Rory Delap – a throw-in taker first, a footballer second
We all know that Rory Delap has a rather long throw, but the statistics from Sunday’s game against Wolves demonstrate quite how much of his game revolves around the taking of throws:
The Chalkboard details his activity:
he’s a player I want to see feature in a major tournament. Champions League, Europa League, Euro 2012, or World Cup 2014, his ability will be a test for the other teams.
In order for his ability to be taken advantage of the team he plays for should be set to a physical game with lots of crosses and big, strong, header-oriented players
I haven’t seen such teams in Europe for a while now
He’s 34 this summer, so I think his England chances has probably gone! Delap’s throws and Crouch’s height might have caused some problems though…
Delap’s England chance went years ago, he has 11 caps for the Republic of Ireland.
He could have been launching his long throws into South Africa if Thierry Henry hadn’t used his own hands to an even greater effect. The irony!
Ridiculous that you thought Delap was English
He is English
Exactly. He’s about as Irish as Kevin Pietersen is English.
The article is misleading. Statistically, he takes more throws than he makes passes simply because Pulis makes him take almost all the throws. Given that the ball spends more time out of play than in, and given that statistically the average amount of contact a player will have with a ball in a game is less than 2 minutes, it is perfectly conceivable that he would take more throws than play passes. Additionally, Stoke are a very direct team, so accuracy of passing and playing through midfield are not priorities. So he frequently gets bypassed when the ball gets played from back to front.
What part of the article is ‘misleading’?!
Nothing you say really contradicts anything mentioned. “He takes more throws than he makes passes simply because Pulis makes him take almost all the throws” is a fairly obvious statement, and “It is perfectly conceivable that he would take more throws than play passes” – well of course it’s conceivable, it happened!
I know what you’re trying to say but even then I don’t agree it’s misleading. Let’s ignore the throws and look at the passes themselves – he only touches the ball 8 TIMES in the whole match in the middle of the pitch. That’s shocking for a Premier League midfielder, regardless of whether he takes throws or not and regardless of whether his team is direct.
See below – Walcott with only 7 passes completed in the Barca 2nd leg. It happens to any footballer. One game does not a statistic make
Yeah but Walcott doesn’t play in the middle of the pitch – and noone passes to him anyway because he’s crap in possession
Lol. But he’s very fast when he doesn’t have the ball
And had Diaby actually passed to him one more time Arsenal could’ve been 2 up. Is Walcott’s 7 touches more an indictment of his teammates than him?
See below: twice over Delap’s last five games (namely, against Hull and West Ham), he passed the ball just eight times.
And in those five games, he attempted 67 passes, whilst taking 86 throw ins.
Is there any analysis on the area covered by him or tackles won, etc.?
One shot (off target)
Four interceptions
1 won tackle
3 lost tackles
3 clearances
0 blocks
1 free-kick conceded
Thanks ZM! That doesn’t seem that he contributes much to defence there…
Good lord. 10 passes completed from open play, 5 of them backwards to his own half. That doesn’t even qualify as a water-carrier.
Well the title “a throw-in taker first, a footballer second” was what I felt was misleading, lol. I think it’s unfair to cast him as merely a throw-in taker
He can do the other stuff too, you know. His strength happens to be throwing the ball a certain way, much like Drogba’s strength is hitting the ground at the speed of light and the passing of a breeze. 
Also, surprisingly for a site that prides itself on in-depth analysis, the consideration for England honours is surprising – he IS an ex-Irish international, you know
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rory_Delap#International_career
It’s interesting in comparison, on a more serious note, that Delap in that game had more than double the completed passes than Walcott in the 2nd leg of Barca v Arsenal. So for all the opprobrium towards him, he did more than twice as well as a player who is generally (and correctly) perceived to be a better player than him. Will there be an article entitled “Walcott – sprinter first, footballer second”?
