Holland 2-1 Brazil: poor defending from set-plays costs Dunga

The starting line-ups
Brazil are out. A dominant first half, a shocking second half – Holland took advantage of their defensive mistakes to record a famous victory.
We know the starting line-ups both managers like to field, because both give their first XIs the numbers 1-11. In this match, however, injury to Elano and Joris Mathijsen meant we saw both No 13s from the start – Daniel Alves played on the right of midfield, whilst Andre Ooijer was a late change after Mathijsen was injured in the warm-up.
The game started at a slow tempo, with Brazil dominating possession of the ball and Holland struggling to cope with their movement. As outlined in the preview, the biggest problem when facing Brazil is the positioning of the two wide players.
Holland dealt with Alves by getting Giovani van Bronckhorst very tight to him at all times. With Alves drifting into deep and central positions, this created a huge hole in Holland’s left-back position. Maicon was the man to exploit this, and although Dirk Kuyt did a decent defensive job against him, sometimes it just wasn’t possible – few can keep up with Maicon over a 60 yard sprint.
How did they deal with Robinho? Well, they didn’t, hence the amount of time and space he got for Brazil’s opener. The problem throughout the half stemmed from the lack of defensive awareness of Arjen Robben, who showed no desire in tracking Michel Bastos’ runs into the final third. This meant that Gregory van der Wiel was too concerned with Bastos, Kaka and Luis Fabiano were troubling the centre-backs, and Robinho was left free far too often. A misunderstanding between van der Wiel and Robben seemed to left him go, and his out-to-in run from the left met Melo’s straight pass wonderfully.
Holland problems
In truth, Holland were awful in the first half; there were problems with all four of their attacking players. Kuyt was forced back by Maicon, and was up against the world’s best two right-backs. Wesley Sneijder was also tending to drift into that zone, and Brazil passed him between Gilberto and Alves with ease – he rarely got the ball in the final third. Robben was ponderous and predictable on the ball, always looking to come inside and running into traffic, as Melo doubled-up against him, and others quickly followed. Robin van Persie, meanwhile, was up against two centre-backs and had very little support, making it difficult for him to influence the game.
That said, Holland were playing the game reasonably well in terms of overall strategy. They were not chucking men forward to try and create overloads, they were instead holding their defensive shape and making it difficult for Brazil to counter. Brazil only constructed one good move after the goal – a wonderful sweeping attack involving the Kaka-Robinho-Fabiano triangle that ended with Kaka curling the ball towards goal – Maarten Stekelenburg produced a good save.
Second half switches
So what change after half-time for Holland? In terms of basic formation, absolutely nothing. But they were noticeably brighter, playing at a quicker tempo and with much more movement and interchanging of positions. There seemed to be a concious effort to practically give up on attacking the side where Brazil had Maicon-Alves-Gilberto-Lucio, and instead target the side with Juan-Bastos-Melo – often identified as Brazil’s weak point (although they did well against Chile).
This meant that Robben was involved in build-up play much more than in the first half, and although he produced little in the way of goalscoring opportunities, he stretched the play and drew fouls from Bastos. Indeed, the Lyon player was lucky not to be sent-off for his succession of poor tackles, and the final offence resulted in the free-kick for Holland’s equaliser.
Uually, Holland form a triangle on their left-hand side with van Persie, Sneijder and Kuyt/van der Vaart, but this was disbanded after half-time. Instead, van Persie started to work the right-hand channel, Kuyt made very central runs, whilst Sneijder stayed in the middle rather than drifting to the left. Still at 0-1, he found himself in acres of space on the edge of the box when Brazil’s players had been sucked into their left-back position, but his first touch was poor, and his shot even worse.

Defeat means this will be Dunga's final game as Brazil manager
Basic goals conceded
Bastos’ foul on Robben gave Brazil a free-kick, which they worked short to Sneijder, who was not closed down by Bastos, and had time to swing a cross into the box. Confusion between Julio Cesar and Melo resulted in the ball brushing Melo’s head and sailing into the far corner, and Holland were level.
A Julio Cesar mistake is rare, but not as unprecedented as some are making out – earlier this year he was looking slightly shaky, and in a Serie A match away at Fiorentina, ZM noted, ‘Fiorentina equalized just two minutes later with a scrappy goal from a corner kick. Julio Cesar had been troubled by crosses and set-pieces all day and again looked uncomfortable.’
The goal completely changed the game – Holland looked more composed, more confident and more relaxed. They won a cheap corner, again in Brazil’s left-back zone – Robben played it in, Kuyt darted ahead of Fabiano at the near post to get a flick-on, and Sneijder headed in from the edge of the six-yard box. Brazil have become renowned for their excellent defending of set-pieces, and so for them to exit the competition because of a goal like this will be the most difficult thing for Dunga to accept.
Indiscipline costs Brazil
Holland were pressing much better in the second half, giving Gilberto and Melo little time on the ball, and frustrating Brazil overall. Melo’s personal frustration got the better of him, and his petulant stamp on Robben earned him a deserved red card. Melo’s disciplinary record is atrocious and he continually lets his side down in this respect. Few Brazil players can expect a warm reception when they return home, but bowing out of the tournament with a red card and an own goal means the most vilified player will surely be the Juventus player.
His departure was another lift for Holland. Dunga tried to change things by putting on Nilmar – but withdrew Fabiano. Why did he give up on his system? The entire shape is based around a central target man, and whilst Fabiano clearly wasn’t having his best game, this was when Brazil needed him on the pitch. The numerical disadvantage meant they started hitting long balls, which Robinho and Nilmar were never going to win, and their biggest threat came from corner kicks, where Fabiano also would have been useful. The closest they got to scoring was when Kaka’s run and shot was blocked by Ooijer, who grew into the game and had a good second half.
But Brazil looked lost – they’re not used to chasing games, and their low-tempo, counter-attacking style didn’t lend itself to a desperate late fightback.
Conclusion
Two things cost Brazil – discipline and defending set-pieces. The former was a problem in giving away too many free-kicks, and more obviously in Melo’s red card. The latter, a hallmark of the ‘unBrazilian’ thing Dunga’s Brazil supposedly did well, was crucial.
And if you concede goals, end up trailing, and play a style of football like this, it’s not easy to get back into the game. Brazil’s lack of flair has been criticized before the tournament, and will doubtless be criticized after this defeat. We have seen, however, some wonderful moves from Brazil earlier on in this competition – the problem is that their attacking flair relies on defensive solidarity. That wasn’t evident today, and cost Brazil going forward.
Credit must go to Bert van Marwijk for a change of emphasis after half-time, both in terms of Holland’s defending (heavier pressing) and attacking (focussing it down the right). It wasn’t a drastic change in formation or personnel, but it effectively (a) nullified Brazil’s strengths and (b) exploited their weaknesses – good tactics if you’re the underdog.
Holland 2-1 Brazil: poor defending from set-plays costs Dunga


Red card incident aside, Robben was a disgrace today. Awful performance individually, littered with diving and trying to get others booked and sent off. Obviously not the only culprit on both sides, but undeniably the worst.
You’re being kind on van Bommel…
Haha indeed, VBommel was asking for a yellow card all day. That said, being a Juventus fan, I was not at all surprised to see Melo get sent off. Now the whole world can see what every Juventus fan has had to live with from this disgrace Melo…
I thought it was a very strange match, in truth, in the 1st half Holland was completely clueless. Brazil’s pressing was hard and effective and really disrupted Holland’s flow, but I think that indiscipline REALLY lost Brazil the game today, they just couldn’t keep their heads cool and messed it up. I was surprised with how well Holland eventually dealt with Robinho’s movement. Well as I grew up in Holland and lived their for 16 years, I guess I’m proud of being part of such a great footballing nation!
wrt v Bommel:… indeed
… but I don’t think that Robben was a disgrace … Brazil just focused too much on him when they tried to stop him …in a way Robben won the game: Bastos had to be replaced (he was similar close to a red card as it was vBommel) and also Melo’s red card can be linked to Brazil’s plan to stop him before he can start his runs….
Bastos was taken to school by Robben all day, and V. Bommel was an abomination in terms of fair play. Why do the Dutch bring out the worst of themselves and others at major WC games (cue Netherlands-Portugal from 4 yrs ago)?
But Brazil has no one but themselves to blame, they were angry at the Dutch from the beginning when they should be calm, and once they lost the lead their anger turned into desperation, and made some huge mental mistakes when they didn’t need to – they were the superior side!
Also, I think Elano’s loss and Ramires being suspended hurt them A LOT, as the side had to field Melo out there. Dunga should’ve sub Bastos out at half time (with the lead).
