Lyon 0-3 Bayern: Lyon disjointed, Bayern take advantage
A resounding victory for Bayern, a disappointing end to France’s exciting adventures in European football this season, and an underwhelming display from Lyon in their first European semi-final.
Lyon started with a 4-2-3-1 formation, with three out-and-out attacking players lining up behind Lisandro Lopez. Sidney Govou was recalled in place of Ederson, whilst Jean-Alain Boumsong replaced Jeremy Toulalan, a centre-back in the first leg, at the back.
Bayern’s shape was the formation they’ve played in 90% of their games so far this season. Franck Ribery was suspended, so Hamit Altintop replaced him on the left. Martin Demichelis was fit enough only for the bench, so Holger Badstuber came in, with Diego Contento staying at left-back.
Lyon’s front four was fluid and interchangeable – their wingers always swap, but today sometimes Cesar Delgado popped up on the right, sometimes Lopez would come to the left. The general rule seemed to be (much like at Valencia) that the front four were entitled to switch as they liked, as long as the two players that ended up in wide areas defended in that zone when Lyon lost the ball.
In truth, they didn’t need to do that much defensively – Bayern’s full-backs stayed at home, and until the sending-off in the second half, rarely looked to link up with the front players – it was generally four Bayern players attacking against six Lyon defensive players.
The one exception to this rule was on Lyon’s left, where Arjen Robben was a constant threat against Aly Cissokho, and the French left-back needed assistance from another player, considering Lyon’s two centre-backs were concerned with two Bayern strikers. With that in mind, it may have been an idea to tell Michel Bastos to remain on the left to double up against the Dutchman, for Bastos is excellent defensively (he plays left-back for Brazil) and made some crucial interventions when he found himself in defensive positions.
Lyon’s problem was that there was a huge gap between their front four and the rest of the side. There was no ‘link’ player – no Kim Kallstrom or Miralem Pjanic – and the distribution from their two holding players was generally very poor. They simultaneously were too attacking and too defensive. Too attacking because they had four players high up the pitch looking to create something themselves rather combining to open up Bayern; too defensive because they played with two holding midfielders against a side who rarely (if ever) looked to break through the centre.
That said, they were an occasional threat when they got possession in the final third. And it was almost always in the same fashion – switching the ball from flank to flank with a ball to a player unmarked at the far post. Bastos missed a glorious chance in this situation, Delgado overhit a pass when Govou could have been in, and later on Dalgado himself and Bafetimbi Gomis had opportunities in this manner.
This situation largely seemed to arise because Bayern’s full-backs come so high up the pitch to meet the opposition winger – Robben and Ribery (or Altintop today) don’t do much defensively, and so Lahm or Contento get drawn up the pitch to the ball, the other three defenders shuffle across to cover, and the far side becomes exposed.
Bayern played well and won the game easily without doing anything exciting tactically. Thomas Muller was, as ever, key to their system defensively, constantly harassing Lyon’s central midfielders when they got the ball, with Ivica Olic getting through his usual amount of running upfront. Many have questioned how Bayern can afford to play two out-and-out wingers in a 4-4-2 system – the reason is that part of their running has been outsourced to the forward, and their sheer attacking threat in wide areas subdues the opposition full-backs sufficiently.
Bayern also got the ball to their wingers in space. Robben was a threat but Altintop also had an excellent game in an unfamiliar role. As previously remarked on this site, the fact that Bayern play wingers in a 4-4-2 rather than a 4-3-3 means they pick the ball up in a deeper position than, say, Pato and Ronaldinho at Milan. Therefore, they can pick up speed before running at defenders. When a 4-4-2 plays a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, the wide players in the 4-4-2 are so vital (as Stuttgart showed when they outplayed Barcelona earlier in the competition), and Robben and Altintop were excellent tonight.
Stupid sending-offs in both legs cost Lyon their chance, but overall they were dreadful. Bayern’s defence is relatively weak, and to not score against them in 180 minutes is a severe failing – Manchester United and Fiorentina managed it four times each in their respective ties – and they too, were both down to ten men for part of their respective ties. Indeed, that has been a feature of Bayern’s three knockout ties – the opposition getting players dismissed. Perhaps this is no surprise when they are captained by a man as cynical as Mark van Bommel. No player in the modern game has such a reliance upon the concept of free-kicks – conceding them in ‘professional” fashion to prevent counter-attacks, winning them by running into players and getting them booked, shackling them for the rest of the game.
Bayern march onto the final when they will be second favourites – surely the key to getting at them is to put pressure on their backline from the outset. Lyon never did that in 180 minutes, and were deservedly beaten.
Lyon 0-3 Bayern: Lyon disjointed, Bayern take advantage




100% agree with the comments about Bayern, van Brommel and free kicks. Bayern seem to try much harder than other teams to get opponents booked. They are excellent at exaggerating fouls and constantly put a lot of pressure on referees. I liked this team before but after watching their on pitch drama I can safely say they are the side I favor the least in Europe.
Hope they get truly exposed in the final as they’ve relied heavily on luck in the champions league (aside from Lyon) and don’t deserve a place in the final.
