaar and he’s not world class either, being fish nor fowl. He has one great quality and that’s being in the right place in the right time. But aside from that he’s no great header, he’s not speedy, he’s not tricky, he doesn’t really have a good long shot (like Forlan does), he’s not technically gifted and he’s not the strongest. I’m amazed he’s scored as much as he has.
Fair ratings there. But I think Van Persie deserves slightly more considering -
a) Sneijder won’t pass to him.
b) Robben won’t pass period.
He made a great dummy run to give space for Robben down the middle, and generally had a good first touch against Spain. It just seemed as though he did nothing with it because he honestly had no one to give the ball to. I almost felt sorry for him by the end of the tournament, but I suppose he has still been a disappointment.
I’ve come to realize that, Camzy.
But when i hear, and read, how amazingly technically gifted he is and is a world class talent, i have to look at his influence as well as what he actually does once receiving a ball, and i’ve seen nothing that impressed me.
Of course one could say he knew how to draw defenders away and create space for others, but i must say that this is not nearly enough for someone of his alleged qualities, as Huntelaar or Kuyt could have done this as well.
I could rate him higher because it wasn’t all his fault that he was not so influential, but i rated him on what he did once in possession of the ball.
I rated Sneijder and Robben lower than others probably would have, for not being team-players and not involving Van Persie enough, because that was their fault, not Van Persie’s.
On the other hand, it was not Sneijder and Robben’s fault that Robin did nothing with the ball once he had it.
He did ‘relatively’ well against Spain, but when you cannot even make any kind of mark against Denmark, Japan, and Slovakia, then you are simply not a top player or at least are having a very poor tournament.
After all, he shouldn’t expect to be playing against the likes of Luxembourg and Liechtenstein on this stage, should he? Also, it should be noted he WANTED to play in that position, so he does not have the excuse of being forced to play where he doesn’t feel comfortable.
It is not easy to come to terms with your team, Tony. With the amount of great players The Netherlands produce I always expect more from them. I do believe that Dutch individualism has something to do with the prolific blossoming of outstanding footballers, and perhaps also with the difficulties in coming up with the team that klick together to win it all.
Regarding Robben, it’s all about him. What an ego! Van Gaal’s work is not to be envied, having to deal with his two wingers. The French on the left, the Dutch on the right. What a pair!
You’re right.
But i think one of the least things a manager can do to limit it, is to play Robben on the left flank where he would be forced to cross more and shoot less.
I admit i was in awe of Robben on the left, doing some magical things at Bayern. But now i realize that sort of thing is very predictable and serves nobody but Robben if it doesn’t end up in a goal.
Also, the difference with Bayern is, that they not only have a penetrating Muller to support the striker, but also a Schweinsteiger who often joins in.
With Holland, Sneijder hardly ever overlaps or penetrates and the two holding midfielders always stay behind as well.
commiserations to holland, who were brilliantly organised for the most part, giving spain very few opportunities until they simply ran out of gas. they played a brave, high defensive line as opposed to inter’s parking the plane on the 6 yard line against barcelona.
it should be remembered that this spain squad is a collection of absolutely world class players, one of the all-time greatest pool of players in international football history, so for holland to hold them for so long with a defense comprising of an ageing van bronckhorst, a very inexperienced van der wiel, and a center-back pairing from hamburg/everton (no disrespect) was a fantastic effort. very little credit has been given for their positioning and reading of spain’s passing.
i guess this is because of the fouls. there were just three bad fouls in total, all worthy of yellow cards, and all punished with yellow cards. van bommel’s challenge was certainly not a leg breaker as some have suggested, it was hard and late but not dangerous. sneijder and de jong were a bit reckless but the reactions to them, both by the bbc pundits and posters on this site, have been absolutely ridiculous. can i ask who got injured from any dutch challenge at this tournament? just wondering because when shawcross snapped ramsey’s leg last season, and taylor did the same to eduardo 2 years ago, it was shawcross and taylor we were supposed to feel sorry for.
suggesting holland went out with a plan to injure the spanish is ridiculous. intimidation? sure. aggressiveness? yep. but the dutch advantage over the spanish was their extra physicality, so are we expecting them not to use that advantage in the world cup final? the three bad tackles were just instantaneous, mistaken decisions by dutch players having to play right on the very edge to have a chance of winning.
but anyway, when teams actually set out to kick the shit out of arsenal players, actually intend to injure them, i look forward to them being roundly condemned by the media – who i don’t remember once, when xavi and iniesta were needlessly rolling around, laughing and saying ’spain don’t like it up ‘em’.
