Brazil 3-1 Ivory Coast: Brazil always in control
Classic Brazil under Dunga. A comfortable victory, won by controlling the ball when they have it, and controlling the space when they don’t.
Brazil kept the same first XI as in the first game – a proper XI, numbered 1-11. Sven-Goran Eriksson made a single change – bringing back Didier Drogba after his elbow injury, with Gervinho (surprisingly) dropping to the bench.
Initially the game was low-key – the Ivory Coast dropping deep with ten men behind the ball, in their 4-3-3 shape that was 4-5-1 for most of the game. Brazil’s passing was neat, simple but rarely penetrative, with Yaya Toure doing a good defensive job on Kaka, and Robinho struggling to receive the ball in space.
Eriksson will doubtless be criticized for being negative, but that was probably the right approach for this game. Brazil love exploiting space in behind, and throwing caution to the wind and pushing the full-backs forward would have been suicidal. The wide players should be praised for their defensive duties – the breakthrough against North Korea always looked likely to come from Maicon or Michel Bastos, but today those two were relatively subdued.
Brazil defend well
Brazil were excellent in the way they defended when Ivory Coast looked to break forward. The Ivorians generally did this through the wide players looking to come inside, but because Saloman Kalou and Aruna Dindane were defending deep and picking up the ball well inside their own half, Gilberto and Melo were usually goalside, and doubled up on the threat. Melo covers the left, Gilberto the right. When either closes down the man on the ball, the other looks to get between the ball and the Brazilian goal, meaning there is generally double cover ahead of the defensive line.
This can sometimes leave Brazil exposed if the ball is shifted across the pitch, but the Ivory Coast rarely did this. The number of times their wingers took on the Brazilian full-backs was disappointing, and by looking to play in Drogba to hold up the ball, they were rarely able to build attacks – when Drogba received the ball to feet, he was surrounded by a ’square’ of Brazilians and didn’t have any support.
Brazil go ahead
The Robinho-Kaka-Fabiano triangle for the first goal
Brazil are tremendously dangerous when they manage to get Luis Fabiano, Robinho and Kaka within 10 yards of each other. Their interplay is always fantastic – generally two or three one-touch passes to work the ball into a goalscoring opportunity. Fabiano loves goalscoring opportunities from the right-hand side of the box, and here he smashed it into the top corner to put Brazil 1-0 up.
Brazil are an excellent side when ahead. The use of the two holding players means they find it very easy to keep possession of the ball – sides generally aren’t able to press high enough up the pitch to shut down Gilberto and Melo, and both are very assured on the ball, rarely looking for anything other than the simple pass. Of course, when teams do push up and close them down, that creates space somewhere else on the pitch. If the central midfielders move up towards them, it leaves Kaka or Ramires free and gives Brazil space to exploit – if the wide players come inside, the Brazil full-backs are free. Brazil’s central midfielders are in there for defensive awareness, but more important than tough tackling is the way they simply don’t let the opposition have the ball.
The Robinho-Kaka-Fabiano triangle for the second goal
The second goal, just after the break, was Luis Fabiano doing what he does best – bundling his way past the defenders to thump home. Although it was a solo goal (and he may have used his arm to control the ball) it was again notable that the Kaka-Robinho-Fabiano triangle ended up on the right-hand side of the box when the goal went in.
Ivory Coast rarely create
Eriksson used the only real major option available to him from the bench – Gervinho, who immediately showed more skill on the ball than the man he replaced, Aruna Dindane. He got at Michel Bastos (not a natural left-back, remember) and that might be an issue later on in the tournament. Maicon generally gets cover from the right-sided midfielder, but Bastos is sometimes left isolated against his winger. It was a cross from that side that found Drogba at the far post – he nodded just wide, in the Ivory Coast’s only real chance when it was still a contest.
Elano effectively ended the game with his side-foot from Kaka’s low cross. Brazil saw the game out well, although for the second time in as many matches, they conceded a sloppy late goal that smacked of a lack of concentration. Both goals have also been from a longish ball over the defence into a heading position – rather surprising, considering both Lucio and Juan are excellent in the air.
Kaka’s suspension for the final group game will present an interesting situation for Dunga, in terms of who to replace him with – Kaka’s absence was probably the nightmare situation for Brazil (if it has been for a crucial game, which it is not), with the obvious replacement Julio Baptista a different type of player. Elano’s injury (hopefully not tournament-ending) would be less of a problem in terms of personnel, with both Dani Alves and Ramires able to replace him – although with Elano’s positive performances so far, it would be a blow to lose him.
Conclusion
This game marked Brazil’s true arrival in the competition. They defended well and kept the ball excellently, but they also showed attacking flair and neat interplay, even if their passing was somewhat disappointing. The Ivory Coast pushed forward more than North Korea, so Brazil had more space to exploit, so they attacked with more flair and scored more goals.
The Ivory Coast’s tactics were not particularly bad – they defended in numbers, got men behind the ball and created excellent chances for Drogba. The exclusion of Gervinho was a very odd decision, but today they came up against a very good Brazil side who allowed them little chance to make their mark on the game. Sven hasn’t done a bad job.