Couldn’t agree any more strongly
Indeed. Even the Lyon tie was ‘lucky’, in the mere sense that they were lucky to draw Lyon!
but they got all the toughest teams prior to Lyon. So they must have a point to prove, dont you think?
I wouldn’t have had Fiorentina as one of the toughest teams, considering Bayern were going to be drawn against one of the group winners. Indeed, Arjen Robben said before the game that it was the ‘easiest’ draw they could have got.
what are you guys talking about? lyon never had the slightest chance, even in the first leg in the time when they were 11 against 10 they had not 1 chance of scoring.
Typical Germans, amirite? haha.
Absolutely. A hateful type of player. But unfortunately effective. He seems limited as a ‘footballing’ player but his ‘gamesmanship’ does wonders for Bayern.
Was he always like this or is it the influence of Van Gaal?
He was always like this. If you can still recall the Holland-Portugal match of 2006, in the World Cup (the one with 4 red cards), he tried to do it two or three times to portuguese players. Unfortunately for him he tried to do it to Figo, whose gamesmanship had been much better honed by his experience..
Robben videos at this match. All him touches.
That last comment put me off a bit I get the feeling you still can’t really forgive Bayern for stealing the game against Fiorentina. Which I can understand but to put the blame on Bayern for all those sending offs seems rather harsh. Mark van Bommel is perfectly analyzed as a cynical player but I can’t really say that I have seen similar in other Bayern players.
Not at all – it’s a major part of van Bommel’s game. The number of times he gets away with fouls is almost as incredible as the frequency with which he gets opposition players booked.
And it’s not just him – Fiorentina would not have had a man sent-off for no more than a bodycheck had Arjen Robben not exaggerated the contact by holding his face and rolling on the floor. Rafael’s second booking was certainly a cautionable offence, but it was notable that Ribery immediately ‘waved’ an imaginary card and the referee was quickly surrounded by five Bayern players demanding a red.
They’re certainly not the only ones who do it, of course. But when opposition red cards have played such a big part in their progress (they’ve scored five goals in three ties when the opposition have been down to ten men) it’s only fair to comment on it – after all, it is a tactic.
I mostly agree with you, but I don’t think, that Robben exaggerated in that specific situation at all. Gobbi doesn’t simply bodycheck him, he puts out his elbow and hits Robben in the throat. To me one of the clearest of all red cards in this CL season.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sY82tSNRg8&feature=related starts at min 5)
Don’t you think, that those cards are also provoked by the style Bayern is playing this season? I mean they play almost barcelonesque with all their possession and accurate passing (in the end they aren’t comparable, of course). Are there any statistics that can show how many cards Barcelona’s opposition had to take?
I disagree entirely! But discussing past refereeing decisions is boring, so let’s leave it there
Yeah, it’s a fair point you make about their style resulting in more fouls…a bookings for team A v passes completed for team B would be an interesting graph.
I think even more interesting would be to add some element of dribbles instead of simply passing. Frequently the opposition cannot really come close to the Barcelona players when they are exchanging balls. It’s usually when they decide to take on the opponents that they may be heavily fouled. It would be interesting to see, in that respect, a graph showing the number of cards extracted by a player (due to fouls on him) vs the minutes played in the Champions League (or other competitions) and then comparing this graph for specific players. For example: van Bommel, Messi, Ronaldo, Ribéry, Robben, Xavi, Iniesta, Schweinsteiger, Cambiasso, Sneijder, etc. Then tou could probably better see if the cards are related to passing (more cards extracted by Xavi, Schweinsteiger, Cambiasso, etc) or running (Robben, Ronaldo, Ribéry, Messi).
I agree with ZM on the red card. Gobbi did place his elbow up to stop Robben, but that it went to his throat was entirely incidental. In any case Robben did his part by rolling as if hit by a bullet. This is, as ZM mentioned I already proposed several times, a tactic in the modern game. As much a part of it as playing an offside trap or any other technique that is on the edge of the game rules.
Bayern was down to 10 men when Ribery was sent of in the 1st leg against Lyon and they still controlled Lyon….. Bayern respectively van Gaal had some problems at the beginning when he started his new job, but now they play an excellent football….
…you can call it luck that their bumpy start into the new season didn’t have any consequences and that they didn’t have to play Manu (or other big teams) earlier, but it should be beyond dispute that they reached now a level that will give them any chances for the final….
I actually expect them to win the final. Inter can’t just do a defensive job on them, like they have so far, to both Barcelona and Chelsea, to get into the final.
They’ll have to play more offensively, to try and expose Bayern’s big weakness (their defence) but that will open them up. Inter’s defenders hate pace and movement and this Bayern side has that in abundance with Muller and Robben. Ribery missing could actually be a blessing in disguise.
I agree with everything in this article. Lyon were terrible over the two legs and Delgado was awful today.
Zonal Marking, any chance that a tactical preview for tomorrow’s game comes out today?
Will hopefully be on the site at 13:00 UK time tomorrow – want to give this article ‘top billing’ for a while.
What a strange decision by Puel to go with 2 DMs, as you say Bayern are a threat from the flanks, not so much through the middle. Very odd that they played so defensively in the away game in Germany, even with an extra man for some time, and yet went with 4 out and out attacking players tonight, knowing an away goal for Bayern would put them in deep trouble.