The highest hypocrisy stems from the fact that the same people condemning the Dutch thuggery are the same people praising other Englishmen for “being physical” and “sticking it to Arsenal”.
A red for De Jong’s tackle would’ve drawn few complaints, but a yellow isn’t outrageous either.
Penalties would’ve been a fair result for this game. Both teams were mostly shut down; both teams were given clear-cut opportunities when defense fell asleep. The ref ended up being the match decider.
spot on mate. bunch of people with highest level of hypocrisy.
I don’t know if I want to read past ‘played a positive’… typically defensive side clogging the midfield looking most threatening from set pieces.
?
Excellent writeup as always. One thing I want to add is that Holland’s destructive tactic, actually did work. They unsettled Spain’s game plan, who felt compelled to respond with harsh tackles too, especially in the first half. If it wasn’t for Robben’s terrible finishing on those 2 clear cut chances, catenaccio would have won once again.
Essentially, Holland altered their usual game plan, feeling threatened by Spain’s superiority, while Spain stuck to their usual play. Spain won at the end, but only because the other side was unlucky. Tactically, the victory belongs to Holland in my opinion, because I’m fairly certain that had they tried to play creative football, Spain would have breezed through, winning by 2 or 3 goals.
Exactly. that’s the sad truth. Unlike Germany the Dutch managed to really unsettle Spain. It was an open game. Both teams could have won. Given the way spain usually dominates their opponents, this was definitely a Dutch success. I’m just glad that it didn’t work out for them goalwise. It would have been Mourinho all over again…
A truly awful game, in which everything but the most basic tactics went out the window. The behaviour of the Dutch team threw new light on the quarter final with Brazil, on which I have commented in previous postings. Their attitude to this occasion was a deep betrayal of the core values of Dutch football, made worse by a shocking lack of self-awareness after the event.
A disappointing tournament in most ways, enlivened by the Germans, the Argentinians, and some of the lass-fancied outfits. The Spanish and the Brazilians were probably the most rounded teams in the competition, all things considered, but that was fairly obvious before it started. Spain deserved to win, if only because of their emphasis – not always evident, however – on positive football.
Many thanks to ZM, whose terrific website made the month much more enjoyable than it would otherwise have been!
I join the wide majority of readers of this site to congratulate ZM on a stellar performance. in my opinion, your summary of the final is fair and balanced. Would simply like to add that in the circumstances, I thought the ref did a creditable job.Van Pummel and Kung Fu Dejong were lucky to stay on the pitch
I thought it weird that Cruyff gave such an endorsement of Spain’s game before the final. I got the feeling he was halfway pulling for them.
After watching the butchery of the Dutch side, I can’t say I’d blame Cruyff if he was backing Spain. The Dutch played with the tactical acumen of a bad League Two side.
You should read what he said *after* the final.
Need to ask you experts.
The dutch Guru was brilliant in Total Football tactics inventions. By having swift passing style and having ball possession all the time thus creating both attacking and defensive style, at the same time would cause opponents committing more fouls in attempting to dispose the ball and making them tired in chasing a ghost ball. Most of the tactics to counter it seems to be counter-attacking and getting brutal to disrupt the flow . Is there a better system to counter this kind of technique?
For the record, the name of the country is “The Netherlands.” Holland is merely the name of the western region of the country. The two aren’t interchangeable, even if used that way by a lot of English speakers.
Sorry, but many Dutch speakers colloquially call it Holland too (cf. the football chant “Hup hup holland!”).
Let’s give some credit to the Spanish defense that hasn’t allowed a goal in knockout stages of the two most difficult international tournaments. Some people may contribute the stellar defensive record to tiki taka but when was the last time Pique and Ramos lost and important header? Moreover, the aerial dominance of Spain’s backline is evidenced at the other end of the field too. If you’re wondering whether this team belongs among the greatest of all time then consider the defenders physicality and aerial abilities. Three defenders who are legit goal scoring threats in the box.