Brazil 3-1 Ivory Coast: Brazil always in control
so many bad refree call’s! Kaka was defending himself from a charging player. Tiote should have been sent off.
Tiote was indeed a red card.
But you don’t defend yourself with an elbow raised high to meet the other player.
After watching the replays/youtube, I’m quite convinced Kaka did that on purpose. Keita provoking – agree, Keita deserving yellow – agree. But it’s still Kaka who got himself crossing the line. Yellow.
This is ridiculous. The guy ran into him and Kaka raised his arm to chest level. If you’re not supposed to protect yourself with your arm/elbow, then what are you supposed to protect yourself with, your face?
The fact is Kaka is not the one who initiated anything. He didn’t even throw the elbow at the attacker. He raised his arm with his elbow out and the attacker intentionally ran into him then covered his face and acted as though Kaka pulled out a bazooka and blasted his face wide open. It was an absolutely disgraceful act. I really don’t know any other sport that i watch on any basis where the players pretend to get murdered in order to get the other player sent off. The worst sport besides football is basketball, and the worst thing they do is flop for a foul call. But they never pretend to be injured or pretend to have been hit in the face and roll around for 5 minutes. In American football it is actually the opposite. People are taught from a young age to jump up quickly and act as though you’re NOT hurt. How in the world did the exact opposite thing happen in world football? Because people like you keep wanting to reward such disgraceful behavior. If you reward anyone long enough for disgraceful acts, then the disgraceful acts will increase. It is a very simple calculation.
But i think more so than this simple act, it brings out just what type of team the Ivory Coast is. They are a very “physical team” (read: dirty). There is a technical talent gap but physically they are the premier team in the world. From a purely physical stand point, i doubt any team even comes close to the Ivory Coast. They are absolute studs. So, they make up for this technical/skill talent gap like any team would, and that’s foul/hack the crap out of the other team. However, other teams aren’t as physicall dominant as the Ivory Coast, which makes their fouling/hacking that much worse. It is the refs job to put a stop to this in my opinion.
Because of the above, i quite frankly am excited to see the Ivory Coast out of the tournament. I don’t think it is very entertaining to watch this type of “football.” Or should i say anti-football?
I’m just curious what was there for Kaka to protect. Saw the repeat of the game just to be sure. The Ivorian did not fly studs first at him, his knuckle wasn’t made into a sandwich. Was the IC player really looked that scarry and menacing to Kaka, who already received a yellow card?
the referee was bad indeed, I can’t understand how poor they perform ….. in this scenario e.g. he has the option to give a straight red or nothing – he just can’t give the yellow one according to the current rules!!! … it was an assault without ball: then it was red or it was nothing…..
the handball goal was another big blow…..another referee would have sent Fabiano off for this….
in another game (Australia vs. Ghana) Kewell got a very hard shot from 5 m distance to his shoulder/upper arm – his arm close to the body: he was sent of with a straight red card and Ghana got a penalty….
the game Germany vs. Serbia (an absolute fair game without any nasty foul) ended with 9!!! yellow cards and one sent-off….
…I can only hope that the referees’ performance get better otherwise they take the fun out of it…..
Fabiano actually handled the ball twice, once when it first came to him and once immediately before he shoots. It looked pretty deliberate.
Elano not Ramires?
Doh…
Brazil have plenty to clean up (their maturity at the end of the game, for one – Kaka was unfairly sent off but stupid to put himself in trouble earlier). However it’s good to see that things are sort of working at this point.
My biggest tactical frustration so far has been the lateness or lack of subs for Brazil. Wouldn’t it have made sense once CIV were frustrated to take off Kaka and put in JB?
Exactly, the game started to get very rough in the end and i was wondering why Dunga didn’t protect his main player from injury (no-one could expect Kaka getting a red card, he is such a fair player).
Mystified by decision to leave Gervinho out. He was their best attacking player against Portugal. Bastos definitely doesn’t look at home yet. Miscontrolled an awful lot of balls in promising positions.
Emm.. There are two Eboués in your formation diagram ZM.
I feel Côte d’Ivoire could have done more if they attack on the right flank, between Bastos and Juan, using Eboué on the flank, not in the middle.
He was everywhere tonight…
Cheers, corrected.
I think you’re being a little easy on Eriksson. They really should’ve pushed harder against a pretty poor Portugal side. Winning that game was probably a must. He’s certainly done well in organising them and improving them from their Afican Nations ‘effort’ but he’s been pretty typical Sven otherwise. They are mostly relying on Portugal to falter now, which Portugal may well, but you want things in your own hands.
…IC had a nearly ideal position: a draw against Brazil and a win over North Korea with 2 goal difference would have get them through…. I can’t understand Eriksson to make it so easy for Brazil, but it might be that his position as a coach is not as strong as it has to be and that the influence of some players are too big when it comes to tactic…….
If you’re basing your qualification on getting a draw out of Brazil, you’ve got a big problem.