Personally, this is my favorite Brazil side of the last 20 years, just because they weren’t full of themselves (ie. 2006) and play tactically interesting football, but this is a major disappointment.
OptaJose
8 – Against #Bra , Arjen Robben won 8 free kicks for #Ned , an individual record in a single match so far at the 2010 #Worldcup. Slippery.
28 minutes ago via web
I think that’s why he stamped him; Robben and van Bommel both were fouling and/or play-acting so often the Brazilians lost their tempers. You could see Alves counting fouls to the ref at one point, one-two-three-four. Goading your opponent into committing a stupid red-card foul like that is, uh, a skill.
….Alves, Bastos and even Robinho weren’t much better….. there were a lot of fouls from each side …another referee and both teams would have end with only 7 players left on the field….
Too true, one just remembers Becks getting sent off by an Oscar winning performance by Diego Simeone !!!
I think being more interested in kicking a player all over the pitch rather than playing football is much more of a disgrace than not giving those players the courtesy of remaining standing.
From the first minute it was obvious the tactic was to kick Robben all over the pitch when he was brought down in the middle of the park (sparking the first flared tempers – Robinho and Van Bommel going nose to nose, literally).
When players are interested in my legs more than the ball, i would go down easy too.
Brazil were lucky to begin with that Michel Bastos had not been sent off for two bookings. Kaka should have been sent off for taking a swing at Ooijer (although he missed).
Luis Fabiano kicked at Mark Van Bommel at one point whilst laying on the ground, which the referee didn’t see,
Brazil were petulant and thuggish, and you don’t reward that with niceties.
Really? I think he achieved what he set out to do – drawing countless fouls from the Brazilians, winning cheap free-kicks and constantly applying pressure on his side. He was a constant thorn in the Brazilians’ side and their frustration with him resulted in the stamp and the resultant red card. Not what we might want to see, but he certainly contributed a lot to winning the game for the Dutch.
Brazil really don’t deserve any sympathy… So some Dutch players behaved the way a Brazilian would… Brazil lost because they were scared of Roben. Brazil are a very very good team but have few very good individuals. In my opinion Holland have the better individuals, and one of them was responsible for the difference.
You’re right 100 % !!! Brazil complaining when having the “serial” diver Danny Alves in theis midst ! A touch of irony !!!
Robben and van der Wiel do not operate on the same wavelength, and their relationship adds nothing to Holland’s play. Everyone highlights the centre-backs as Holland’s biggest problem area, but neither full-back adds anything attacking-wise. However, M Pereira and Fucile will prove easy to wrap in the sem-finals. But, they could do with a more physical presence in the centre-forward position.
They actually played very well together this game.
I think was good today in the 2nd half. He annoyed the Brazilian right side very much. The red card was definitely caused by this. I want to emphasize that the Dutch won more often the battles in midfield in the second half. they denied Brazil possession quite effectively. Something they were not used to.
Probably this Brazilian side would have lost against Spain too.
” Brazil have become renowned for their excellent defending of set-pieces, and so for them to exit the competition because of a goal like this will be the most difficult thing for Dunga to accept.”
I disagree. Already before the match Dutch football analysts indicated that Brasilian sides are not good at defending set-pieces. Just think of the final of 1998 against France in France.
Brasil under Dunga have been renowned for the excellency from set-plays in defence and attack. 1998 and 2010 are two different teams so how one can do an analysis of a national side such as Brasil who always find something to change.
ZM is talking about this Brazilian team though. I don’t think what happened in the 1998 Final had much impact on today’s match.
But that’s the point, that Dunga made a concious effort to get the defending (and attacking) of set-pieces right. It’s been a major part of his plans, hence the surprise.
Scout Piet de Visser who knows Brasiian football said (after the match) that Brasilian defenders in general are not good at defending at set pieces. Aad de Mos made a remark about the Dutch having a chance at scoring at set pieces before the match. I am just giving some opinions.
The Brazilians can handle set pieces under normal conditions. It’s when they get emotional that things start going wrong. The obvious example was the 1998 final. Similarly, the Brazilians don’t tend to get rough unless they doubt their ability to win in the style they like. then they start to hack at the opposition.
His surprise was to use set-pieces? Isn’t everyone just about practices set-pieces? Amazing. He also sent Nilmar to do wonders without Fabiano. That would’ve been a task too much for Messi
“this side” however have, for the most part, done incredibly well with them regardless of history.
A very tight game. A goal lost in a set-piece is not something to be forgiven from this “unBrazilian” Dunga’s side….
I hate Melo the douche…I hope he leaves Juve.He cost us many games last season with his temper and overall douche-bag-ness
From what I saw in the first half (I missed the second), Melo has a temper and often lacks discipline. Against Portugal he went in hard twice on Pepe and made a few rash challenges today.
He needs to work on his temper otherwise he’ll forever be labelled as a “bad boy” who costs his team big.
He’s bonkers. I’m amazed Juve bought him as I thought he was pretty average at Fiorentina.
just out of curiosity, was he really the best option for the squad then? I just want to know if this was a poor choice by Dunga or if there was no alternative.
Thiago Motta, maybe. Mineiro if he hadn’t adventured to Europe and continued his good form on São Paulo would also be a good candidate. Elias, from Corinthians, is also a very bright (albeit young) holding midfielder that has a good passing game.
How about Brazil NOT playing with three holding midfielders?
I’m amazed some people claimed Holland were negative today, when Brazil has seven (!) defensive players (not counting the GK). Their entire defence and midfield is defensive (sure their backs are attacking-minded but they’re still defenders).
Here’s a novel idea: instead of Melo, why doesn’t Brazil play with an attacking midfielder / advanced playmaker, a type like Diego?
I honestly disagree with Brasil playing a double pivot. How wonderfully did they play with a more mobile midfield against Chile?
I know Ramires and Elano were unavailable, but certainly a player in this mold, a carrilero, was called for. I’m not a big fan of Julio Baptista.
If you want another holding midfielders, Josue?
Holland pressed better in the second half but it seemed a game hinged on mentalitty rather than tactics and Brasil seemed to lose it. Holland riled.
Agree.
I just went through the game again and it struck me there was one observable difference after halftime. Fabiano had done very little in the first half and kept on that way, Kaka was involved to a degree but nothing like the way he was in the first half: the big thing though was that Robinho seems completely to have disappeared, even after the Ned goals. In fact his first notable involvement in the half was running in to scream at Robben in the aftermath of the Melo card. Has anyone else seen this? Can anyone advance a tactical reason or is it a matter of Robinho deciding to join Fabiano on vacation? While I think the match answered, conclusively, the question as to Dunga’s abilities, surely he should have hooked Fabiano at the half just as a gesture of managerial competence? But the tactical issue is more interesting–Ooijer and Heitinga settling in, getting their act together?
If Sneijder was man of the match for his 2nd half performance, Dutch goalkeeper Stekelenburg was certainly their man of the match in the 1st half, and almost single-handedly kept them in the game and allowed the comeback to happen http://dodgyatbest.blogspot.com/2010/07/netherlands-2-1-brasil-massive.html
Dejong and van bommel fought for everything in the middle which helped the dutch alot.i want to speak about rvp:he struggled in the first half as did the whole team but in the second half i thought he perfomed better.he may not have made an eye-catching contribution but i think the way he drifted ‘broke down the brazilian wall’ and if not for poor finishing brazil would have been embarassed.hope he improves though…
I think people are being hard on the Dutch and Robben. People have been using excuses for Rooney that he was not fit enough – well Robben has come back from a much more recent injury and has been the deciding factor in the last 3 games.
The Dutch have been playing and alien game for them where the result is more important than the style. That is the same as England coming out and playing Total Football. Good on the Dutch they showed passion and committment today – something they have always envied the English for. I am a grass roots football coach and go every year to Holland and marvel at their organisation and structure. They always say…yes but we envy your will to win and passion. What passion and what will to win?
I’ll copy-paste my comment on your Brazil preview (June 9, 1:30 pm):
http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/06/09/brazil-tactics-world-cup-2010/
“I’m surprised though you haven’t mentioned the fragility of the left side with Michel Bastos as full-back and the unstable Melo covering. Even the Tanzanians figured it out in the friendly this week. Worse, Bastos’s deputy (Gilberto) is having a stinker of a season (basically the worse player on the pitch in the Cruzeiro side embarassingly eliminated from the Libertadores). If there is a way to score against Brazil is to pressure the left side of defence.”
Bingo.
Good call…
Heitinga’s positioning at the Robinho goal was very like what Vermaelen tends to do wrong at Arsenal, as ZM already discussed here:
http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/04/09/thomas-vermaelen-arsenal-positional-errors/
Heitinga made the same error during the final minute of the Japan game, leading to the big opportunity Okazaki managed to miss.