The game wasn’t good. At the end of the first half, I thought the game would end 9 v 9. The four most red card happy players on the pitch already had bookings: Van Bommel, De Jong, Ramos and Puyol.
Concerning Jonathan’s point about the Spanish not playing their best football:
I don’t think it’s possible anymore. It was fresh and relatively unseen at international level in 2008. With Spain and Barca’s success, teams have really tried almost every tactic to stop them. No one is going to let them have space and they know that. I think the presence of Spain’s two holding midfielders, Busquets and Alonso, is evidence of that. They know teams will try to play the counter game so they’re willing to provide more cover and be less creative. The Euro 2008 team would have lossed against Portugal (CR9 and Almeida break too fast for Senna, Puyol and Marchena). Remember their game against a slower Italy in the Euros? The 2008 team would’ve faced something like that against Paraguay and Holland. They would be just too positionally naive for this tournament.
Senna was pretty fast, faster than both Alonso and Busquets. Was Busquets or Alonso able to track Robben? No, but the 2008 Senna would’ve. Puyol was fast as well (and still is faster than any of Spain’s defenders bar Ramos and Arbeloa). Marchena was slow like Pique but he never ventured that forward so all in all the backline was more secure.
Look at the stats: the 4-4-2 (sometimes 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1) Spain only conceded 11 goals in their 35 match unbeaten streak (at one point, it was only 3 in 17) but the current 4-2-3-1 Spain has conceded 13 in 19 (13 in 15 before the KOs of the WC).
Remember that the US was able to break on the counter-attack against the 4-4-2 with Alonso as the DM, not Senna. Alonso of course is not the best option for the DM role. Also, Switzerland beat Spain with the double-pivot. And just yesterday, Robben was 1-on-1 with Casillas twice. Not what you’d expect when you play a 4-2-3-1.
The double pivot was brought in after the US because Busquets or Alonso couldn’t do Senna’s work by himself.
quote:…”Senna was pretty fast, faster than both Alonso and”….
yeah, but Schumacher was faster
…..
Part of those post Euro 2008 stats have to do with the fact that they faced better opponents. France, Turkey(x2), Argentina, Enlgand and South Korea were all non Confed opponents. Also, 4-3-3’s are more common now so the double pivot can handle that better.
Senna is fast but is he fast enough to cover for both Alonso and Busquets
Taking off de Jong for van der Vaart was suicidal. Okay, it was a nice gesture, but Holland were winning the tactical battle up to that point and completely fell apart soon afterwards. They also should have started Braafheid ahead of Gio in order to give Ramos something to think about. Gio was so poor that he had to be rather embarrasingly subbed off even though he was captain, retiring, and probably the fittest player on the team.
Howard bottled it big time in another final. Surely he can’t be considered an elite ref for much longer.
Gio was subbed off because he was injured. Not a tactical reason.
i thought van bronckhorst showed a great defensive performance. i was surprised when he was substituted, and I’m sure bvm (rightly) wouldn’t have taken him off if it wasn’t for injury
First, the goal came after a corner kick that should have been awarded to Holland (and would probably have kept them alive until the penalty kicks).
Second, Iniesta was clearly offside first, when a pass to him was blocked and then recieved his onside pass to score the goal. You could see the Dutch raise their hands too.
Again, a crucial goal in a crucial game, decided by poor reffing.
Sure, Spain played better, but I can see why the Dutch feel that they were robbed.
Look at jobless’s comments and see if it’s offside
I’ve looked at it over and over again. When the ball leaves the foot of the Spanish player, Iniesta is in offside position. The ball is then blocked by the Dutch defense. Next, he moves back onside to receive his final pass and scores. The only reason, I think, why the lineman did not wave his flag is that his view was probably blocked.
look at the posts above, after watching the footage several time it is very easy to see that Iniesta wasn’t offsite at all when the ball (the first and the second pass) was played!!! …and you looked at it over and over again???
The referee and the linesman got it absolutely right – without the help of any footage!!!