Any thoughts on nature of the Kaka second yellow? Although him missing the final group game may not matter, I think the principle of the incident is a more important issue.
Aside from that, I have to say; so far, Dunga has this team looking very, very solid. Flashes of brilliance from the front three, coupled with a LOT of solidarity by excellent ball retention.
They had 3 significant but very different obstacles to overcome in this group; first, a side that would stick 5 at the back and play extremely narrowly – with the sole intention of stopping the opposition scoring rather than starting their own attacks. (Quality of opposition should not be a crucial factor, look at New Zealand/Italy) Secondly, an African side with bundles of athletic ability, pace and power throughout the team. Thirdly, a technically sound European team playing a variation on the 4-2-3-1 that has become so popular in the tournament.
2/3 of those hurdles have been cleared, and given that they pass the third with no hitches it should demonstrate Brazil can take a pragmatic approach tactically where teams like Spain (v Switzerland) and Italy (v New Zealand) have so far failed..
Well, Italy’s failings against an admittedly poor New Zealand team only came because Lippi achieved the tactical failure of the WC-just read ZM’s analysis of that game. Italy really should of breezed past New Zealand if it weren’t for the terrible decision of playing 2 strikers vs NZ’s three-man defense.
Great post, Ali Thomson. I agree with your second paragraph, and very strenuously so – ball handling and retention of the football are hallmarks of Brazil under Dunga and these were in vivid display in today’s match. I was never worried as the game went on, not because I downplayed the offensive ability of the Ivorian players, but because Brazil had the game under control.
I really think Ivory Coast should play Toure in a more advanced role or else they will struggle against North Korea aswell. Eboue and Tiote will never be able to dictate the midfield and pick out a killer pass.
This Brazil side is looking quite strong however I think they have their weaknesses. Upfront the trio is playing fine and they are all good players but none is good at putting pressure at the defense when Brazil doesnt have the ball. At midfield Gilberto and Melo has been good but against better midfields I can see them struggle. A lot of the bigger teams will be able to win the midfield battle against them and make sure Brazil will not see the most possesion. The way to attack Brazil however will be at their left back though. Bastos is not a left back and he will surely struggle at some point in this tournament. With Robinho unlikily to track back, Melo will be forced to support Bastos leaving Gilberto isolated in the middle. I can see Ronaldo playing to the right against Brazil. His presence there would force Brazil to have players playing out of position. Also Maicon seems vulnerable when crosses are coming from the Brazil left side.
there was a lot of space for IC to move the ball in brazil’s midfield. Unfortunately IC can’t make the crisp passes to unlock the D, but I could see a team like holland or spain run wild in the midfield holes, creating chances.
Also, that one touchline run by kaka is enough to get everyone praising him again, are all the pundits won over by his looks! His first assist was pure luck, second was decent, but he lost the ball all over the pitch tonight. Kaka has to be the most over rated player of the past year, bar none.
+1 on the Gervinho shout. I couldn’t believe his exclusion, likewise for when he was subbed off against Portugal and Dindane was left on the field.
Gervinho is about their only creative spark, Sven should be playing him in a wide area or just a little behind Drogba, but he persists with a man who has turned his career to Qatar instead of continuing a decent enough time in the Premier League.
I’m not overly surprised by Gervinho’s exclusion – what we saw tonight is that he’s a very good impact player to bring on to run at tired defences when chasing a game. Not sure he’d have the same effect if played from the start.
Dindane perhaps the more industrious of the two on the right wing, could help defensively more.
Your initial paragraph said it all, classic Brazil under Dunga. Of note, I would also add that Gilberto Silva looked more confortable with the ball on his feet, doing important vertical passes.
For the next match, I hope Dunga puts Nilmar on the squad, moving Robinho to Kaka’s role. Robinho played well in this position at Santos this year and during the final minutes against North Korea.
Nonetheless, it is ironic how Keita’s theatric performance to force Kaka out may come back to haunt Ivory Coast, as they will likely need Brazil to beat Portugal in order to advance.
I second the call to bring in Nilmar and move Robinho over. More promising than bringing in Baptista, to be sure.
A couple of visualisations from tonight’s game…
The Brazilians Gilberto, Melo, Juan & Lucio were the 4 top passers all with more than 90% completion rate, Gilberto and Melo’s passing in particular really eases the pressure from the Brazilian defence, preventing multiple waves of attacks by keeping the ball once they win it: http://bit.ly/cwJ7aY
Impressive finishing from both Fabiano and Drogba. Fabiano scoring from both of his two attempts on goal and Drogba scoring with his only attempt on target. All from open play, a delight to see given the performance of strikers so far in the tournament! http://bit.ly/cwJ7aY
Both images generated using the Total Football 2010 iPhone app (http://www.totalfootball2010.com) that Zonal Marking was kind enough to tweet about a couple of times, enjoy!
The pictures are most impressive. Melo (the sneaky choice for player of the tournament so far) and Gilberto are attempting a good number of long passes, and are almost as consistent with them as with short ones.