Can you shed any light on what Puel might have been thinking with his selections, because he seems to have got everything hopelessly wrong?
I can only speculate that the threat of Robben and Ribery (who obviously didn’t feature) is mainly from the cutting in. Robben cutting in puts him directly in contention with one of 2 DM’s, so in a way you are double marking Robben (and to a lesser extent Altintop) by default.
I also found the decision to leave Pjanic and Kallstrom out baffling. With Toulalan suspended, there seemed to be no one in the Lyon midfield who could keep the ball circulating, and control the pace and direction of Lyon’s attacking moves (in the way, for example, that Schweinsteiger did for Bayern). They seemed to always rely on direct, long passes to the forward four players. This played to the strength of Bayern’s defenders who, although sometimes positionally suspect, are solid in one-on-one battles.
From a tactical point of view having van Gaal go up against either Mourinho or his old club Barca should be interesting
The pupil and the master, Van Gaal against his former assistant, Mourinho. Could be a tactical classic.
Astute observation on Van Bommel. Cynical indeed…
This Lyon team should really hang their heads in shame. This is the SEMI-FINAL of the biggest tournament your team will freakin play. What the heck is wrong with you when you show more desire/hustle/determination in the knock-out round against Real Madrid than you do in the semi-final?
I really think that this was due simply to Lyon just being happy to be there. It takes a lot of effort and confidence to actually put yourself on the line. Lyon seemed to have a ready excuse, being that they had accomplished something just by being there. This excuse i think was the reason that they performance was so pathetic in both games.
And Lyon did rely on luck but so did Lyon. Lyon really was out played when they matched up against Real Madrid. Madrid had some horrible luck and really should have been up 3 or 4 to 0 after the first half in Madrid. Then against Bordoeax they got a lucky penalty in the 2nd half of the first leg, putting them up 3-1 instead of 2-1. Without that penalty they would have been kicked out after the 0-1 loss in the second leg.
Thats a good point…
…and on top of reaching the Semi’s for the first time, I think they finally came up against a side that wasn’t going to allow them to just sit back and counter since Bayern rarely commit too many players forward. Bayern just beat them at their own game and Lyon didn’t have a Plan B
> No player in the modern game has such a reliance upon the concept of free-kicks – conceding
> them in ‘professional” fashion to prevent counter-attacks, winning them by running into
> players and getting them booked, shackling them for the rest of the game.
No doubt van Bommel provoked the foul (and the yellow card), but he didn’t simply run into the Lyon player. Van Bommel left it up to the Lyon player to let him pass or stop him … and the Lyon player clearly bodychecked him with a yellow card the logical result.
“But he didn’t simply run into the Lyon player”
Oooh he did.
Van Bommel made no effort to go around the player and thats because its his goal to get under everyone’s skin… An honest player attempts to go by the player and continues playing, i.e. Xavi
Come on guys, stop with this van Bommel-bashing, it’s ridiculous! He might not be everyone’s favourite player, as his aggressive style of play is, admittedly, not always a pleasure to watch – and at times perhaps a bit provocative. That’s OK, tastes differ. But van Bommel is neither the nasty type of player, as he is constantly depicted in the German media, nor is the unfair “diver” who seeks to get an undeserved booking for his opponents as some of you here argue. He might have been like this in the past, but has changed a lot in the meantime. Instead he finally has become a great tactician, who can perfectly read a match and seems to always know what to do. Sometimes his measures are still rather unpopular, yet, since van Gaal’s arrival in Munich, they haven’t been unsportsmanlike.
“But he didn’t simply run into the Lyon player”
Oooh he did.
Perhaps Puel was paradoxically attempting to nullify the effect of Bayern’s wingers in going with the 2 DMs in the middle — Robben and Ribery play inside-out and are most effective cutting inside and unleashing their excellent long range shots. This is how Chelsea controlled Barca’s wingers last year. One then tries to run behind the wingers in the counter. Ultimately Lyon did not get enough of a threat from their wings to put Bayern on their heels, which was probably the plan.
I can’t help but think Bayern are very fortunate be in the final…
They only got out of the group stage with a big win on the last matchday…
Survived Fiorentina with an absurd no call on Klose’s offside goal + La Viola going down to 10 men + Robben thunderbolt…
Could have been 2 or 3 behind 20 minutes into the 1st leg against Man U + stole a goal right before halftime + Gary Neville’s idiotic handball and Ribery’s free kick going through the wall + going down 3-0 away to Man U before Rafael’s red + Robben wonderstrike…
Facing 55 minutes being down a man at home + Toulalon’s red + typical Robben goal + early goal from Olic + ridiculous 2nd yellow for Cris…
They deserve to be in the final after making Lyon look toothless, but it seems like they’ve been living on the edge for the whole ride…
Don’t forget that Gilardino was also offside before he assisted Jovetic 2-0 goal in the second Florentina – Bayern leg.
You can’t call it “fortunate to be in the final” by going down 1-0 away to Juve, 2-0, 3-1 away to Florentina, 1-0 in the first minute to ManUtd, going down 3-0 away to Man U, facing 55 minutes being down a man at home against Lyonnais.