..and to argue that Netherland lost by a goal after a goal kick that should have been a corner kick is rediculous….
yes, there should have been a corner. yes it is plainly stupid to play the what if game (especially if the decision in question happened 2 minutes before the goal)
no, iniesta was not offside. watch again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o22-OBw1w9c
His position when scoring his goal was absolutely not offside, I agree. However, he was standing offside when a previous pass to him was deflected. But I guess you’re right. This yes/no thing can go on forever. Spain won and they’re worthy champs.
still disagree on the offside part.. at least in the replay you can see on the youtube link it doesnt look like offside, neither the first nor the second pass. might look different from another angle though
just saw that the link i posted previously doesnt work anymore.. heres another http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHKvuv6aSgk&playnext_from=TL&videos=bnd0kWhXHds&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_fresh%2Bdiv-1r-2-HM
stop the video at 0:36
..the ball was deflected / defended by a Dutch player …so also in this situation he wasn’t offsite (no offsite if the oponent has the ball) …so through the whole built up (first pass, denfence / deflection oft this pass and the second pass) he was never offsite … the footage leaves no doubts about this… it was 100% a correct goal!
Your argument is not relevant. If the player was offside when the ball was passed, it doesn’t matter if it was deflected of defended, if that pass was intended for that player.
However, Dutch TV showed that Iniesta was not off side, not for the first pass, nor the second.
Also, the argument “Holland should have had at least 2 men send off at half time” sounds a bit strange, because it would have changed the match and would influence both teams. Mark van Bommel should have been sent off, making Holland and Spain more carefull.
Because Webb failed to do so, he gave a licence to kill to both teams and ended up haggling to both teams. I’m not defending Holland, they were over the line, but Spain did their part too.
Spain changed the game when Navas got on and futher enhanced their position when Fabregas came on. Second to that I thought that Elia only offered a position improvement, but failed to make any other impact. Also, I think Heitinga should have been subbed earlier. His red card came from an almost identical situation that cost Holland a goal against Brazil: Heitinga being out of position. I feel he makes those mistakes a bit too often.
Let me finish by thanking ZM for this excellent site with great analysis!
A little late, but here’s a screenshot of the pass from Torres to Iniesta (right before the pass that lead to the goal):
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/7879/iniestaonside.jpg
Spot on, mate. I thought the decision was contentious at first, and the decision would’ve had to be made based on “Interfering with play” clause. But after watching that replay, I am convinced that Iniesta is on side for the initial pass, if only just. Fair play to him.
Europeans are just way too good at playing defense. It is nearly impossible to break them down, and it takes a bit of luck to break through. As defensive as Brazil supposedly was, the games between Europe and either Brazil or Argentina seem to be the best. Hopefully the next World Cup will provide the magic that has been lacking. I still believe the 82 and 86 World Cups were the best and it has been a long time.
any chance that the comment section gets changed anytime soon? it’s pretty hard to find new comments replying to previous comments. Or is there a way these can be highlighted that i don’t know about?
Other than that, i can only thank you, zm, for the great coverage of this tournament
It would be cool if instead of comments section there was a forum for comments. That way we could quote (reply to) other people and still see new posts.
agree.
The Dutch reaction to Webb and to the Spanish in this game is pathetic and delusional. Moaning about an incorrect non-award of a corner after a goal is scored some time later really is pathetic. There was a goal kick. Plenty of time to get in position and defend the next situation. The corner decision had no real bearing on the goal. Just about sums this Dutch team up.
And to listen to Dutch supporters complaining about Spanish diving or waving of yellow cards and “cheating” really is too much. The hypocrisy beggars belief.
What is extraordinary is that it has only taken the final in this tournament for so many people to wake up to what this Dutch team has done in every single one of their games.
Brutality, systematic provocation and cynicism by this Dutch team was the NORM – including incredibly brutal tackles by De Jong against a Danish player and van Bommel’s equally brutal tackle against Guardado in the QF. Those 2 fouls and several other tackles were potentially leg-breaking challenges.
von Bronkhorst’s volley v. Uruguay rightly got all the attention — but no one noticed the brutal red card tackle that made it possible.
In every single one of their games, they’ve gone out to provoke and create a bad spirit, provoke opponents and get them sent off. Every one of their games has resulted in anger and poor spirit, retaliation and petulance on the pitch.
Against Brazil, van Bommel shoved an elbow into Fabiano’s head. Fabiano then retaliated. Melo had had enuf of the gamesmanship, violence and provocation so he retaliated.
In the final, in the first 15 mins, Spain dominated by playing their football. They weren’t diving or fouling, they were dominating the ball as usual. Then the Dutch started to kick their way thru the game as usual, and then Spain started to retaliate and dive.