If we are so blessed to see a Chile – Brazil match I hope, ZM, that a match preview will be posted. The place to attack Brazil must be to attack the left-back, and Sanchez can wreak havoc against Bastos. Bielsa will try to win with attacking football. It will be fun.
This plan didn’t work so well at the Qualifiers, with Brazil winning 0-3 and 4-2 heavily exploiting the counter-attack. Bielsa will have to try something wacky because flat-out attacking football never seems to work against Dunga’s Brazil. It will be fun anyways.
Attacking football of any kind against this Brazil is suicide. The best bet is as seen through the qualifiers is using a defensive team with superior stamina with a good striker to score in a counter attack (Paraguay’s win 2-1 in the qualifiers, for example). If Brazil scores, though, it’s game over (see Uruguay 0 – 4 Brazil at the qualifiers and today’s match).
Similarly, I’m really excited to see Chile vs. Spain. It doesn’t have anything to do with the post here, I just felt like sharing that.
The tactics behind that game might be fun to think about but I think Spain are too talented for Chile.
Re: the Brazil / Chile 4-2 – the scorelines misleading really. Chile were causing Brazil all sorts of problems before getting sucker punched, twice. Got It back to 2-2 against 10 men for most of the 2nd half then, unusually for them, had a bit of an Identity crisis. Not quite sure whether to stick or twist. Maicon & Nilmar took It upon themselves to win the match anyway.
Suazo & Fernandez were excellent In tandem – apparently Suazo Is good to go for the Swiss game. Hoping they can turn It on again later today.
Hopefully this will shut up ‘Arry.
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2557/news/2010/06/18/1982360/tottenham-boss-harry-redknapp-brazil-are-over-rated-and
Probably not.
huh?????….”…he may have used his arm to control the ball….”…. that was clear hand! it seemed that the referee (who’s overall performance wasn’t great) asked him so he had the chance to admit….if he lied (could be that they talked about something else) the FIFA should step in and should take action….
Nevertheless Brazil’s win was deserved, but IC made it too easy … I dont think it was a good idea from Eriksson to start with Drogba when a draw is all what you need….
He surely asked him about something related to the handball (see referee’s gesticulation). However, he might have asked him, for example, if the handball was intentional, not if it occured at all. In this case it would be hard to prove Fabiano lying.
What actions, precisely?
Drogba surely has a psychological impact on the team. Apart from the fact that he is able to keep both opponent’s CBs busy, although rather not when not fully fit.
…if a FIFA review comes to the conclusion that it was “intended handball” the whole action has to be evaluated as a “heavy foul not recognized by the referee”. According to the rules it will not have an impact on the game’s result (the goal was a referee decision during the game and can’t be cancelled), but he relevant player (in this case Fabiano) can still be suspended for 2 – 3 games for the committed foul….
…just read an article in the German News that it looks like the FIFA take some action so he really might get suspended for a few games….
Great post ZM. Lol I remember in your last post your get mixed up with Ramires and Elano. In your last post about Brazil you mentioned something about Ramires when he wasn’t on the pitch and you’ve done it here again. Never mind. The brilliant post makes up for that mistake.
I couldn’t also believe Sven didn’t start with Gervinho and instead opted for DIndane which I though was because of Dindane’s work rate and to keep Bastos quiet maybe. Also Brazil at times are so clinical especially with Fabiano as they did barely nothing for the first 20 mins.
Well, has everybody seen the same Brazil vs. Ivory Coast match that I have seen tonight?! I think Ivory Coast should be given a break! They started the match by attacking and reaching the Brazilian goal, and Brazil figured out that it must press Ivory Coast in their own half of the pitch to control any threat they might cause for Julio Cesar. This was a gamble, as the physical nature of the game of Ivory Coast would have made it hard for Brazilian players to press for too long before exhaustion crept to their legs. Brazil needed a goal, and they needed it fast! They did score a goal, and no one can dispute its beauty! Technically and tactically, it was great. However, it was becoming clear that Brazilian players are becoming tired by the end of the first half, and Ivory Coast are only one goal down. They appeared fresher physically, they are well-endowed technically , and as the second half started, they started looking for a way back to the game. An ugly case of Fabiano using his arms to score the second goal in the start of the second half was only surpassed in ugliness by the referee. Standing in a perfect position to witness the whole shamble, surprisingly, he didn’t even turn a blind eye. He made a joke of it with Fabiano, and let the goal stand. Now, two goals down, Ivory Coast had a mountain to climb, and became demotivated. Brazil’s third goal and Ivory Coast’s goal came later in the game, when the whole nature of the game has already changed beyond redemption. Actually, the goal of Ivory Coast proves that they had the physical, technical and tactical ability to change the game if that, I repeat, UGLY refereeing decision has not been made. You might be amazed by my rather psychological approach to the game. When ZM commented on the France vs. Mexico game, he rightly pointed out that tactical dissection of the game is valid up to a point, beyond which it is a must to take into account the actual motivation and psyches of the players on the pitch. After all, football is a human game, not a mind game. Brazil are not God’s gift to football; they are an excellent football team, period. Like all other teams, it must win its games by merit, and may very will have done that tonight even without that scandal. A footballing genius, such as Maradona, hasn’t been let of the hook since 1986 for an incident much less scandalous than that; after all, the referee didn’t see Maradona’s hand goal. But, it’s truly disappointing to see such a degree of emasculation from most people, even supposedly neutral referees and Ivory Coast’s own manager, when Brazil commits such an offense.