And they were never ever “living on the edge for the whole ride”. You just have to watch the last 15 minutes of every 2nd leg (and the Juve match) again and you will see that it was not only Lyonnais who eventually looked toothless.
But Bayern still have to thank Bordeaux every day for not losing against Juventus in the group stage.
By the way, by playing the first leg at home all the time, Bayern hadn’t even had luck with the draw.
not to mention that all the winning goals were practially Robben wonder goals. Though I think Lyon were really, really unfortunate to go down to 10 men in both games, they seem to lack the work rate and the strength to hold the ball up in the oppositions end.
This year in the competition should of raised more then enough arguments to install a degree of technological interference in referee decisions. When the level and speed of the game has increased so much over the past year, we can’t blame the referee for making the bad calls, only the FA for refusing to move forward. Referess are only human. But i digress
Good point about Bayern not having luck with the draw by having to play away in the second leg each time. Besides, are United easier opposition than Barcelona? Both were finalists last year.
And that red card against Fiorentina was also completely justified. It’s an elbow, not a bodycheck. Robben exaggerated just as Ribery did with Rafael, but that doesn’t change the fact that both were justified cards.
All this “Bayern were lucky” stuff is ironic when we’re all lauding Mourinho’s brilliance and not talking about the many refereeing decisions they’ve had favouring them, against both Chelsea (Drogba was being manhandled in the box repeatedly) and Barcelona (too many to list).
At the end of the day, both Bayern and Inter deserve to be in the final because they’re there.
Playing away from home in the second leg is not remotely a disadvantage.
I noticed Bayern rarely went through the middle, like you said in your analysis.
But is using 2 defensive midfielders playing too defensively? The reason Bayern attacked mainly via their wingers was to avoid these 2 players.
If Lyon only had 1 DM then we’d be accusing them of not protecting their back 4 enough. Maybe they thought they had a better chance of conceding the wide areas? Maybe a creative player like Schweinsteiger couldn’t be allowed too much space? If that happened I dare say the scoreline would have been much higher.
I don’t aggree that Bayern provokes fouls more than other teams….. it is just a question of ball possesion: statistically players of the team with more ball possesion will always be more fouled….ball possesion is one of the keys in van Gaal’s game…..and they have the players like Robben and Ribery who become very dangerous if you don’t stop them …and sometimes it is only possible with fouls…
I think we should give Van Gaal more credit for finding a system that brings the best out of his most dangerous players. He has transformed Schweinsteiger by using him as a deep lying playmaker. Ever since the Juventus game, I have seen all teams struggle to deal with Bayern’s wingers. Refereeing decisions will always play a role in knockout tournaments but its not the reason that they have made it this far. They are a well coached team, the right combination of workhorses and flair players.
Even Demechellis looks like a decent centerback this season. I never thought I would say that.
…I wouldn’t say he transformed Schweinsteiger …. van Gaal was the first who recognized that this is the ideal position for him and now Schweinsteiger’s performance matches his talent (which was wasted on the wings)…
…BTW: all remaining teams (Bayern, Barca, Inter) have trainers who have a lot in common (think about the time they spent in Barcelona!)…so I don’t think that they success is coincident….
I really enjoy watching him in that role, he’s got a bit of an iniesta role: always holding up the ball and passing, with his technique assuring he’ll never lose it. Plus really good vision of course. And it is a sort of breath of fresh air, as I’m really tired of teams lining up with 2 DMs who only know tackling in the center..
Actually, initially in his Bayern career he was playing in the middle (ie, when Sebastian Deisler was the owner of the right flank and Zé Roberto of the left one). Still, his position was usually more advanced then this one, he played at the time more as an advanced playmaker, which he’s not totally suited for since he does not have an individual skill that allows him to play extremely fast in small spaces. For his vision and technique level, the move to his current position was indeed the ideal.
Surely Lyon can have no complaints about Bayern’s liberal interpretation of sportsmanship. Lyon themselves are probably the dirtiest team in Europe.
No fullback is going to rush forward when someone quick and skilful plays outwide..that is why I was surprised that Henry didn’t start out left against Inter in the first leg. Maicon wouldn’t have come into box to score the goal. And if you notice there is a sort of a diamond in the center.. schweinst’er, Robben, Muller and Altintop- this is what makes them dangerous..Wonder why teams with attacking fullbacks don’t play this..
I haven’t seen many full Bayern games unfortunately this season, but even a read of the results and a look at the order of goals scored would suggest to me that they’ve very much made their own luck, primarily by having confidence in the way their coach’s tactics, much in the same way that many people think Liverpool in previous seasons are a poorer team than their European record suggests, because Rafael Benitez (another generally astute tactician, like Van Gaal) seems so at home in a two-legged continental duel.
Regardless of the bogey Toulalan and Cris decisions, Lyon were pasted by Bayern, and Lyon barely had a decent chance in two games.
The Rafael/Neville decisions weren’t “lucky”, they were entirely of United’s own making. And why? because despite conceding after 2 minutes in the first leg against a United team vying for a third consecutive Champions League final, they refused to panic and continued to play their own game.
Despite going three-nil down, away to said team in the second leg they still played their own game and eventually Robben’s (entirely intentional) wonderstrike sealed it for them, after which they didn’t need to spend the final 15 minutes trying to break down 10-man United.