Maybe something stemming from the Ajax youth system?
I think it is. In the comments on the Vermaelen article you link to I said the following, which I think applies to Heitinga as well:
“I think that Vermaelen getting too far forward is an unfortunate by-product of being schooled in the Ajax system. At Ajax, they employ forward defending; defenders push up to press the opponent very far up the pitch. The objective is to box the opponent in on a small strip of space, have them lose the ball swiftly and being relative close to the goal to set up your new attack. This works well in the dearth of quality that is the current Eredivisie, but as your examples point out, against better opposition this gets found out.”
Hi, Robert. I’m just curious about this. Has there been a defensive midfielder who manages to cover this sort of central defence mishap consistently? As in the Brazil-Netherlands match, we saw Robben darting back to meet Robinho but he was late. Any players did this regularly at Ajax?
Hi, Dmitri. Traditionally – up until, say, 15 years ago – Ajax always had a player who acted as a deep-lying playmaker when in possession, and dropped into defence when not in possession (Koeman, Rijkaard, Blind). Because the onus for Ajax is always on attack, the two central midfielders (de Zeeuw and Enoh, currently) have to deal with defensive and offensive duties both – two Van Bommels rather than a Van Bommel and a De Jong, if you will. Because of this, they are vulnerable against team stronger than them, as the UEFA Cup fixture against Juventus this season borne out. This was the case even when they won the Champions League in 1995. In what in Holland is commonly seen as their best match in the campaign, against Bayern Munich, they scored 5 but still conceded 2. Outscoring your opponent has always been more important than keeping it tight at the back.
I remember that match well, the 5-2. I guess Blind was the last person to do covering in such way then… Thanks for the info. Wish I could follow Ajax games every week.
Harsh to call it an error on Heitinga, since he was the only Dutch player actually marking someone on the goal. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for him to assume that either or both of Van der Wiel or Robben would track Robinho or, failing that, that Ooijer might slide over to cover (since he had nothing better to do after releasing Fabiano).
Why on Earth should Robben be the one to mark Robinho?
Maybe i’m wrong, but i didn’t catch Heitinga marking anyone on that goal. And certainly not tightly, if he did.
Looked to me like Heitinga was tracking Fabiano. I think you can certainly ask questions about why the right sided central defender would be tracking Fabiano, but nobody else was.
I think Robben was supposed to mark Bastos. Bastos’ presence on the left side dragged van der Wiel wide which created a huge gap for Robinho to run into.
On TV you could see Robben yelling to the bench ‘My fault? That far?’
Not sure what happened to the two defensive midfielders too, either in allowing the pass or picking up Robinho. Classic case of “that’s somebody elses job” I think.
I don’t recall who, but one pundit yesterday said it was also Mark van Bommel’s fault, because he was just standing there “eating from his nose” (a Dutch manner of speaking saying: doing nothing), instead of pressing forward.
I think it may have been Rene Meulensteen (coach at Man Utd) who said it.
So you’re correct.
it was supposed to be an offside trap.
Oojier played him onside.
A shame for Brazil, but no team wins 100% of their games. There’s always some luck involved. Its especially a shame because Dunga’s system was genuinely very good, possibly the best of any world cup team, and I can’t see Brazil being better off without him.
That aside, Netherlands are in and are (for the most part) a very good team and usually good to watch. Sneijder & van persie are genuinely enjoyable players and Kuyt has been surprisingly exciting (was anyone else willing him to get that goal late in the game? he definitely deserved it for his hard work).
It will be interesting, thought, to see how the Netherlands cope without Nigel de Jong after he picked up his 2nd yellow. Ghana could take advantage of it merely by having a bigger, more physical midfield and Uraguay’s can exploit that area with Forlan.
Exciting stuff from the world cup as usual.
Agree with all of this. Especially Kuyt. I anticipate a big backlash when he gets in ZM’s team of the tournament…
Haha, ppl will blow up! But if you watch what he does out there, he in his own way is vital to the Dutch setup. It’s not pretty, but it’s effective.
Kujt has been outstanding in the tournament so far. Transitioned from right to left with ease as well. No shenanigans either, unlike with certain other dutch players ;=)
Glad to see him start, fits much better with them than van der Vaart did.
I agree, he is a team player, without ego who always tries his best. He might not be the best player in the world but he can play a position and do a good job. As long as you have the players to cover for his creative short comings.
Actually, it is very pretty. Not his physical movement, of course, he’s no gazelle, but his ball handling and passing is very good, and his movement off the ball is outstanding (not to mention his defensive contributions).
I disagree about his creativity; he’s one of the most creative Dutch players, because of his excellent awareness.
Kuyt is always in the right place at the right time doing the right thing. Great footballer.
I just watched the second half again and the Sneijder goal- does anyone know if it was a set play? If not, it was again brilliant awareness by Kuyt to make the assist.
Just before the ball is kicked, Kuyt starts his run from the far side of the box to break in front of the Brazilians guarding the near post as the ball arrives, pushing it through with perfectly weighted glancing touch to Sneijder.
Yes, Robben said after the match they had studied that corner with Frank de Boer in training. Except nobody had expected Sneijder to make the final header, of course.
Not from me… He’s been excellent
I agree.
Dunga has made Brazil more well-rounded in the few years he’s been in charge. Sure, they may be lacking a bit of flair but at times, the link-up between Maicon, Bastos, Robinho, Kaka, Elano and Fabiano was exceptional.
I think the problem is that the Brazilian media wanted flair football 100% of the time and will probably lay into Dunga for playing an anti-Brazilian style and the next coach they hire will be obliged to focus on attack first and defence second.
We have to also mention Van Marwijk. Holland rode their luck but when they left the pitch at the end of the first half, they looked like a team that had no idea how to break down the opposition. I missed the second half so I can’t comment on how flukey or great the two goals were but it’s still an amazing feat to come back from a goal down to beat the samba kings.
Dunga’s system was genuinely very good, possibly the best of any world cup team, and I can’t see Brazil being better off without him. They won all the competitions in 4 years (Copa America 2007, Confederations Cup 2009, 1st in WCQ, 3d place OG in Beijing 2008) They beat Argentina,Italy, England, Uruguay and Portugal so many times.
I think Dunga’s squad selection is questionable to say the least. His tactics are correct for the most part, and he makes Brazil so difficult to beat. But on the rare occasion when they went behind, the team looked out of sorts and there was no one on the bench to turn to. No doubt there will be arguments on what if Ronaldinho were selected (instead of the useless Baptista…)
I don’t understand why Dunga’s system was the best at the world cup? They were wonderfully set up on the counter attack and incredibly difficult to beat- but in 3 out of their 5 games they looked toothless going forward.
Many people questioned the wisdom of playing a midfield axis as uninspiring as Melo-Gilberto and they were ultimately proved correct. Dunga’s system allowed Brazil to maximise their athletic strengths and counter-attacking ability but also exposed their greatest weakness- a lack of top class passing midfield players. When teams did not allow themselves to be exposed to the counter attack they were always going to be in a game with this Brazilian side.
I personally thought they needed another player like Elano in the squad. When they were struggling after the Dutch equaliser I was scratching my head as to who they could bring on for the frankly hapless Melo.
I’m not sure they were proved correct, were they? Brazil didn’t concede a goal from open play when the opposition went through the Brazil midfield – they did their job rather well.
As I said it was a fine counter attacking system- Chile are probably their favorite opponents- but due to the squad selections it completely lacked flexibility.
I said before the tournament that if a good team plays a defensive winger on Maicon and does not commit men forward then a game against Brazil will turn into a total crapshoot. They drew all those games 0-0 at home against average teams for a reason- they can only play in one way. The Melo-Gilberto axis was the primary reason for this lack of guile.
I guess what I am saying is that I disagree with the thesis that the story of Brazil’s exit is one best told by reference to mental capitulation.
I think the side was fatally flawed- they were always going to be involved in low scoring games decided by a set piece here or there. As an Englishman you should know how reliable it is to depend on superoirity at set pieces during knock out tournaments.
Having searched for that, I found “Maybe a quality counter attacking team with wing forwards are the most likely to bring the Brazilians down. Step forward Holland. That really could be a brilliant match.”
Can’t argue with you!
In 69 games in 4 years they won 50 times 12 draws and only 7 defeats and scored 145 goals
It looked like Van Bommel took a page from the Michael Ballack book of fouling early before an attack can develop.
In the same way, Robben of course embellished a lot of the fouls on him. He’s always done that. But in his defense, he was fouled a lot. Getting him on the ball more in the second half didn’t create many attacking opportunities, but it unsettled the Brazilians enough to give the Dutch a foothold.
These little things are just as vital to tactics as anything else. It looks like we’re seeing the Materazzi effect.