Stéphane isn’t emasculated. He is just a very bad referee. See Denmark x Holland… he acted the same way.
The rest of your commment… well, are you sure we both watched the same game?
Sven Goran Eriksson, only heaping praises on Brazil after the match and choosing them to win the world cup, only making a shy comment about Fabiano’s handball (certainly , not football) goal! Shame! You’re there in South Africa to do your best to make your team win the world cup, not to act as a media pundit, choosing the team who, very clearly, cheated against your squad to win! For all you, Brazilian fans, out there, if you really love Brazil, don’t go easy on your team cheating to win the world cup; titles are meaningless if you don’t win them by your own merit.
Fabiano said he tried to control the ball with his shoulder but it unitentionally hit his arm, which is plausible. I don’t think the play was remotely comparable to Henry x Ireland or Maradona x England, for instance, so the “shame on cheating” comment do sound quite harsh, specially when a) the goal came after a brilliant play and didn’t interfere on the result; and b) Ivory Coast should have one or two players sent out but got away with it.
It was a well deserved win in a game with a very poor ref, hence the praises.
wow, wow, wow …. IMO a bad decision of a referee can’t be justified by other bad decisions…. and sorry, but a brilliant built up also can’t justify a foul or handball
… it is soccer, not synchronizing swimming 
….
…and what do you expect Fabiano to say? …. fact is that he admit that he used his arm and from here it is up to the referee to decide whether it was inteded or not!!!
Well, using his arm, not once, but twice, and then scoring a goal and celebrating it like hell! That’s one piece of football genius, and quite a nerve he’s got! Being a good player doesn’t qualify you to cheat, and others cheating also doesn’t qualify you to cheat! As I said in my original comment, what is really more sickening than the handball itself is the approach of the referee, Sven Goran Eriksson, the media and most of the comments on the internet regarding this incident. When Brazil cheats, downplay the cheat itself and highlight the brilliance of an otherwise spotless, magnificent Brazilian display. Brazil is a great team; I don’t need to always repeat this. But elevating it to the status of divinity does more harm than good, to Brazil itself and to the sport of football. And, also, a single refereeing mistake CAN render the tactical evaluation of a game hopelessly deficient, and CAN change the outcome of the tournament. Still, refereeing mistakes continue to be made; we ARE human, and we must accept that! But what happened was NOT a mistake! The referee SAW it! This is pure turning of a blind eye and simple emasculation when facing Brazil! Maybe if he was to referee a final with Brazil, he just wouldn’t start the game and simply would hand them the trophy!
he didn’t “use his arm twice”. The first touch was totally unintentional, he didn’t even look at the ball. Then, after a simply MAGICAL play by LF, he tries to kill it on his chest and indeed kills it with his arm. But no way this was a scandal like you’re trying to force.
and BTW, maybe the brazilian shirt does have a little more weight than the others. Tough luck for the others, all I have to say…
I think it’s worse to see a ref just allowing the africans to commit possible leg-breaking tackles just because they are sore losers. Elano had to go off the game and the ref didn’t even called the foul.
Well, I don’t want to change the subject! No one is saying that it’s all right to tackle illegally! Two wrongs don’t make a right, and granting that Fabiano goal is not to be corrected with allowing tackles by either side! But think, he may have lost control of the match once he took that deliberate decision and, thus, lost his neutrality in the eyes of the Ivory Coast players! And, also, he didn’t make it clear that he saw the illegal tackles the way he made fun of the handball with Fabiano! Regarding the issue of the weight of the Brazilian shirt, it might be wiser to bring it more honor with fair and elegant play, rather than use it as a tool to bring on cheats and dirty bits of cheap football! The last I heard, Fabiano IS a football player, and he WASN’T allowed to use his arms, regardless of the shirt he is wearing.
….”Elano had to go off the game and the ref didn’t even called the foul…”
..in this scenario IMO some credit should be given to the referee: if you look at the footage you can recognize that Elano’ foot was above! the ball, not behind and if he would have come a little bit later (he was jsut too fast) the IC player would have been the one who would have been carried from the field…. IMO it was a very tough challenge from both players each one risking the health of the other … it was just a question of timing who got hurt in this clash….if Elano would have tried to play the ball (foot behind the ball) nothing would have happend….
the foul at the end of the game (approx. 5 minutes to play?) with a straight leg was indeed a clear red card….
It is tough luck for others indeed, but it will likely be tough luck for Fabiano from here on out. He’ll be unlikely to get any benefit of the doubt from referees, even when he’s in the right.