That’s been the Dutch game throughout this tournament: get opponents to retaliate, injure them, get them sent off. It worked with Brazil.
It didn’t with Spain.
And thank the football gods that Webb didn’t allow it to work. Webb in fact was too generous to Holland. They should’ve been down to 8 men. They should’ve been down to 10 men early in the Brazil game. They should’ve been down to 10 men early in the game v. Uruguay. They should’ve been down to 10 men midway v. Denmark.
As a longtime admirer of Holland, I’ve been appalled by this Dutch team. I love so many of their players. In the current team I esp. like Sneijder, Robben and RVP. I’m a gooner, I’m a huge RVP fan and wish he’d had a better tournament. Elia looks a fantastic prospect. And I also like the much maligned van der Vaart and Huntelaar. In Euro 08 I thought Engelaar was terrific and wondered why he wasn’t called up.
But it’s one thing to be pragmatic and turn away from “total football” as a winning strategy. Felipao and Dunga had to do that. It’s quite another to become a systematic, organized, intentional bunch of thugs and provocateurs who intentionally go out to create a very bad-spirited game and leave only anger and bitterness.
2010 world cup final:
Thuggery 0 – 1 Football
Couldn’t agree more with you.
absolute nonsense. amazing how willing people are, even on a deeper and more studious website, to jump on a bandwagon
football as a contact sport 0 – 1 waving cards, diving, rolling around as if dying
Sure, you will keep calling it “contact” until that bestiality (de Jong’s, van Bommel’s) one day is applied to you. Then you will tell me.
>> bestiality
I do net ting it means what joo ting et means
Synonyms of “bestiality”: barbarity, beastliness, brutality, depravity, inhumanity, inhumanness, savagery, truculence, truculency, wickedness.
Pick the one you like.
Agree completely with Steve, yes Holland have a few dirty players but people are blowing things way out of proportion.
Thats the way I saw it.
agree with most of what you said…
one comment to Webb: as I stated in my posts above I believe he did a great job and did what was possible to keep it a soccer game.
The real mistakes were made before in the earlier games and it is likely we would have seen a different game if the referees would have shown a red card or more yellows in Netherland’s games of the first round. Netherland was always a little bit lucky wrt cards and this luck not beeing cautioned likely influenced their game plan for the final…
I guess it will be their disadvantage in the future so … with the style showed in the final they definitley alarmed referees and in future games a referee might be more motivated to show a card also it might be overdone… could be quite a disservice for their future games…
Perfect post.
This whole business about Iniesta being offside is a bit of a joke isn’t it? If he was offside, it should be fairly obvious. If you expect a ref to make the call, you should not blame him if you can’t get a panel discussion with endless replays to come to a definitive conclusion
this
“I can see why the Dutch feel that they were robbed.”
de Jong should have been tossed out for the studs on Alonso. period.
they were brutal, desperate, and in the end, pathetic if their strategy
was to injure and maim the other team.
de Jong out at 30 min, and the spanish would have easily won the game
after that.
The Dutch did a great job containing Spain..they managed to stifle the Spanish passing and limit their chances..the reason why they didn’t win was because they had a single plan for attack, which was to pass the ball to Robben and hope for the best.
The Spanish attack worked as a team whilst the Dutch didn’t.
Kudos to the Dutch defence though.
First off, I really want to thank ZM for really improving my World Cup experience. Awesome work! Also, most of the posters have been really sophisticated in trying to analyze and learn more about the game.
1. Ironically, both the Dutch and Spanish and FIFA wanted a high level European ref, used to big matches. LOL. The excellent Mexican referee would have given 2 red, so quickly it would have made your head spin….of course, FIFA, knew this and let this match take a life of its own.
2. An Argentinean journalist cleverly noticed, that while inside the stadium, BOTH benches were unglued and out and out arguing every officiating decision, incensed at the officiating. He said this greatly added to the tension and raised the intensity of on-field protests. Again, cleverly he suggested that Europeans have a hard time ever complaining about South Americans and these teams clearly didn’t respect the officials authority.
3. I almost think that both Spain and Netherlands were the 2 most tactically disciplined teams but clearly FIFA tournaments are as much about wars of attrition, lucky draws, and coming through in close games…more so than playing the best football. Coincidence that both teams were the least booked throughout.