Van Bommel is a master at this, probably born with it, hardly needs a mentor ;=) Nevertheless, this sadly belongs to the role of the holding midfielder, the annoying ‘tactical foul’ breaking up so many counter-attacks.
He usually tends to catch a yellow card for it at some point…
Both teams were tactically fouling, and, throughout the tournament, Brazil has probably done more of it than Holland.
As far as Robben, most of the replays showed the fouls to be genuine (including the one where the Brazilian players stood over him screaming as he sat on the goal line, after a defender had hooked his foot). The only dive I saw was one where he should have stayed on his feet because he had beat his marker, as he was screaming down the touchline and hurdled the tackle. That would have been a glorious run had he kept going.
Thank you.
I was getting tired of Robben being accused of diving constantly (in other websites), when it’s so obvious he was being kicked at constantly from the word go.
I wouldn’t be surprised if his shins and calves are completely red, blue and raw.
Mind you, i’m not saying Robben is beyond reproach, his reputation at Chelsea was richly deserved.
Thanks for the review. I was lost trying to understand it. Brazil was having a field day and suddenly after Sneijder’s fluke goal, all hell broke loose. Everything just went wrong for them. Bastos was lucky not to get sent off. It was certainly a bookable offense. Lost word on Melo’s red card. This is sad. I didn’t expect Brazil to lose, not this way.
I’ve watched the replay from every cam point-of-view and I don’t the any reason why it was Julio Cesar mistake for the first goal. Misunderstanding? Yes! But clearly Julio Cesar had the position and vision advantage to punch the ball out. Thanks for Melo idiotic attempt that obstruct Cesar movement.
if a keeper comes out he has to make it clear to his defence(scream) and he has to get the ball. If not: mistake.
But why would Cesar not scream this time?? Off course he did, like he always does. Either Melo did not hear(which is most likely) or he did not trust his keeper. This was no mistake from the keeper in my book.
i agree the set pieces and indiscipline were brazil’s downfall. first half the pressing done on van bommel and roban was so intense thats y holland didnt have much to show. bastos tendency to try win the ball when he culdnt was a crucial mistake which shuld have led to his dismissal and eventual substitution. he shuld have rather have played the way chivu played in the uefa champions league, rather than trying to win the ball it wuld have been better to direct play towards the inside were roben would have had to beat melo and gilberto.
great analysis as usual, I hate it that the papers will be full about “brazil had no magic/flavour” etc. they were a very good team as you pointed out but today they just made two terrible mistakes and couldnt come back.
I partly disagree on the brazilian goal regarding Robben though. of course Robben is also to blame but the positioning of OOjer and Heitinga was just awful, there was way too much space between them. I think one of them got forward to Kaka and the huge gab between them was the result. the fullback should have taken Robinho since Robben was behind him from the start and had no real chance of marking him. Nevertheless Robben should have picked up Bastos.
Holland were a bit lucky but Brazil was not an undeserved loser.
The situation in the end with Huntelaar was the most ridiculous scene of this WC!(even worse than yacubu imo)
In a Dutch tv-show, Wim Suurbier (one of the “Total Football” players of 1974) said if Huntelaar would have lived in those days and done that, they (meaning: his fellow Dutch players) would have snapped his neck.
How can you be so sloppy at that stage and with only one goal lead?
Massive credit must go to van Marwijk, it seemed inconceivable that holland would get a result at half time. Dissapointed for Brazil, as i am sure that Dunga will get lambasted even though the defeat, had little to do with him but rather poor choices by his players.
ZM,
One of your articles mentions the team most likely to win the world cup was the one with the best fullbacks. In this quarterfinal game, the team with a more wide formation and better wingers won.
I don’t think I said that, did I? Sounds more like a Jonathan Wilson claim…
I think he said that the last 4 world cups were won by the side with the best performing full backs, think he also said that trend wouldn’t happen this time?
I said earlier today Kuyt had the most subtle of great individual performances this world cup. Not only did he nullify Maicon for the mos part anyway, but he was the extra man in midfield and aided De Jong and van Bommel. He’s not scoring and he doesn’t provide as much but he was key today, no question.
I was shocked at Brazil’s mental attitude. But as mentioned they weren’t used to chasing a game and that equalizer phased them, not to mention the card after was a direct effect of it. What was the difference between chasing the U.S. last summer and losing their heads and not doing so this time around? The stage?
There were a few difference between this match and the one last summer – they were down two at the half but Brazil scored one mintue into the second half so they knew they had almost a full 45 minutes to score the second goal. Plus they had all eleven men on the pitch and like you said, the stage wasn’t nearly as massive. Also, the USA team isn’t as good as this Holland team and Brazil simply wore them down until they equalized. You could also point out that Kaka was much closer being the best player in the world where as now I’d hesitate to even put him in the top ten. Today, Brazil panicked when they went down.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen the momentum in a match swing so dramatically in such a short time. After the first 15 minutes Holland looked so beaten and so devoid of ideas that I was tempted to go back to sleep! Amazing capitulation from Brazil in the second half. For me the final result was a lot more about Brazil collapsing than Holland fighting back. Even in the second half, the Dutch were shockingly bad in front of goal; looking forward to watching Spain tear them apart!
Eh, I am sure the Germany – England game could be mentioned regarding swings. Germany go in front, England swing back – ref fails, killing momentum but England keeps trying. Then one good counter, and game over.
That’s not really a swing.
Germany were in total control for 45 minutes and should have been 4-0 up. England gained some momentum towards the end of the first half but that wouldn’t have really changed anything.
Even in the second half, Germany were happy to sit back and wait for the counter. The whole time England held possession in the second half, failing to trouble the back four or Neueur.
The difference between Brazil’s first half performance and second half performance was unbelievable. Germany were miles superior for 90 minutes.
Man Utd – Bayern, CHAMPS League Quarter final 2nd leg. Olic scores st the stroke of half time, Rafael gets sent off minutes into the second half and the game was over then.
In any case, tactics aside, the reasons for this Brazil result were,
1. A little complacency from brazil after the 1st half
2. van Bommel not picking up a deserved yellow early in the first half
3. Shocking goal keeping from Cesar
4. Brazil losing their heads with more then 20 minutes left to level the match
5. Robben diving of course (I don’t know why he causes problems because he is a one trick pony – go inside and shoot)
6. Inconsistent refereeing (that’s no surprise seeing this world cup)
robben is still very hard to stop even when u know hes gonna go inside, hes that good. not to mention he can actually dribble down the line as well
Trying to play a defend and counterattack game, with a left back who can’t defend (and frankly offers little going forward either), and a braindead hothead in midfield who has to cover for him is utter madness. Dunga will and should receive the blame for this.
The tactics were sound, but his player selection – from the abovementioned to the waste of a squad space named Baptista – is entirely his own fault.
Not that I’m upset. I hope Mourinhoesque tactics fail every time. Hopefully the Dutch are next.
Don’t this same players did good job before ?
For me it’s more about the players than about Dunga…
I don’t think Bastos/Melo/Baptista have ever done a good job, no. Bastos has done an ok job, but was always going to be found out against a player of Robben’s quality. Everyone (even Dunga, subbing him in the first half against Portugal) knows Melo is a red card waiting to happen, and indeed has happened numerous times. To persist with them was insane.
Didn’t*
I think zonalmarking has been consistently right about pointing out Cesar’s shaky form this season. This season has actually been his worst(form-wise) for Inter and Brazil. Most of the critics don’t watch Serie A and hence based his form all on the treble win and that sensational save he made against Messi in the UCL semis – and hence called him the worlds best keeper. But he has struggled with high balls and positioning all season and has lost that miraculous reflex that was apparent to all in that 0-0 draw with Man Utd the previous campaign. At his age he should be peaking but perhaps complacency seeps in when you are protected by europe’s most disciplined and brutal defence.
While he has been ropey this season, let’s not forget that it’s Melo who headed the ball into his own net, not Cesar.
It was hardly Melo’s fault more than Julio Cesar’s, though…
Can you elaborate further regarding this statement?
A bit off topic but…
I think the best ‘keeper in the world is Reina.
He may not be a permanent fixture in the national team but he consistently pulls out spectacular saves. He also doesn’t have the luxury of a Terry, Vidic, Puyol or Lucio in front of him.
True mate ! Without him the ‘pool would have been scrapping for relegation !!!
Exactly! He was by miles their player of the season. When you consider the injuries to Agger and Skrtel combined with the sudden decline in Carragher, it’s amazing that he kept the same amount of clean sheets as Cech.
(And I’m a Chelsea fan…which just shows my admiration for Reina!)
He did seem way too cautious when he went into air-traffic all tournament. Could be wrong, but it appears he has been playing the tournament injured (as we saw in the group matches). Not convinced it is lack of skill.