Not to mention that they overcame a shaky start to the tournament by going to Juventus and winning on the last day of the group 4-1 in Turin, I’m not sure if they came from behind or not in that one at the moment.
Aside from that they have a striker who cannot stop scoring big goals at the moment despite not being particularly fashionable (Olic), a fit Arjen Robben and a devious midfield general in Van Bommel, playing his best since Hiddink’s PSV team went out at this stage in 2004/2005. All this without mentioning Ribery, who the press seem to have a horn for because they realise he can still move to Chelsea/United/Real/Barca unlike Robben.
In summation, its unfair to say that Bayern are making it through on luck, they had some, but so have every team. Lyon had Higuain missing an open goal and a previously rigid Liverpool team stuck on last-minute concede mode in the group stage. Last year Barcelona (obviously the best team in the tournament) needed the help of some poor officiating and even worse finishing from Chelsea in the second leg. Luck is part of sport, Bayern have ridden theirs on occasion but no more than any other team has. They have played with the conviction in their tactics generated by a faith in their extremely successful and tactically adept coach.
Great website by the way.
Ian, I applaud you. Perfect sum up. Honestly I can’t stand the constant whining about Bayern’s luck or van Bommel’s cynicism. It’s ridiculous. Your hint at Barca’s last year’s semi-final makes a formidable point. I can’t help but notice Mourinhos’s pictures at the top of this website – please name a more cynical coach than him…
By the way, if you want to interpret Bayern’s game in a fair manner you also need to mention their youngsters who all played for their amateur team some 11 months ago. Badstuber as centre back was outstanding yesterday. Mueller’s work rate is comparable to Olic’s. Contento played a decent left back – he is only 19 years old and fully rose to the occasion. All in all you need to respect Bayern’s performance although they eliminated ManUtd.
By the way, despite your biased perspective on Bayern you’re doing a fantastic job with this site. Thanks.
Van Bommel gets a lot of heat but I was impressed by him last night. He just closed the midfield for Lyon forcing them to the wings. He did that with minimal fuss.
Lyon looked like they never gonna score. They reminded me of Arsenal due the lack of height and strength upfront. Those close ups with Lisandro and van Buyten reminded me of Arshavin vs Terry.
Apart from Delgado who was awful I think that Lyon 2 midfield players were even worse, they were continually caught too high on the pitch or just too deep, like ZM said.
And I don’t know why its so much fuss about Lioris, he fluffed the high crosses, got down too quick on Olic’s 1st 2 goals. He does well against long shots but that’s about it, am I wrong?
ZM: Before anything, congratulations on the comment and link by Jonathan Wilson. It’s something special when the best writer about tactics around pays such a nice compliment on you.
I would love to have seen some credit given to Olic. Whatever the credit to Robben for two wonder goals in previous ties, Olic was them man who almost single handedly kept them in the tie against Man Utd by scoring the winner in Munich and then scoring that goal just before half time in Manchester. Sending off or not, I sincerely doubt Bayern would have come back if not for that goal on that moment.
Yesterday it’s also important to see that his first goal changed everything. Before that, Lyon were playing with patience, expecting the Bayern defence to break down at some point. And his second goal was a fantastic run by him. If you see the replay, he points to Altintop where he wants the ball.
Tactically, Lyon made a mistake of playing with Delgado on the middle and not to go with Kallstrom in a more deep-lying playmaker role. Had Delgado been out (or simply on the wing, where he seemed to be all the time) and Pjanic started the match, van Bommel and Schweinsteiger would have had plenty more problems to go forward. On the other hand, if Lyon do not place their defensive midfielders wider on the wings to support the full-backs, then there is no point in having two of them. It would have been smarter to place a second striker to force the centre-backs to mistakes (and Gomis gives a remarkable physical presence in the box).
Summarising, Lyon should (IMO, of course) have played with Pjanic instead of Govou (with Delgado on the wing and Pjanic taking the advanced playmaker role) and with Kallstrom in the place of Makoun. Alternatively, Makoun would be omitted for Gomis, who would play more fixed between the defence with Lisandro with more license to roam.
lol you are so funny…luck, lucky, just luck, they don’t deserve it, blablabla, fiorentina, referees etc etc
what was so lucky about their matches against Fiorentina? Fiora’s goal in Munich(their only chance and it wasn’t really a chance)? Their pathetic bunker defense? Gilardino’s offside goal in Firenze? Playing not-fully fit Van Buyten against Jovetic and Gilardino? Playing with 17-years-old Alaba as a LB? yes yes yes I know – Klose’s goal in Munich. and this is the reason it was lucky? so if Klose had scored his great chance a couple of minutes earlier or Robben just before the goal it would also be lucky?
Outplaying ManU in 3 HTs out of 4 is lucky? playing first leg without two best players – Robben and Schweinsteiger? lol of course everything is just luck…inter was lucky too: their win against Kyev (goals in 86′, 90′), even the CSKA tie was ‘lucky’, in the mere sense that they were lucky to draw CSKA! (what a great logic btw), they were lucky to win in London because Chelsea was so poor then etc. Barca was lucky: loss against mighty Rubin Kazan, goal in Kyev in 86′ minute, they were lucky to draw Stuttgart, they were lucky to not lose by some goals in Stuttgart, they were lucky to play against Arsenal without Arsenal’s (arguably) best 3 players etc etc
niceeeee
“what was so lucky about their matches against Fiorentina?”