“The first touch was totally unintentional, he didn’t even look at the ball.”
Even so, that is enough reason to invalidate that goal. Just look at the play.
The ref comments to Fabiano were problably related to the replay on the screen. I have no reason to believe he saw the handball live and chose to ignore it. I mean, if he was divinifying Brazil he would have shown the deserved red cards to Ivory Coast instead of sending Kaka out, right?
I do agree that it is disgusting when players go out of their way to fool the refs and get an illegal advantage, but I didn’t see Fabiano’s incident as anything remotely close to that.
For instance, looking at Maradona’s and Henry’s famous handballs, those were plays where they would not score without using the hand. They actively tried touching the ball. In Fabiano’s case, he looked like he could control the ball anyway and really just missed it with his shoulder.
Is it cheating to continue the play after you know you did an infraction? I tend not to think so (as it is not expected from players to call their own fouls), but I can see the other side.
You said that Fabiano “looked like” he could control the ball without using his arms; well, “looked like” isn’t good enough. The next thing you know, every player will claim that his illegal move was trivial and irrelevant, and that he could have controlled the ball legally, anyway. Laws are there to be followed by players willfully, otherwise, referees are there to punish those who break them. For the sake of discussion, let’s suppose that the referee-Fabiano talk was regarding the replay (and I still don’t believe so, as he was very, very near Fabiano when he made the handball), he should have made his best to lawfully disallow the goal. Now, because replays are still not allowed as a part of football refereeing, at the very least, the referee should have scolded and reprimanded Fabiano for the move, not to give him a smile and make a cheap joke out of it. This will give the wrong impression to other players that the referee is taking his duties in controlling the match lightly, and would pave the way for authority meltdown that we saw later.
You said that Fabiano “looked like” he could control the ball without using his arms; well, “looked like” isn’t good enough. The next thing you know, every player will claim that his illegal move was trivial and irrelevant, and that he could have controlled the ball legally, anyway. Laws are there to be followed by players willfully, otherwise, referees are there to punish those who break them. For the sake of discussion, let’s suppose that the referee-Fabiano talk was regarding the replay (and I still don’t believe so, as he was very, very near Fabiano when he made the handball), he should have made his best to lawfully disallow the goal. Now, because replays are still not allowed as a part of football refereeing, at the very least, the referee should have scolded and reprimanded Fabiano for the move, not to give him a smile and make a cheap joke out of it. This will give the wrong impression to other players that the referee is taking his duties in controlling the match lightly, and would pave the way for authority meltdown that we saw later. I want to see a world cup with a legally and morally worthy winner; that’s not too much to ask.
Sorry if I have mispoken, I didn’t mean to say that the touch was trivial, but rather to show that he did not have bad faith and therefore his declaration is quite pausible… why would you intend to use the arm in a scenario where using the shoulder would be as fine? His arm was exactly where it should be in a normal situation. You can’t say the same in Maradona’s or Henry’s plays, that was my point.
Sure, players must follow rules, but you can’t call “that’s cheating” in every foul where the fouler doesn’t imediately surrender himself for the ref. That would be absurd.
I agree that the ref smiling was totally unprofessional and reprimandable, but it doesn’t mean he purposedly overlooked the play.
Id kill to know what the referee said to Fabiano…
Besides, I actually doubt IC had what it gets to beat Brazil even if the second goal were called illegal anyway.
It’s the ref’s duty to call for the handball; but hell even the CIV players weren’t complaining much (from what i saw they were busying looking at each other, tired and shattered), so what do you expect from the poor French salesman?
Well, Lucas Bertu, I’m not convinced yet, but, anyhow, it was actually nice to have had that well-rounded, short debate with you.
Scorpio, I couldn’t agree with you more on the emasculation issue, both referee’s and general. Naturally, when emasculation is expressed most often involves the two powerhouses in FIFA over the last fifty years, that is Brazil and Germany. From the last WC still remember another classical example of referee (the Brazilian gentleman Carlos Simon) smiling in the act of sending off a sheepish Swede in the match against Germany.
Sven G Eriksson’s slime should not, by this time, surprise anyone.
I’ve just realized how many goals came from the right-sided midfielder. The hybrid role of carrilero and right-midfielder seem to surprise defenses (particularly left-backs) by the run-throughs coming from that side. I recall Elano scoring against Argentina at Emirates, the two goals in this WC and D. Alves in the Copa America final also against Argentina. During his years in the domestic league Elano’s never been a goalscorer, so his great perfomances in the Seleção surprise brazilians. I’ve come to the conclusion it’s part due to Dunga’s instructions.