I agree with this. He got to the UCL final and all, but he’s been worse than I can remember….
I actually think Gomes was better this season particularly towards the end, my impression from Inter fans is that Cesar has been surprisingly shaky since the car crash early 2010 even if he wasn’t really that injured. But Gomes doesn’t have nearly as much experience in big games like CL finals or international tournaments.
Even Sneijder mentioned afterwards he knew Cesar was weak with high balls that’s why he tried that free kick.
I think one of the keys of the 2nd half was how deep Brasil were setting their defensive line.
Holland weren’t being particularly offensive, only putting 3 men forward, but still the brasilian defense withdrew too much.
This caused a gap in midfield as the rest of the brasilian team weren’t maintaining the distance between the lines.
If this was the result of Dunga’s instruction or the effect of the fake 2 man pressure Holland were putting, is a question that will remain.
In the end 2 lucky goals and a sloppy brasilian 2nd half solved the match.
P.S: Just to point out the lack of attacking options Dunga had on the bench. Nilmar, Grafite and Julio Baptista. 3 good players, but not game breakers…. and only Baptista can be considered an established player, even though his role on the national team is very slim.
People won’t forget that Pato, Ronaldinho and many others could have helped this team.
If Pato never had bad injury season like this year I believe Dunga picked him and he would be in national team. But Ronaldinho is different, in 2006 he was horrible and in 2010 he couldn’t fit with Dunga all-pressing system.
Dunga never recalled Pato because he [Pato] is an indisciplined brat who moaned about being substituted in a friendly.
I wouldn’t have recalled him either.
The goal threats for Brasil was always coming from Robinho,Kaka or Maicon. Van Marwijk’s tactics were spot on. Van Der Wiel was very effective he was able to keep Robinho quiet and was also making forward runs. Robinho’s lack of defensive attitude meant that Robben was able to put a lot of pressure on Bastos. Ooijer was tight on Kaka and he cut out the early balls on the break. The amount of work Kuyt put on preventing Maicon paid off, he was quiet through out the match. Van Bommel and De Jong were very effective. Van Bommel won a lot of fifty-fifty balls and broke up a lot of Brasilian attacks. Robben gave Brasil a taste of their own medicine with some quick feet and a play acting. Brasil had it coming with their petulant attitude.
It’s really about Dunga’s selections for me. When Brasil were down what could they do? Two creative players: Robinho and Kaka. Robinho looked sulky after a great first half. He just doesn’t have it mentally when the going gets tough. It’s also easier to stop Kaka when he has to come deep for the ball and take it some 30 yards just to get it into a dangerous spot. He’s not the man to bring it into the the last third; he should be making plays in the last third. Without a bridging player they really needed Ronaldhino to hold up the ball.
Dunga’s faith in Melo is great for the players but sometimes faith in the men who got you there can bite you.
With Dungas skills as a manager inevitably going to be criticised in the media at home, is he now going to struggle to find another top job? We all know here on ZM that he is a very intelligent and tactical coach, but will this defeat now ruin his chances of landing a big job in Europe somewhere? I hope not… Maybe Inter Milan made the decision to bring in Rafa Benitez a litlle too soon! Dunga will more than likely be looking for a new job now and I hope he gets a good one too!
But at this early stage of his managerial career can he really handle a club team? It could end up a huge mistake like Scolari
Bring him to arsenal then
I’d like to see van Marwijk try replacing de Jong (not in the semis through suspension) with Sneijder and playing van der Vaart behind van Persie.
Stekelenburg
Boulahrouz Heitinga Ooijer GvB
Sneijder van Bommel
Robben van der Vaart Kuyt
van Persie
I think that there is much to be said about the defensive stability of the Dutch, but they look far too static offensively for a team of their caliber. With Kuyt being more of a workhorse than a creative winger, Sneijder looking to shoot from within 40 yards every time he gets the ball, and Robben constantly cutting inside (and looking to shoot as well), there is not enough passing to unlock the isolated van Persie and really get chances on goal. I think van Bommel and de Jong have done their jobs well, but I think Sneijder would do better as a deep-lying playmaker and someone more content to play two-touch football should play at the head of the 3. With de Jong suspended for the Uruguay/Ghana semi (a very winnable game either way), I think that van Marwijk should experiment before sending out a ponderous, static attack to face the likes of Germany, Argentina, or Spain in the final.
I absolutely agree.
First of all, De Jong’s natural replacement would be either Demi de Zeeuw or Stijn Schaars, and i think both are a step down from Nigel de Jong.
In Holland some pundits say to put v.d. Vaart in De Jong’s place, but i think your option is better because:
1: v.d. Vaart “clicks” more with Van Persie, as you could see in the game against Cameroon, where Van Persie scored his only goal after a one-two.
2: Sneijder’s passing is best when it’s long. He has a long pass that can release wingers.
3: Sneijder is too intent on scoring from distance instead of linking up with RvP. He’s too eager to be “the man”. You can see this with set pieces too. Even from 40 yards you will see him try to score instead of finding a head.
4: v.d. Vaart is too slow for the deep lying playmaker position. If he loses the ball, there is likely to be a hole that can be exploited.
I like your suggestion and would love to see this change in tactics
However, van Marwijk wil never to this. He is a very conservative coach and does not like to make changes to his tactics. He likes to put in players into a system that they know so it’s easy to make substitutes. Demy de Zeeuw wil come in for de Jong and Boulahrouz will come in for vdWiel.
It makes the midfield too soft, especially with the Netherlands’ shaky defense. Attacking players need to have a strong defensive foundation to have the confidence to go forward.
Especially going against Forlan with the form he is in right now, you absolutely need a defensive midfielder to make sure he doesn’t work his magic between the lines.
Not saying it won’t happen, not saying it wouldn’t make the match open and entertaining, I’m just saying the Netherlands are more likely to lose games if van bommel is their most defensive minded midfielder.
Despite Dunga having a great system, that his squad selection (very much like Lippi)cost him the world cup. He chose to bring to the world players of the likes of Gilberto,Kleberson,and Graffite, instead of Pato, Ronaldinho, and Diego. Although this can be justified on squad discipline, harmony, etc, in the end it lend itself to make this, a very one-dimensional team, with few resources off-the bench. Although a shadow of his former self, Ronaldinho’s flair, and sheer creativity, would have been a more than welcome option in the final quarter of the game, only one simple goal play, like Maradona’s against Brazil in the 1990 world cup, would have made him invaluable.
I don’t know why this Brazil team are so different in two halves. Anything happened in the changing room?
Despite Dunga having a great system,his squad selection (very much like Lippi)cost him the world cup. He chose to bring to the world players of the likes of Gilberto,Kleberson,and Graffite, instead of Pato, Ronaldinho, and Diego. Although this can be justified on squad discipline, harmony, etc, in the end it lend itself to make this, a very one-dimensional team, with few resources off-the bench. Although a shadow of his former self, Ronaldinho’s flair, and sheer creativity, would have been a more than welcome option in the final quarter of the game, only one simple goal play, like Maradona’s against Brazil in the 1990 world cup, would have made him invaluable.
I will paste my comment writen here after first match of Brazil against North Korea:
Daniel on June 16, 2010 at 1:21 am
Brazil probably have worse squad ever:
Robinho- started at Man City-finished at Santos with year to forget!…
Kaka- One of the Real worse players this year…
Melo- Arguably biggest flop in Serie A…
Elano- playing for Galatasaray, nothing more to say…
Gilberto Silva- Panathinaikos, nothing more to say…
Luis Fabiano- lost his form after injury…
So there is whole offensive starting lineup for Brazil…
Dunga got whole game wrong… Brazil for 55 minutes have no idea how to score a goal, and the goal came from individual performance from Maicon who try to pass the ball- rather then score goal from “dead” angle!
Brazil are team that play on their “name”… they are far from titlle contender!
North Korea tonight just prove that!
P.S. Sorry Brazil fans but this is just pathetic!!!
This text was criticized, disparaged and condemned… but i said that we should wait and see who will be right at the end.
Greeting to Robert (who tought that club form does not equal national team form)
to Tomek (who called me “hater”)
to hwk (who tought I was brainwashed by “big-names” players)
to hobbitonfc (who said:”Don’t judge based on reputation, but on performance”)
to bleustilton (who tought people are stupid for criticizing Brazil play)
I just wanted to mark my word… better team went in semi-final
To be honest, your analysis of the Brazilian attack is a bit light. That’s like saying Steven Gerrard is an average player because Liverpool finished 7th or that Cristiano Ronaldo is a flop because he didn’t win any trophies this year. Your post is very much a “Goal.com statement” where you come up with any ridiculous comments to back up your invalid theory.