Since you asked, I think the prime candidates would be:
1. van Bommel not being sent-off for a two-footed stamp on Montolivo
2. van Bommel not being sent-off for something the referee adjudged as dive, when already on a yellow card
3. Klose not being sent-off for a two-footed lunge at Felipe
4. Gobbi being sent-off for a bodycheck that was not violent conduct
5. Klose being two yards offside for the goal he scored
All in one game, in the worst refereeing performance in the history of the champions league.
Not that the article even mentioned ‘luck’ in the first place
hahaha that’s bullshit
p.s.: i was replying to some “comments”, not the article.
you can add 6. Kroldrup not being sent-off (he scored that funny goal later)
7. Olic incorrectly ruled offside (free on goal)
btw your 4. point…UEFA reviewed Gobbi’s red card and gave him additional 2 match suspension (not like Gilardino’s red card against Lyon) so it was clearly a correct decision.
So even with your two examples it’s 5-2 in Bayern’s favour
4-2 actually
))
I’m not saying it was a good refereeing performace, it was a very bad one, but it was bad for both teams (and Fiora scored an offside goal in 2nd leg). And we can talk about some referee’s decisions but the fact is that Bayern were the better team and should have scored 2nd goal well before Klose’s goal. Fiorentina was pathetic and they deserved to lose. They played like some relegation team in Bundesliga when they play in Munich.
I think it was in response to a comment I also addressed above rather than anything in the article. Keiton’s ire is a little misdirected. As you’ve said yourselves – arguing about referees is pretty boring, but I think Bayern have earned their luck – [and I do think that Gobbi red card was legit, but who wouldn't want to elbow Robben in the throat, eh?]
Its not true….these things happen in games. If this was the worst refereeing game ever, what about the chelsea barcelona game last year. Can we then say that Barcelona didn’t deserve to win the trophy. I am personally a Real Madrid and Chelsea fan but I do acknowledge Barcelona’s win. They deserved to win the way they were playing. So don’t you think Bayern desreved to win…they played well you know and their attacking flair is extremely eye-catching.
It would seem that from coach on down, Lyon choked.
The coach choked by sending them out in a system that didn’t work…he just seemed to freeze. He did nothing decisive even when it was fairly evident that his system was not working.
The players choked by generally having very poor games. Tactics aside, there is something to be said for execution at this level and Lyon should be very disappinted with themselves for their failure to execute on any level. Delgado especially, was woeful..he seemed slow and perenially miscontrolled the ball or mishit passes when Lyon were in promising positions.
This is a poor Bayern team, but they got through..whether by luck or guile or whatever. They have earned their runners-up medals. Lets see who the CL champs will be tonight (yes I am saying that Bayern have zero chance against Inter of Barca).
i guess u guys are pretty frustrated because bayern kicked manu out of the champions league haha. (or that english teams are not that dominant anymore even though they are all in debts after investing millions of pounds in new players)
u guys also said that bayern has 0 chance against manu… and i’ve read the same about lyon too, and who won? bayern. will be the same in the finals, inter is gonna kick barca out tonight, the finals will be 50/50 then… i dont see inter being stronger than manchester, who you all know had no chance against bayern.
I’m English, and I don’t care about Manchester United, and I’m delighted that English clubs have flopped this season.
No-one said Bayern had no chance against Lyon. Check the odds, they were massive favourites.
i know the odds, its about what i’ve read here and on guardian. i just dont understand bayerns bad reputation elsewhere in europe. i dont see them playing unfair or doing special thinks to provoke red cards… u can say they were lucky going through the finals (except of yesterdays match) but they didnt give up. who else came back after a 3:0 in old trafford?? bayern also played some games with only 10 players but still dominated the game, manu wasnt able to do that. its always easy to say its just because of the red card… i am shocked that so many people share SAF opinion about the “typical germans” getting players sent off
You’re delighted the english clubs have flopped out? :’(
It’s certainly made things more interesting. The past three seasons, the ‘big four’ + Barca + Milan were the only clubs making the final four – that was quite tedious (and resulted in an arrogant attitude from a lot of the British football media) so I was quite pleased they got knocked out early, personally.
btw u should not forget that bayern played most of the cl games without ribery and with 4 young players who are in their first season playing for the professionals (alaba, contento, badstuber, mueller), their leader is a player who was sorted out in barcelona years ago (van bommel) and they have a goalgetter who had no chance in real last and was injured all the time (strange, maybe his physical constitution changed within a year lol).
i could write much more about their team (butt, who didnt even have a chance at benfica a couple of years ago and olic whose name u guys probably heard for the first time when he scored his goal against manu), but i think thats enough.
bayerns shows europe that u can be successful without investing millions of euros in new players and rising his depts every year. they are financially stable and succesful as well, show me another club like that? especially in england… chelsea? mancity? pool? manu? lolz
i’m in agreement with a lot of what you say dsj. i think it’s very unfair to pick out the negative aspects of bayern’s game, and almost completely ignore the positives.