Elano has always been a fine player. He may not be a tricky, dribbling midfielder or a natural goalscorer, but he is a very very smart player, who knows his time to go inside the box just as he knows when he needs to cover for Maicon.
the problem is that brazilians are in general very weird about some stuff. When a player is in brazilian football, he needs to go to Europe to “learn about tactics” and become a “Seleção” player. So when he is there, people complain about the lack of brazilian-based players on the squad. Go figure…
I am a huge Drogba fan but I think IC was more dangerous during the first 70 minutes against Portugal than in the 110 with him on the pitch. He’s just not in condition to play.
with him IC pushed much more than North Korea did and that gave Brazil exactely the room they needed and used for the goals!…. without him IC could have sit deeper closing the room more efficiently (like N.Korea did)…
…any draw would have get IC in a very good position to reach the next round and I expected Eriksson to play it save…. I can’t understand that he finally decided for the more risky option …. might have something to do with Drogba’s influence / ego….
Interesting that Brazil played a lopsided formation just like Cameroon did yesterday… However, Cameroon got punished for it and Brazil didn’t…. Surely this is due to the 2 holding midfielders, Silva + Melo, that they posses?
“sides generally aren’t able to press high enough up the pitch to shut down Gilberto and Melo, and both are very assured on the ball,”
I’m happy that Melo’s good twin brother at least looks like he cares when playing for the Selecao… His evil twin-brother doesn’t seem to do that for us back in Torino… Ooh well…
Gilberto/Felipe Melo are galaxies ahead of Song/Enoh. And the simple fact that Robinho plays close to the opposition right-back is trouble, unlike Eto’o, who was more central.
Other thing: Juan is a monster. A quiet, non-violent, low profile monster in the back.
oh, made me laugh about the “twin brothers” hahahaha
Use Jose Morinho side to defeat brazil.
A Jose Mourinho side (by that I think you’re especially implying the kind of football that beat Barcelona) would certainly frustrate anyone, including Brazil, but Brazil to international soccer are not Barcelona to club soccer. In fact there are certain similarities in Dunga’s Brazil and Mourinho’s clubs.
Ivory Coast had a decent game within their purpose, right until Fabiano’s goal.
Actually, every team that plays against Brazil “have a decent game until a goal is conceded”. Every single team.
I’m really glad with today’s performance: great tactics, great plays, great defense, great attack, great everything. And there were still time for dribbles, tricks, one-touch passes, fights and stuff. Great entertainment all-around tonight.
About IC, I think too that Gervinho should’ve started the match, instead of Dindane, who did absolutely nothing. Other than that, Eriksson did what was right, the rest is up to players.
About Kaká’s sending off, it was a combination of factors: ivorians’ violence, Keita’s great actor performance, referee’s arrogance and Kaká’s ingenuity. Bad luck for us.
I’m really excited to see what Dunga will set for the game against Portugal. I think he will bring Julio Baptista up (the resonable thing to do), but i would like to see Nilmar playing alongside Robinho and LF. Maybe the best trio of forwards in the WC.
I agree with the “every team plays well till the 1st goal” bit. So true!
Kaká: he was sent off not because of his ingenuity. Ingenuity is a false cognate for us Portuguese speakers, and in English means something smart, intelligent. The word here should be naiveness (ingenuidade/ingênuo = naiveness/naive and genialidade/gênio = ingenuity/genious).
I don’t think we will see Nilmar starting against Portugal, as it’d require Robinho to play slightly farther from the goal. Baptista is the one that would change the team’s shape the least.
Robinho seems resolute on making a big impresion this Cup and tries to handle most situations all by himself. He often dribbles rather than tries some passes, so putting him as a creative player is possible – and he sure has the skills needed -, but not the best decision Dunga could make.
Wow, Zonal_Marking, I know that your bet is on Brazil for winning the World Cup and rightfully so. They are the most solid team. Not even Argentina, Netherlands or Italy can stop them. (What a disappointing game by Italy, by the way)
However, this:
“Although it was a solo goal (and he may have used his arm to control the ball) it was again notable that the Kaka-Robinho-Fabiano triangle ended up on the right-hand side of the box when the goal went in.”
Is totally wrong. He did use his arm to control the ball (not “maybe” but “definitely”… but not only that, there was also a deliberate hand before that… that goal have been invalid, period. See video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H409aCV8fWo
Any way, I do see Brazil winning the World Cup… they seem to have that team spirit and that solidness that characterizes the winning teams from the others. Not to mention, once again, that I don’t think that any of the other teams can defeat them. What do you think? Is there a team that can defeat Brazil? Any particular strategy that may work against them?
Also of note: Paraguay won today, and with that, the South American teams are doing a great performance in this world cup. In 9 games played by CONMEBOL teams: 7 victories and 2 ties. Seems that this Cup is not for Europe at all.
“Is there a team that can defeat Brazil? Any particular strategy that may work against them?”
The best strategy to beat Brazil, as discussed by ZM, would be to avoid Melo/Gilberto on the middle and Elano/Maicon on the right. The weak spot would be the left side. Michel Bastos is a midfielder first and a fullback second and his defensive game is somewhat lacking. Robinho and Kaká won’t chase anyone back on the left side either.
Other weak spot is when the team is matched against mostly defensive sides. Those matches usually end in draws as Melo/Gilberto can’t create many opportunities (as they would be the ones with the most possession in such situations).