So what if Elano and Gilberto play for those two teams? It doesn’t necessarily mean that they are terrible players. Landon Donovan plays for LA Galaxy yet is the USA’s best player by a mile. He also enjoyed a very good spell at Everton, a top flight English team.
Robinho was actually chased by Barcelona at one point but they never acted on their interest. Plus HE was the one who wanted to move back to Brazil just like Adriano. Santos are a great club with great history and one where he made his name. He only went to City for the money and quickly grew fed up.
Kaka has been struggling with a recurring injury for a little while now. He was constantly out of the team because of it so it’s hard to call him a Real Madrid flop when he’s not had a decent run of games. Plus he has joined a new team which is full of other stars who want to be the team saviour. If you’re condemning a man based on one bad year, very few footballers would have intact reputations.
The problem was that Brazil got complacent and conceded two sloppy goals. Yes, their attack isn’t as strong as previous teams that consisted of Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and Rivaldo but the claim that a player is bad because of who he plays for is ludicrous.
Maicon is one of the best in the world…
Kaka, is very good but maybe not the player he was.
I think the Robinho for Brazil would be wanted by many sides… The Robinho for club sides you can forget about…
Fabiano is a striker at a very good level, but not top level yet.
Lucio has been a very great defender, and is still good.
The rest are a mix or nice and average, but most can do a good job. It’s not a very good side, but their tactics/formation are excellant and they compensate for lack of more talent.
Look at the squad and maybe you wouldn’t say world cup favourites, but look at the shirt and the way they play as a team and you think who will beat them? Was very glad to see them go out!
Regular season doesn’t play that much into the world cup. Despite C.Ronaldo, and Rooney having sensational seasons, they were barely noticeable, even worse was Ronaldinho in 2006. On the other hand you have Zidane and Figo in 2006, being almost retired players, and Ron9ldo in 2002 coming back from bad knee injuries, and taking over the world cup. Unlike a regular season, this is a tournament where you only have to play 7 games to become a champion, and in the final stages teams are pretty much leveled in terms of quality and tactics. This types of games require more than skill, or pace, or numbers, mental strength, courage, and drive against adversity. Attributes that Brazil completely lacked today. Mentally, they simply lost it after the Dutch scored, and this in the end, is what separates good players from the all-time greats.
Haha well done sir
sorry i havn’t read it earlier.
I have not said that you were ‘brainwashed by “big-names” players’, i said you were brainwashed by the media, the commercials and the stupid talking about big names.
as a great player you don’t have to play for Real Madrid or United.
football is a team sport, advertising is a sport for individuals.
I’ve never expected a team like this punching itself out of the tournament as we’ve seen today. The Netherlands were dead until the Cesar/Melo goal. Big individual mistakes and the refusal to continue the style they showed in the first half made them loose.
Van Bommel said in the german tv that brazil “didn’t finish their game” in second half. Nothing to add.
Brazil’s best (only?) chance to increase their lead was a 25 yarder from Kaka. This wasn’t a team wasting chances- this was a team incapable of fasioning chances against a half way organised defense.
…just thought that Van Bommel is really good at analyzing games…I won’t be surprised if he is going to be a very good coach. It’s probably very useful to have a player like him in your team.
Yeah I thought the same. He is one of the few players whose post game interviews are interesting. He gives pretty solid and balanced analysis even a few minutes after the game.
He shows coach like thinking. Very important for a team on the pitch.
Firstly, I did not think that Holland had the horses to beat this very well organised Brasil, but I was wrong. It was Brasil who fell apart.
I’ve also just finished reading the article from MArch about how to categorize the Brazilian formation. My thought when watching them is to think of it like this:
2 center backs, 2 wing backs, 2 holding mids, 1 free midfielder (Elano/Dani Alves), 1 treqartista, 2 forwards…or maybe 1 forward and 2 treqartista, since Kaka and Robinho seem to combine alot. In modern notation that would be 4-2-1-1-2 OR 4-2-1-2-1. In either event, clearly 5 bands of players. The core of it is actually the square that the holding mids and center backs form, with allthe other players essentially free to be themselves. I term it “The Brailian Box” since it really does make up the real heart of their defnesive coverage, the slides to cover attacking wing backs come from the midfielders, rather than the center backs (different than playing with a piared center backs and a holding mid/center half) since those coverages come from the central backs, who are in turn covered by the holding mid.
If my team were playing against Brazil, this is how I would teach my players to think of it.
Honestly, I already expected Melo getting the axe from the national press (as Ronaldo recomended, he shouldn’t spend his vacations in Brazil anytime soon) but that he was being as criticised internationally came as a bit of a surprise to me.
He is actually a very underrated player, people should look at his long passes (like the one on Brazil’s goal) before saying Brazil need a “distributive midfielder”, in fact, Melo has had the best passes completed percentage of the team.
Sure, the man is unstable, and thats is a big liability (Portugal strategy on the first half seemed to be “get Melo out”), but thats nothing that experience and a calm, smart coach shouldn’t fix. Leonardo (who may be Dunga’s replacement) could probably do it.
Melo has his good points, but in combination with Gilberto Silva and Alves there is something creative missing in that part of the midfield. His temperament is definitely suspect, but the panic was contagious last night, and it wasn’t altogether his fault. The aggression of the Brazilian team may have had a lot to do with Dunga’s influence.
Don’t you think that Scolari will make a return?
Well, Scolari would already have been anounced as new coach for Brazil if it wasn’t by the fact that he was hired by Palmeiras (a rich brazilian club) about a month ago. his complicates things alot. Besides him and Leonardo, Mano Menezes (Corinthians overrated coach), Ricardo Gomes and Muricy Ramalho (the tactician who won 3 brazilian titles with São Paulo and is currently working a Fluminense) are considered good names for the position.
I’m very disappointed with you ZM. The entire article smarts of someone who is annoyed to have been proven wrong in predicting Brazil as winners. I preached to anyone who would listen before and during the tournament that Brazil will eventually come up against a half decent, more experienced team (you could hardly count N Korea, Portugal and Ivory Coast, they were pretty woeful in truth, and Chile were no great shakes) and lack a plan B when it eventually matters. Dunga comes across as a very stubborn man and I for one am glad that the Dutch progressed, even if it an ugly victory
In ZM’s defense I didnt get that feeling from the article. I feel he was more disappointed how Brazil just totally self-destructed when they had a good game plan, and up till that point had been very good tactically. I know I was shocked seeing that meltdown. It was a very ugly game, but a win is a win. The Dutch should be very happy indeed, especially since the semifinal should be a breeze with Suarez out for Uruguay. Stop Forlan, and they have an easy path to the finals.
How would you liked to have seen the article written? It pretty much just says what happened tactically, just like any other report on the site. Point out anything that ’smacks of someone who is annoyed’.
Love the patronising “I’m very disappointed in you”, though.
Am I the only one who thinks Robben – almost single handedly was the player that made the difference today?
Despite being man marked and drawing two defenders each time he got the ball, he still managed to frustrate and cause Brazil problems down their left in the second half with his technique and positioning.
In summary he drew the free kick for the first goal and frustrated his markers resulting in the send off.
BTW IMO. After seeing some of Robben’s Champions League goals in big games, expect to see some big things from him in the next few games.
…he didn’t play well, but he made the difference … or better Brazil focused too much on him and that caused their whole trouble….
Robben is almost as tactically dangerous as Messi. Even when he’s not scoring goals, he’s tying up the defense, pulling them out of shape, and getting free kicks.
I would have liked to have seen him be a bit less selfish today when he had the opportunities, but he was effective. He wants to shoot because he’s on target more often than not. You can’t fault that in a game where it looked like there weren’t going to be a lot of openings.
RvP, on the other hand, smacks of desperation to get a goal, no matter how poor his chances and how open his support is.
I can’t put too much blame to the Brazilian players regarding disciplinary issues, except Felipe Melo, because they’ve seen Elano take a tournament ending challenge and players like Robinho were clearly rattled about the fouls in previous matches.
I don’t understand why Felipe Melo would stamp Arjen Robben like that. If they want him to stand up, stop knocking him down. It would make things better for everyone.
Robin van Persie had a tough job as the “false nine” because we’ve witnessed his supporting players can get very occupied further back and leave him isolated. Robin thrives on neat link-up plays but he hasn’t had much opportunity to make them happen.
Finally, it was sad to see the Brazilian team fizzle out like that. It was surprising how they lost composure after the first and second goals. A team with Brazil’s quality should be capable of scoring another goal, but it seems their players just can’t play 100% until the final whistle. They needed to reassert themselves after the Dutch equalizer, but they went downhill instead.