Is that last bit true? I saw a statistic where Netherlands had the most amount of fouls (by an enormous amount, far outstripping even the other final four teams who played the same amount of matches). But it’s true that Van Bommel somehow managed to avoid yellow cards although he routinely had 2 or 3 tackles that should have been yellow in each match.
nobody will care about censored website anymore. RIP
Many here forget that football is a tough game. I am astonished that no one except Netherlands tried to break the Spanish game down using tough play. I think the Dutch played way too hard in the 1st half.
Let us not forget that Germany won their previous World Cups by playing tough not nice. Some criticized Loew for playing too cautious. And as we saw yesterday they are right. In the past Germany was the bestia negra for Spain. Since they changed their style, they lost some of their Durchschlagskraft (Hiddink, punch trough power)
If you play tough against Spain they lose their flow and are beatable. This might sound cynical, but dont forget that the Netherlands 1974 or Brazil 1970 won their games even against tough playing sides.
Spain is likely to face more games like this one in future.
I enjoyed the Spanish technique, but their game was essentially a tiki-taka variant of Italy 2006.
soccer changed over the last 20 -30 years …. it is much faster now, more athletic (look at the distance every player has to run through a game) and also the rules were adapted (e.g. off site, tackling from behind etc.)… these rules adjustments favour a technical advanced team, not a rustical team and adopting a more rustical game would be a step back in the wrong direction….
and wrt Löw and the German team: at least they lost with style!!! and acknowledged the better team … if you can do this there is always the chance to learn and improve.
I’d rather say the Germans lost through naivité and inexperience. I don’t think there was anything wrong with the basic approach of the Dutch in this game, in fact I agree with konfrontationskurs that this is the way to beat Spain. The mistake they made was making some stupid hard fouls that weren’t actually needed for their strategy to work, where they should’ve limited it to annoying but relatively harmless fouls.
“annoying but relatively harmless fouls”
can’t agree with you more!!!!
Fouls is part of the technical advanced team to play with a better team.
It is not the way to beat Spain, the Dutch did not win
The Dutch had two 150% chances and 100 % of Mathijsen. They actually could (or should) have scored. How many chances did the other teams create?
Actually, Chile did an excellent job of intense pressing of Spain in the group stage. Spain still got two goals before a Chilean was sent off with a second yellow at 37′(I agree that the booking was a misunderstanding, not one of intent. Torres tripped in the penalty box from an innocent collision). The Chileans played harder and faster than the Dutch, but it never came to outright viciousness like them. Chile picked up 4 yellow cards (and a red from two yellows) in their group stage match while Spain came clean.
Paraguay also did a very impressive display of pressing Spain in the knockout stage. The Spanish only made their goal at 83′. A total of 6 yellow cards in that match, two going to Spain.
The problem with what your saying is FIFA and the officials do not allow this. It seems that outside of Holland, few teams are able to fight fire with fire. There is a double standard.
In other words, only certain teams, and only certain players get “license to foul” and license to be physical.
Otherwise you end up with 10 men or 9 men for 80 minutes.
To all the people defending Holland’s cynical approach and calling Iniesta a diver, if you were treated like this, would you not go down easily?
http://tweetphoto.com/32308740
Well okay, but let’s just be consistent then and stop calling Arjen Robben, who gets fouled at least as often as Iniesta every match, a diver based on things he did five years ago. (I’m not talking about you specifically.)
I saw how the Netherlands played against Spain and it brought one thing to mind: Revie and Leeds. It was mostly about spoiling Spain’s play and too little about the Dutch creative element. van Bommel and de Jong both deserved to be sent off in the first half with their horrific attacks. These weren’t tactics based on pressing, they were tactics of brutal intent. In this World Cup, Spain were given a total of 8 yellow cards. The Netherlands collected 22. To give further perspective, Germany collected 11 yellow cards, and Uruguay, 9. Only one word worthy for the Dutch: thugs. Shocking to realize that the legacy of Totaalvoetbal has been reduced to this.
Salute to Spain for their faith in the attacking system, the fútbol total system. Now that the most complex and organized defenses have failed to persevere against Spain, might the footballing world take a gamble on attacking, possession football?