I believe Argentina could populate their right side with quality players and score one goal or two exploring Bastos’ vulnerability. But then their defenses should improve. A simple instruction to Melo cover Bastos would be enough to counter that anyway.
Switzerland and other defensive teams could try and carry the game onto a penalty strike-out… But then again we are talking about world-class tactics, so the short answer is no, no other team could beat Brazil legitimately XD
I agree with the general thrust of the above post but Robinho has actually worked his backside off so far, really impressive. That includes working hard to win the ball back.
But when Kaká dropped to collect and carry, Robinho drifted high and infield. http://defensivemidfielder.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/brazils-left-sided-problem/
It’d be out of character, but Dunga could tweak things against Portugal. Ramires for Elano, Dani Alves utilised in the central role he plays as sub. Then, Robinho at the point, Melo covering the left-side (aided in part by Robinho), and Alves on the right of a diamond. Silva at the base could guard Meireles’s bursts.
Whatever happens, Coentrão vs Maicon should be fun.
Sure, that’s probably correct but Brazil also takes more care against stronger sides. There is absolutely no chance that in a game against Argentina Messi, Tevez or Jonás would be left one-on-one against Bastos (or if Bastos keep playing this bad, that he would be in the team much longer)…
one question: why 4-2-3-1 is good for brazil but is a disaster for Spain?
Much better charging fullbacks, defensive midfielders commited to defending and better individual performances upfront, at least so far.
Spain just lost 1 game against a very clever Swiss side, so why you call it a disaster? … let them win the next 2 games …..
…beside this they play a different more “Barcelona” style and don’t rely so much on counter attack like Brazil……
no it is a disaster. They are not adaptive, could not exploit the out of shape Swiss defense
oh cmon, they had like million chances to score, but the forwards were awful.
i just havent seen this so called counter attack in this wc kaka is slow
in an attacking sense:
when the “3″ on 4-2-3-1 systems play as crappy as the spanish’s “3″ did, it’s hard to get anything from the game. That day was awful for Iniesta and Silva, and (in a positive look) not good for Xavi. Their bad performance also didn’t help Villa at all.
But today, Elano was simply fantastic, Kaká didn’t played to his full potencial and still managed two assists and Robinho participated in a lot of attacking plays. This way, things are all good for Luis Fabiano, a striker even not as good as Villa, individually.
Spain is very different from Brazil. The first thing is that this is not the Spain who win the Eurocup with Luis Aragones. Spain08 played with a 4-1-3-2 with an incredible Marcos Senna as defensive midfielder and three iberian players (Xavi, Silva, Iniesta) plus Fernando Torres and Villa. That team didn’t retainned possession as this one. They normally deffended near his goal, with all the lines together and they make incredible transitions with vertical passes from Xavi or Iniesta to Torres or Villa. As Spain had no wings, the left/right defenders of the other team had no one to take care so they normally lose their positions and Torres and Villa did an incredible work by occupying the wings and taking the back to the defenders.
When Spain was winning, then, was when they retainned the ball to “defend with the ball”. But not before. If you watch Eurocup Spain goals, nearly everyone came from a counter attack.
This Spain is different. Transitions are not so vertical, the team plays to have the ball and not to score goals and they don’t deffend so well so normally the one who starts the attack is Puyol or Piqué and when this happen, the other team has 10 players behind the ball.
Good shout Beltrán.
Aragonés is an excellent coach who has built sides who mastered the counter-attack.
I like Del Bosque, but I’d rather have Aragonés for crucial games.
I found out who ZM is! Its……….Johnathon Wilson!
Do you think Robinho has had a different role than he was given in qualifying and if so why? He seems to be deeper and cut in more than I remember from the Confederations Cup and what you implied in writeups before the tournament started.
The loss of Elano could be a bigger problem than you’ve started here, in my opinion. Elano offers a good alternative to Kaka as a creator alongside Robinho, without altering the nature of the team tactics (as Brazil will need to with Baptista).
And, while it may be coincidental, the late goals (attributed to drop in concentration levels) have come when Elano has been subbed in the past two games for Dani Alves – Brazil’s most talented sub, but a player less suited to the central covering RM that Elano does so well.
I think it’s interesting to see how good Felipe Melo can be for Brazil, yet he’s regularly awful for Juventus. And not just because the team around him underperforms, but making individual mistakes and being tactically naive. Strange how he can transform himself, once he is given a clear role in the team.
I thought that Brazil were fantastic last night. They always look in control, and the way that they stifle the opposition is very impressive to watch. It would be interesting to see how Argentina’s or Spain’s attackers fair against the seemingly impenetrable Brazilian defensive block.
Chilean player Maldonado said after Brazil 4-2 Chile that “it’s tough to play against Brazil, just after you have thouhgt ‘Geez, how great we are playing, ahn?’ they manage to score out of nowhere!”
Brazil gets better all the time. I was wrong to have doubted Dunga, or disagree with you earlier on the other posts. You’re right, how else to play against Brazil if not from the defence. Cheers ZM, great job!
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