even those negative aspects are being blown out of all proportion – i haven’t seen bayern do anything other teams don’t do in order to win, especially teams like manchester united, chelsea and liverpool. As for Van Bommel, he’s been outstanding, he is no worse than someone like fletcher who constantly runs into opponents and fouls them, or essien whose tackling is a disgrace. the way van bommel controls the game, both in possession and out of it, gamesmanship aside, is fantastic.
i can’t understand all the negativity, it smells like bias/xenophobia to me
Actually they are investing pretty heavily (Gomez, Ribery, Robben, Tymoschuk, Olic, the italian playin now with Roma – all didnt come for scratch), but they are still financially stable, so why not. Sad that Ribery won’t make it to the final – with him Bayern’s got arguably the best wings in Europe. When he goes to Real or where-ever in the summer, if they invest the money in some decent defenders, they’ll be a force in Europe for couple of years. They actually should think more who they’re spendin on, e.g. why buy a 35m Gomez, if u have lots of other strikers? With these funds they can easily compete with the best out there.
Olic came for scratch…
btw i always ask myself who u guys mean with typical german… is it ribery? robben? or is it olic? no its probably van bommel, damn… no demichelis? van buyten? ah i know… the coach, van gaal? fuck, hes dutch.
“You guys?”
By that you mean the English? Because of what was said by a Scot? Pull the other one.
no i dont mean the english in general – i mean the people who obviously share the same opinion like Sir alex here on this platform, doesnt matter where they come from, india, pakistan, poland, germany or cambodia…
in my opinion most comments are very unfair
bayern munich deserved this final because they never gave in and always gave it their best to turn games around after they gave away early goals…
seriously what do they have to do to be recognized as what they are? beat barca with 4:3 in the finals?
well i guess even then people will say it was not due to their strength but due to barcas weakness
Bayern Fiorentina
8. In first leg no penalty for Bayern (see http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=lqxQZOEMZsg&feature=related 0:38)
and it was a clear red card for Gobbi.
9. In second leg the second Fiorentina goal was offside. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFGcfdFCV-8 3:12)
So it´s 4-4
I’m not quite sure how anyone can argue that Bayern’s ability to induce bookings is NOT a key part of their tactical plan, especially considering that two of their three ties were decided by a goal with a man advantage.
In fact, I’d go so far as to point out that there is a direct correlation between the expulsions and Bayern still playing in the tournament. Bayern advanced past Man U via away goals, the decisive goal being Robben’s volley after Rafael had been sent off. The consensus is that Robben specifically targeted that post prior to connecting on the volley. As has been previously mentioned on this site, that very post that was left free would have been Rafael’s assignment on the set-piece. If that is not a clear indication of a correlation between the two, then I am not sure what is.
Finally, I have no issues with the strategy of inducing bookings/using the referee to your advantage if possible. As an American-born Italian, having watched more than a few Serie A matches over the course of my lifetime, I realize that it is part of the game. However, I am curious to see whether the same people praising Bayern for this strategy will defend the Italian National team come June if they use a similar tactic to their advantage…
Come on guys, stop with this van Bommel-bashing, it’s ridiculous! He might not be everyone’s favourite player, as his aggressive style of play is, admittedly, not always a pleasure to watch – and at times perhaps a bit provocative. That’s OK, tastes differ. But van Bommel is neither the nasty type of player, as he is constantly depicted in the German media, nor is the unfair “diver” who seeks to get an undeserved booking for his opponents as some of you here argue. He might have been like this in the past, but has changed a lot in the meantime. Instead he finally has become a great tactician, who can perfectly read a match and seems to always know what to do. Sometimes his measures are still rather unpopular, yet, since van Gaal’s arrival in Munich, they haven’t been unsportsmanlike.
…in the recent fairness ranking of the Bundesliga Bayern Munich comes first so they can’t be “too unsportsmanlike”….
Another interesting stats from the UEFA’s website.
Total distance covered:
Altintop – 11841m
Muller – 11740m
Reveillere – 11576m
I know we could not compare the total stats because of the Cris’ red card, but Muller was second in distance covered also in the first leg (second in Bayern’s team and third overall).
Erik
…Ribery is suspended for 3!!! games for his foul in Munich against Lyon … so he misses the final … I wouldn’t call this luck…. IMO 3 games are total inappropriate for such a foul.
…strange that this decision came after they reached the final.
Claude Puel should be mark van Bommel and Schweinsteiger. They are the key of Bayern’s game.
Bayern was lucky till ManU, but their they managed to control a top-notch team in 140 out of 180 minutes.
No comment about Lyon… they just sucked.
Well, I unfortunately do not know enough about tactics but isn’t it interesting that both ManU and Lyon looked bad against Bayern. Was it that they’ve just played bad football or does it depend on bayern’s way to play football?
What can we expect from the final?
I’m very disappointed with the bit of “bias” injected into this once again great analysis. That’s something I hope wouldn’t be part of this site.
Bayern are no more cynical or “lucky” than any other team. Fortune is part of professional sports and all winning teams have it on their way to finals. Bayern aren’t responsible for other players losing their heads like Raffael did, that was the error of a young kid. MvB is a physical player but that is part of his game, his fouling isn’t intentional. Is Scholes a cynical player?