I think the rustical approach will be used against Spain more often now. Holland was the only team not conceding a goal with 11 players on the pitch. Most teams cannot develop a similar style to Spain due to missing players.
What do others think if we say Spain played like Italy just nicer to look at? They even shot less goals than Italy 2006. The Spanish played defensively not offensively.
The only problem is it’s very hard to maintain that level of brutality and retain a full complement of eleven before the final whistle. True pressing is a lot harder than kicking someone in the chest. Either defenses are going to have to decide on the brutal approach with a man or two down, or they’ll need to train hard to reach the fitness levels required to press consistently for the better part of the game.
What I don’t understand is why more clubs don’t adopt possession football for its defensive qualities? It’s a great way to catch your breath while the opposition is running itself ragged pressing. There’s a reason why Spain was scoring its goals all so late in the match. The opposition were much more tired than Spain at that point.
I don’t know, maybe because it’s incredibly hard to play like that? Like Cruyff said, “Football is simple, but the hardest thing there is, is to play simple football.”
depends on what you are calling defensively or offensively. they certainly had more attack minded players on the field than most other teams (1 forward, 3 midfielders, 1 holding midfielder and 1 full back), and my guess would be that they are leading in the statistics for ball possession in the opponent third as well, so thats what id call offensive.
nevertheless, as was already mentioned a couple of times on this site, tiki-taka works even better as a defensive style when ahead than it works as a offensive style.
i think many clubs cant adopt possession football as a defensive style because of the high quality of the players that are needed for this to work.
quote: “What do others think if we say Spain played like Italy just nicer to look at? They even shot less goals than Italy 2006.”
uihhhh … IMO 2 total different approaches also expressed by ball possession …the fact that Spain shot less goals is mainly caused by the defending efforts of their oponents. Barca plays obviously a similar style and verifies that possesion can indeed lead to a lot of goals…
Well, Spain is less ambitious with its passing than Barça, and I don’t think their small amount of goals is completely due to the defensive tactics of their opponents, but still I agree that they really can’t be compared to Italy in 2006.
Well the lack of goals is due to the fact, that spain had no real goal scorer besides Villa. They had more then enough chances (most shots of all teams, most attacks). Iniesta tried to pass to a team mate two times in the final, when he clearly should have tried his luck. Özil is very similar to him in this aspect.
The pressure of the world cup, the extra effort by teams/players the were facing… End of a long season… Few players despite the media hype playing on top form… Spain just managed to pull it off, they weren’t as good to watch as they can be but lets not get crazy now… Italy 2006 were HORRIBLE!
Well I can’t disagree with anything. The problem for me is that both Spain and Holland did not receive yellow cards UNTIL the Final. Subtract yesterdays bookings and Holland Spain got away with incessant fouling.
Their opponents did not.
CLough would have loathed this team.Nice memories
Sorry for the double posting.
Spain is a worthy winner. The final was decided by the referee at last. If we sum up this World Cup it was the World Cup of wrong and decisive referee decisions. And this final was full of wrong decisions.
But for the dismissal of Heitinga, which was too harsh compared to the fouls on both sides left unpunished, Spain would have not scored.
For example the foul Iniesta committed long after the ball was gone should have been awared with a card (red or yellow). So Webb did not follow his line consequently. Undiano was too harsh but he kept his standards through the game.
Heitinga was sent off not because it was a tough foul, but because Iniesta was with the ball on his way to the goal and no other defender between him and the goalkeeper…so the yellow was indeed according to the current rule of FIFA – that has nothing to do with the quality of this foul: if foul than it is a yellow or even a straight red according to the rules!
In my opinion it was merely a dive by him. Heitinga bareley interfered with his movement whereas Puyol had his arm around Robben on his second chance. Robben was even likelier to score. Puyol got away with it. Had Robben dived, Puyol would have been sent off with a second yellow. It was obvious how Puyol wanted to keep Robben from speeding up.
Howard Webb was biased towards Spain after the 75th minute.
Anyway Spain played more elegant and was less brutal over the match. Finally Spain deserved the win because they made the goal. Holland did not despite of the brillant chances.
As to the foul of De Jong I agree it was a red card.
so ..with nearly everything said in this thread…
it is time to say thank you to ZonalMarking: as a lot of people mentioned before it is just a great side and I really enjoyed this WC more than any other before (and also the reports and discussions about the last European Champions league).