I think we saw the biggest problems with Dunga’s formation/tactics today:
1. Inspite of being totally dominant they generally don’t finish off oppositions unless the teams are going all out attack against them like chile. So other teams are always in with a chance with a sloppy/lucky goal. And that’s what happened today.
2. Brazil’s counter-attacking style isn’t really suited for times they fall behind, which showed. They didn’t really knew how to react after letting the 1st goal in. Maybe Dunga should have changed the formation after giving away 2nd goal to be more urgent!
3. There was no real plan B, no real creative player on bench, no super sub. Nilmar for Fabiano that’s it ? He didn’t even made 3 subs. Probably should have kept another creative or impact player for bench.
Finally they were over-reliant on trio of Kaka-Robinho-Fabiano out of which Kaka was fairly average throughout.
Curiously, Dunga’s Brazil often struggled to clamp down on opponents. Last year they contrived to go down 2-0 to the US at the CC, and they conceded soft goals to both North Korea and Ivory Coast in this World Cup. Impressive as the Dutch fightback was, both goals were a bit soft from Brazil’s point of view. From a set piece and a hopeful cross hoofed into the box? Oy.
This was always going to be a rough outcome for the losing manager. Both have abandoned the “traditional” styles of play for their respective nations, however anachronistic those systems have become. Particularly galling for Dunga is the fact that he was appointed to instill the very discipline and savoir-faire that his side so obviously lacked today. Although he curtailed off-pitch matters by ending circus training sessions and dropping unreliable bon vivants Ronaldinho and Adriano, his players lost their heads on the field, failing to to defend basic set pieces properly and losing their cool at crucial moments. Even worse, they looked largely toothless chasing the game for the last 25 minutes. They didn’t bombard the Dutch goal, and the Oranje aren’t exactly starting Baresi and Maldini back there.
Good observation regarding Heitinga and Vermaelen pressing far up. Bet it’s an Ajax thing.
Anyone else notice that, the last three times Brazil have gone out of the World Cup, that they’ve fallen to crosses from set pieces?
Both goals today (1st one was one pass from a free kick, second a corner)
Henry’s winner in 2006
Zidane’s header’s in 98…with none other than Dunga in the 6 yard box.
Pattern?
And does anyone else think Uruguay have a puncher’s chance against Netherlands, even despite Suarez’ absence? De Jong suspended, Godin and Lugano probably to return in defense, and Boulharouz likely to deputise for the suspended Van Der Wiel, which looks like a gift to Forlan. All it will take is a stupid foul from Khalid the cannibal in an inviting position and Forlan could add to his goal tally from a direct FK.
Thoughts?
Good argument Michael, I was thinking Uruguay had not a chance in hell. Now I think they might have a puncher’s chance. Like you I would think it would come from a Forlan FK. I figure the Dutch will just look to smother Forlan, and van Marwijk will tell his defense to do there best not to foul. Besides Forlan, is there another player that is even a threat to score? They had DB’s taking penalties today, that should say alot.
Cavani is a decent player (as seen at Palermo this season) and Abreu has a knack for scoring important goals (against Costa Rica, for example) as well as having vast experience. Lodeiro might just catch fire too (although I doubt it). The other factor is mentality: despite not reaching this stage since 1970, the Uruguayans feel as though they belong here on the world stage. They have great self-confidence. Tabarez is a sensible manager, they won’t go gung-ho for the win, OT will keep it nice and compact, and Holland will struggle to break them down. Don’t write the Uruguayans off.
When has Khalid made a stupid foul for Holland? (Can’t judge on club level)
Four years ago, Khalid actually made Messi invisible in the group game against Argentina, if memory serves.
And Forlan is no Messi.
On the other hand, i’ve seen a very weak v.d.Wiel against Slovakia.
I’m not worried about Bouhlarouz. I’m more worried about De Jong’s replacement.
About Bouhlarouz though, he will go forward but has nothing to offer there as his crossing is attrocious.
… the question was raised which team can beat Brazil? … now we now: Brazil can beat Brazil
…. the biggest mistake was to focus too much on Robben… that led to the fouls, the early substitution of Bastos and also the red card for Melo … in a way Robben won the game, not because he played very well but Brazil just overdone it with trying to prevent his dangerous runs … you can’t blaim Robben for this, but Brazil killed themself by over fulfilling Dunga’s tactics…
For a neutral onlooker it was a spectacular game … or I should better say fight
….
How could Robben play well when he had two defenders on him every time he had the ball?
He realised this and positioned himself to draw the foul from the defender.
Was anyone else as impressed with the ref as I was?
It was a game where the Brazilians set the tone with their initial burst of fouling and the Dutch [with van Bommel prominent as usual] quickly showed they were up for it as well.
There could easily have been more cards, but the only person sent off was the idiot Felipe Melo who was absolutely asking for it.
Not only that, I enjoyed his grin as he reassured Ooijer at the end he had accidentally pulled out a red and that he was actually getting a yellow.
He seemed to discount the playacting and protests from both sides appropriately. I think he did well to keep control and keep as many players on the field as he did. Best refereeing display of the tournament so far for me.
No card for Van Bommel? Despite at least four yellow-worthy offences!
Don’t get me wrong about Van Bommel; he’s worth at least a yellow every game he plays. Today I thought he had stayed within the standard the ref had set for the game until he committed 3 or 4 fouls in the last 5 minutes of the game; I thought he’d collect his card then.
I like this ref too, not just this game, but the others in this WC so far. He always keeps his cool with a bemused detached attitude, doesn’t get drawn into escalation of hostility. Certainly among the best at this WC.
Yeah, that ref did a really good job keeping control in a game that he could of let get out of hand very easily, or becoming about him with multiple red cards.
Multiple red cards were warranted. No one wants to see it happen, but many players would have only themselves, and not the ref, to blame if they got sent off yesterday.
And I wouldn’t exactly call that bad tempered affair “controlled”.
I was not impressed, to my opinion he should have given a yellow card straight away for Bastos or Melo (don’t exactly remember who it was) first challenge on Robben. By not doing it, this game turned nasty straight away.
I thought that after that there were fouls all over the place and the game never got flowing
I thought the officiating was very good, but I do think van Bommel needs a yellow card the instant he emerges round the stupid plinth, just to keep him halfway honest, otherwise he unleashes his masterful skill at fouling just enough to break the play but not enough to get the card.
And in this connection it seems Sergio Busquets has observed the change in refereeing and concluded his outrageous diving is a liability now…
Maybe I had a bias today for Holland (despite being a capoerista, I just like Holland/Spain/Germany/Argentina better than Brazil this year), but i didn’t think Brazil was as dominant in the first half as everyone has been stating. Does anyone have first half possession statistics? The final game statistics were about equal, but I’m curious if it was much different in the first half.
Certainly Brazil had the better attacks in the first half. But despite the defensive error that allowed Robinho’s goal, the Dutch looked completely in the game to me, winning a lot of the midfield fights for possession, working hard and pressing. I always felt it was a matter of time until they’d find a way to equalize. I was wondering when they’d start to work it more to the right. Stekelenburg had one goal kick that he sent to the crowded left side (which Brazil won) when there was a player open with a ton of space on the right.
I remember 52% possession for Brazil in the first half, but that’s coming from a pretty faulty memory. If that number is correct, however, it doesn’t show the true picture. Holland kept decent possession among their defenders, but struggled to hold the ball on the other side of the pitch. Brazil moved the ball up-field quickly. Holland had a decent amount of possession, but it was hard to see where the goals would come from.
Ball posession in football shows nothing but tactical mindsets of the teams.
There are many teams who give the ball away but still control the game. Brazil did in my opinion like this in first half: Solid defense and fast, technical brillant attacks out of the midfield that catched the netherlands defense in the wrong situations.
They stopped the attacks in second half and with additional individual mistakes they gave the game away.
Credit goes to Netherlands that didn’t get that desperate when they were losing 1-0. If there’s something common within the teams that are defeated by Brazil is that they play good… until Brazil scores. After that, it becomes a bloodfest for Brazil. Netherlands tried to keep their order to make a comeback and they got it… although with luck, but they got it, nonetheless. Brazil isn’t just used to chase games.
Completely agree, I wonder what were the Brazilians thinking before, during, and after the game…
And I gotta say, I’m glad that Brazil is out. My main reasons for that are: 1) I’m tired of seeing them in the World Cup Finals and 2) with this result, you can certainly expect a great game between Argentina vs Germany. Since they obviously would rather play Netherlands or Uruguay in the final (in case they get there) than Brazil. So, they know that this is a great chance for winning the World Cup. Of course, not ignoring Spain or Netherlands/Uruguay, but everyone saw Brazil as the strongest team to defeat. With them out of the way, the remaining teams will be more motivated.