The narrative forming around this Bayern team because of this season’s success is very sad to see. Instead of pointing out how great of a job LvG has done in just one year and how half the squad is made up of products from the academy, and their positive approach to football, and how they’ve only had to pay for three out of the 11 players who played against Lyon, we get this negative interpretation, almost a smear campaign to de-legitimize their success.
Again, someone who can’t criticize an article without leading with an incorrect accusation of ‘bias’, it’s so frustrating.
Bayern ARE more cycnical than other teams, it’s part of their tactics. Van Bommel’s fouling isn’t intentional? Are you having a laugh? Have you ever watched him play?
It strikes me as odd that you felt it was necessary to include something as subjective as that in your tactical analysis, something that isn’t present in anything else you’ve written. Because of that it comes across as biased.
I’ve watched every Bayern game MvB has played since he came to Munich, as well as his days at Barcelona and Eindhoven. He was a physical player in every one of those teams, that is just his playing style and at Bayern he is the “harasser”. And if you take it for what it’s worth, he himself has said his fouling is not intentional, it’s the nature of his playing style and the role he is asked to play at Bayern, a role that he never had to play to this extent at his previous clubs.
Your examples are all circumstantial as well and not indicative of “cynical tactics”. Certainly not conclusive enough to label their tactics cynical.
You must be familiar with LvG’s past teams, being cynical is and was never part of his gameplan and if you’ve watched Bayern this season, you’d see that pretty clearly. Bayern’s game is actually very positive under LvG, possession based, pressing and attacking to the best of their abilities.
I take your point, but I don’t really see what Bayern’s game being “possession based, pressing and attacking to the best of their abilities” has to do with it. That’s perfectly true, but it doesn’t really have any relevance to the debate about them (and van Bommel in particular).
Van Bommel, of course, is going to say his fouling isn’t intentional, that’s just obvious. For him to say the opposite would increase scrutiny on him, and possibly lead to him getting booked more often.
But it’s not ‘biased’ to point out the regularity with which he fouls (and the regularity with which he ‘draws’ fouls) and it has always been a major part of his game, right from his PSV days through to this Champions League run. It is unquestionably a tactic – he is not a clumsy player, he knows what he’s doing – and therefore surely deserves mention on a tactics site. Like it or not, the opposition getting 4 players sent-off in the 6 CL knockout games this season has been important to their success, and it’s not a coincidence given the way van Bommel (and others) play.
I’m not sure why it is ‘biased’ to be critical of a player or a team anyway, if it is deserved. The site has been accused of being biased towards Arsenal and biased against Arsenal within a week, and then the same situation with Inter. Disagreement with and discussion of the articles are the most enjoyable thing about the site, but it’s far more interesting to have a debate about the actual situation rather than the non-existent prejudices of the author.
It may be part of his game but it’s not part of Bayern’s tactical gameplan, and certainly not something that the team is reliant on or something that Van Gaal has instructed him to do. Suggesting that makes it seem like that is the primary way they win games and reached the final and in my mind that discredits what this season’s Bayern team is really about, and that is hard work from the team and fantastic coaching.
If you look at the fairplay table in the Bundesliga, Bayern are in first place and haven’t gotten a single straight red the entire season and have actually collected the least amount of yellows. In the CL, MvB only received 3 yellow cards, not much more than any other player playing a similar role as him, are the other team’s tactics cynical too?
His position is by nature one which incurs some of the most fouls on the pitch and as a result, most cards. If anything, MvB’s fouls are an indicator of Bayern’s tactical setup and lack of a true defensive midfielder, which in turns puts a lot more pressure on MvB (and Schweinsteiger) to hold down the middle. Neither are natural hold midfielders, and were more or less forced to adapt to their roles.
More importantly, if you look at the individual cases of red cards received by the opposition it’s rather clear that there was no conscious attempt to get players sent off. Toulalan stupidly commited two fouls within a short amount of time and had no one to blame but himself. Cris stupidly sarcastically applauded the ref and got himself sent off. Both were experienced players who should have known better. Raffael’s sending off was a case of inexperience getting the best of a player in a heated situation. No one can argue with his foul on Ribery, that was a yellow any way you look at it. All these were purely circumstantial.
While it’s great to look at the bigger picture and try to pinpoint trends to analyze games and team tactics, we must be careful not to be misled by what happened. I should also point out that that I’m an avid reader of this site and have nothing but respect for your work. In no way are my points meant to come across as a vicious criticism and if they have I apologize. Having closely followed this Bayern side in all their endeavours I just feel its a bit of a slight to say that their tactics involve getting players sent off.
Maybe we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this though.
I have to agree 100% with Cris statements (May 02-2010)…. in additon to his comments about the red cards: also the red card for the ellbow against Robbens throat can’t (well, IMO) be linked to any tactics….
van Bommel is a cynical player. But that doesn’t make Bayern more cynical than other teams. Every team has divers and butchers and fair players. Bayern have Lahm and Badstuber and Olic too. Busquets roling on the floor glimpsing what the referee was doing…what a disgrace!! and this from Barcelona, the team of saints, while Messi is admittedly incredible in not being bothered by constant horrific fouls.