I was also positive surprised about the amount of fair and constructive comments from all part of the world so also thank you to everyone who contributed – not sure how many posts needed censoring
so ….
any plans to extend the webside with forums which would make it easier to handle the different games?
…can’t wait till the Bundesliga and Championsleague season starts again
…
I would too, like to echo those sentiments. Thank you ZM for a great world cup (yes, you made it great almost single handedly, although there was a bit of help from germans
).
Tough play by Holland…
There does seem to be a notion held by the Spain and Barcelona praise singers that the opposition should go and sit quietly in a corner while they play their wonderful brand of football and score all the goals. It shouldnt be a contest should it? It should be an exhibtion.(tip, try watching WWE instead – that’s the way it works there) Neither are either of these sides ever guilty of disrupting and spoiling their opponents and THEIR style of playing in a pleasing manner, are they?
But,
De Jong should have been sent off – his intent was to seriously injure Xabi.
And, do you remember a certain Sergio Ramos in a certain semi-final stamp on Podowlski’s foot (with the intent to seriously injure HIM)? The German had to leave the field for treatment and we all know how effective he was for the rest of the match.
Seem’s as if Spain’s moral high ground may be a little flat.
Sooner or later, old Sepp the Narnia Dwarf will figure out how he can make bootful’s of money for himself, through using TV replays to aid refs, as has already been done for a zillion years in other sports. Then all the studs up fouls which are virtually impossible to see on the field, but which tens of millions of us are able to see over and over in slomo in the comfort of our own homes, and all the dives, will finally be policed. No brutality and no play acting, just football. Then the world ends.
I don’t have a problem with fouling per se. Heck, I’m a La Liga fan and fouling is an art form in Spain with stuff that would give the average Brit a coronary from the indignity of it all. Pressing doesn’t bother me a bit either. Chile was brilliant this World Cup with their intense high up pressing. Had they come with any goal scorers of worth, the Chileans would have likely made it to the semifinals at least. I do have a problem with brutality, however. That has no place in football or any sport aside from the pugilistic kind.
All that needs remembering is that amongst a field of defensive-minded sides with a plan hinged on spoiling the opposition, Spain weathered them all, and won. A system of play that hinges on incessant attack through patient probing and ball possession. Sure, that might mean against the average (defensive) side, the result may be light on goals, but I like the play leading up to that as much as the goals themselves.
It’s the quality, not the quantity I’m after anyway. Besides, what’s the alternative? Watch two sides batter one another all across the field until someone works a corner. The corner scores (unlikely), or (more likely) falls to the defending side who immediately launch into a blazing counter. They either score, or don’t. Repeat.
Gracias, pero no.
Spain will go down in history as the most boring team ever.
McClaren’s FC Twente give ‘em a run for their money. When Tiendalli and Wisgerhof melina, you know it’s time to put the kettle on. By the time you get back, the ball’s still not upfield!
I watched ESPNs re-run of the 2006 final on Sunday. It was an absolute belter in comparison. Who was more anonymous – Totti in that final, or Sneijder in this? Zidane, Thuram and Henry looked red-hot mind. Zambrotta too, in spells.
why jonathan wilson hate the germany team? i thought what he says about them are truly offensive…
yeh, sometimes his critic is not really consistent, e.g. here a quote from this site http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2010/jul/09/world-cup-2010-tactics-the-question:
quote: “….In those games Germany managed one goal, and that a wonder-strike from Ozil. Against Spain their poverty of ideas was such they ended up sending the lumbering centre-back Per Mertesacker forward as an auxiliary striker, an idea so bereft of subtlety that the only time I remember it working was when Dennis Smith once sent Gary Bennett forward for Sunderland against Oxford in 1990….”
…ups … and who scored for Spain?????
Too much history in his blog. He talks about stuff from 50-100 years ago rather than tactics in the current generation more often than not. Stopped following the blog after 2 or 3 articles.
Puyol…on a corner not during the run of play
They were pressing and pressing close to the box. They had pretty good chances moments before the corner. I suspect that’s partially why the germans defended that corner poorly, they were rattled.
Um, didn’t that tactic work in a UCL semi just a few months ago?
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What a great resource!