I don’t think that Paraguay will defeat Spain, so I expect both semifinals to be epic: Uruguay vs Netherlands and Spain vs Germany/Argentina.
….”with this result, you can certainly expect a great game between Argentina vs Germany”….
Huh??? … sorry, I can’t follow this logic ….
The ESPN commentary team was too biased. They went on to glorify Brazil and say that Robben had cheated them for the goal, etc etc… Especially Shebby Singh is a hard core Brazil supporter.
On the contrary, I feel that Brazil’s plan to contain Robben was to kick him out of the game which Michel Bastos consistently did. He should have been sent out earlier. This was followed up by Melo after Bastos’ substitution. Highly indisciplined display by Brazil. Have some respect for the referee Robinho – No point in shouting in his face! Dunga clearly failed to control the temper of his players. He should have taught them to be gracious losers.
Hats off to Holland for not being dejected by the goal and coming back to destroy Brazil. Brazil were deserving losers. Robben and Sneijder were excellent. Kuyt was the work horse. Really deserved his goal, poor boy.
Hope Holland wins the world cup…
shebby singh suck, i wrote an email to espn pundits lol.. they are always biased and always will be… gerry armstraong is great, though
The result of this match was not altogether surprising. Dunga’s approach to Brazilian football, despite its consistent success, has never been completely convincing, if only because his straight-faced austerity went against the grain of traditional Brazilian football culture. When the stress of expectations became too much, as it did on this occasion, the team’s discipline deserted them precisely because their structure and tactics had been imposed and had not been fully assimilated. This is not to say that Dunga was altogether wrong in his strategy; it is to suggest that that his determination to make the Brazilians play in an Italianate manner was deeply at odds with their desire to entertain, to do things in style, to play ‘futebol arte’.
Dunga was also unfortunate. Injuries and suspensions reduced his options and placed too much pressure on Melo, who has always had temperamental difficulties. And there can be little doubt that the Dutch employed gamesmanship, winding up the Brazilians, especially Bastos and Melo, and falling over at the slightest pretext. They had easily identified Brazilian weaknesses – the left back and the defensive midfield, and seemed to be trying to provoke heated responses from their opponents. This had little effect on the Brazilians in the first half, but succeeded dramatically in the second. The first goal came after a theatrical dive from Robben, which brought about a free kick and a turbulent reaction from the Brazilians. Paying a big price for allowing themselves to be goaded, their impressive defence imploded.
It was curious that the referee didn’t deal with rough play more firmly. There were cynical fouls from both sides, but the Dutch infringements appeared to be especially leniently dealt with. The result will not come as a disappointment to FIFA, who surely would not have wanted Brazil to host the next World Cup as champions, but it was not a triumph for football. This was an ugly and unsatisfying game. The Brazilians destroyed themselves, strangely and unexpectedly, and tactics had little to do with this. Perhaps the team just wasn’t good enough to go further in the tournament. It may be true, after all, that Dunga’s fundamental mistake was to have sacrificed flair for too much efficiency, a quality that did not, in the end, seem tosuit the Brazilians well. But at least he has been honourable enough to resign, having stated clearly at the outset that his only objective was to win.
I don’t agree
… for me (as a neutral onlooker) it was one of the most entertaining and thrilling games (better fights
) so far…and in my opinion it also had a lot to do with tactics e.g. the focus on Robben and to prevent his runs contributed heavily on Brazil’s “suicide”….I also don’t think that the referee favored a side … o.k. v. Bommel definitely should have seen a yellow card, but on the other side Bastos also was very, very close to a second one (or a straight red)….it was a thriller, a historical match … but I understand that it is very tough for a Brazilian fan to cope with the result….
Admittedly I support Brazil. And I I’m sure that the Brazilians did more than their due to impose themselves on the Dutch. But this comes from the New York Times review of the game – and I don’t think they have any reason to be biased!
“In the locker room, van Marwijk admonished his tentative, insecure players to have patience but also to dare to win.
“We became more professional, more clever,” he said.
Well, clever is one way to describe how Robben played in the second half. Those who rooted for Brazil might use a less flattering characterization.
Late in the first half, Bastos was shown a yellow card by the Japanese referee Yuichi Nishimura for repeatedly fouling Robben. Craftily, Robben later used this increased scrutiny to his advantage.
In the 53rd minute, he did a theatrical cartwheel to avoid a sliding challenge by Bastos and lay on the ground in evidently phantom pain. Bastos did not appear to touch him. But Nishimura awarded the Netherlands a free kick from the right flank.”
….”In the 53rd minute, he did a theatrical cartwheel to avoid a sliding challenge by Bastos and lay on the ground in evidently phantom pain. Bastos did not appear to touch him. But Nishimura awarded the Netherlands a free kick from the right flank.”
…so in your opinion he should have waited till he get serious injured before he made a move????? ….
…an attempted foul and as a consequence a free kick… what’s wrong with this?
…and wrt theatrical skills and talent IMO similar could be said about some Brazilian players….Robinho for example wasn’t a “choirboy”…
Those who rooted for Brazil should be outraged not with the alleged diving by Robben which in all but one or two instances were genuine fouls, but by the tactic of trying to kick Robben off the pitch as soon as he threatened to do anything with the ball. It started from the first moment where he was kicked by Melo in the center of the pitch, for which he did NOT get a booking.
I can mention at least four potential sendings off for Brazil, two of which did not even have anything to do with Robben.
I also find it interesting that one of Brazil’s players seemingly advised Melo walking into the tunnel to be more firm.
In the second half, Melo was sent off, for stamping Robben…..right around the area where he got injured pre-tournament.
And what was up with Robinho’s nostril flaring, eyeball-bulging temper tantrums from the word go? Has he been tested yet?
ZM, one of the best in the business, has rightly pointed to some clear trends: the rarity of come-backs during this tournament, the apparent importance of keeping a clean sheet in the knock-out stage of the World Cup, and Brazil’s fantastic defensive organization, for example. Games like this, then, are what make us love football in spite of our pool predictions.
Thanks, ZM.
No worries!
Great comment ZM once again. I have not read all replies and may be you have talked about it already.
But I find Hollands’s tactcics quiite similar to Inter’s. In Holland we have RVP in front, at Inter it is Millito. Eto’o and Pandev are the wide players at Inter. Robben and Kuyt do that for Holland. And then we have Snejder in quite free role in both sides with two DM operating behind him. The tactical switch by Mourinho during the season helped Inter win the treble. Don’t you think that Van Marwijk just took the basic elements from Inter’s scheme and gave Snejder the freedom.
Also, I am surpised that there are 3 Inter players in Brazil’s squad and they should be quite aware of Van Snejder’s strenghts. I am quite sure that Snejder and Van Marvijk had talked a lot prior to the game about the weaknesses of Lucio, Maicon and Cesar.
Your site is reak revelation for me and I have been reading non stop for the last 5-6 months.
Go on.
Yeah, that’s an interesting point, certainly the near free role Sneijder has is similar, and Kuyt’s role is very similar to the wide players at Inter too.
Indeed similar but the difference is Robben. He has far less workrate and willingness to track as comapare to either Eto’o or Pandev. The same goes to Robinho who very rarely seen tracking players.
there’s no brazillian defensive left-back in the world, that’s why dunga had to use michel bastos…
everyone talk about the “european style” of dunga in brazil, but it’s all rubbish, players still are DM who can’t play with the ball in their feet and fullbacks who think they’re forwards!
ah, and the concept of “wingers” not many people understand here… it’s all silly tactics like 4-2-2-2 and 3-6-1, that’s why so many brazillians fail miserably in europe
Filipe Luisis a brazilian left back
David Luiz can also play there.
Excuse me ZM, as this may be a little bit off topic, but are we going to read your opinion about Uruguay-Ghana ?
i think its the brazilians who lost the game rather than the ducth winning it. also the dutch in this game played ugly football the one that can’t be liked by any one falling on even feeling the breath of the opponents player hence brreaking the rythm of the game which may be the case brazilians played so awful in the second half.
but then again i think even in this case the brzilians reponsible they gave the ducth too much of the ball.
if this kind of refering had resulted an english team losing he would have been slayed by the english media but so because it was brazil.
In terms of fundamental strategies, this comment, quoted in The Guardian, is interesting:
“So, pre 1982, playing the original beautiful game, Brazil won three out of seven tournaments AND won the world’s hearts. Since 1982, they’ve won two out of seven and betrayed everything they and everyone else loved about them. A good trade, do you think?”
Perhaps winning isn’t everything. Will it be this Holland team that is remembered, even if they go on to win the tournament, or will it be ‘failures’ of the 1970’s?
Does anybody even remember the Italy that won in 2006?
It is time for a return to different values.
Well put.