From a coaching perspective, I would be looking more at Delap’s (or any other player’s) game impact – do they impact the game positively or negatively. Delap most certainly has a positive impact on Stoke’s results, and that is his value to Pulis. It’s unfortunate he doesn’t play for Ireland anymore. Perhaps that’s a suggestion for an article, ZM – player impacts?
Wolves are not Barca!
You can only play what’s in front of you
There are two big differences though.
1) Stoke were at Molineux. Theo Walcott was playing at the Nou Camp, against a side that rarely lets you see any of the ball at all. Arsenal had barely any possession at all. And still, one of Walcott’s passes made Arsenal’s goal.
2) Positionally, central midfielders are going to see a lot more of the ball than wide forward players. They are involved both in attack and in defence, and are close enough to receive passes from the forwards, a winger and full-back, his central midfield parter, and the centre-backs. I mention defence as a central midfielder can often win the ball and then play a pass, simple or otherwise.
The fact that he attempted only 16 passes all game is unfortunately a sad indictment that either a) his team-mates don’t really value his ability with the ball at his feet; or b) central midfielders who can get the ball at their feet isn’t a concern for Stoke City, but having somebody who can throw it far is. It’s a ploy that very much suits the more physical element of their players, and they are sensibly using it to their advantage.
Either way, it does clearly show that Delap is in the side for one reason and one reason only – his extraordinary ability to take long throw-ins. That’s not necessarily a criticism: it has worked superbly for him and for Stoke City. And I’m not saying that Delap is a poor footballer, but he a) isn’t getting the opportunity to demonstrate his skills as a Premier League-class central midfielder (be it winning the ball or passing it); and b) what he can do with his hands/arms is clearly more valuable to Stoke City than what he can do with his feet/head.
So, all in all, Zonal Marking in this case is absolutely correct in suggesting that Rory Delap is “a throw-in taker first, a footballer second”. Would he be a Premiership player still were it not for his throws? Even though he is a decent player, I very much doubt it.
I take your point, Nick. Although I think more people are reading more into MY comments than I did into ZM’s. But either way, interesting discussion.
Incidentally though, when looking at Wikipedia to see when Delap had ended his Ireland career (I had the fortune to see him play a few times at Landsdowne but I forgot when he actually stopped being selected/called it a day), there is a chart for his assists for goals. There are two reported for 97 and 98, when he moved to Derby. Then there is a 4 year gap in assists until he moved to Southampton. This might suggest that Derby saw no value in his long throws, or they weren’t a particularly big part of his play at Derby. So at some point in his career he was at least seen as more than just a long-thrower. Even at Southampton he doesn’t seem to have been utilized for this skill as much as he is at Stoke. Which is kind of what I was getting at in the beginning – the title of the article could be read to be somewhat denigrating (even if it is founded in fact), and I think this is unfair assessment of Delap as a player; you don’t have as long a career as he has by being a one-trick pony. I think the stats are slightly skewed by the fact the Stoke tend to bypass midfield so his time on the ball is automatically limited by that tactic – however, I would be interested to see a comparative stat with his central midfield partners; if they are similar, it can be put down to style of play. If they are wildly different, then it can be said he doesn’t a) get enough of the ball and/or b) he doesn’t have much accuracy in his passing.
On that note, I’d be interested in seeing stats on his passes ATTEMPTED versus passes completed. That would definitely show up the accuracy of his passing.
Good reply though Nick. Well thought out.
On this site there is an article about Stoke versus Arsenal passing completion. Interesting that in that game, Faye in central midfield has only 6 passes completed in total, of which 5 were successful. Perhaps this gives an indication to the value Pulis places on central midfield play.
Of course – in no way was my aim to criticise Delap as a footballer (nor, I would imagine, was Zonal Marking’s).
It’s just pretty clear that in this Stoke set-up he is “a throw-in taker first, a footballer second”.
Delap certainly has had a long career playing for mid-low level sides in the Premiership, and it’s not until he went to Stoke that suddenly this beast of a throw emerged.
I’m certainly of the opinion that in my third proper paragraph above, the b) option (central midfielders who can get the ball at their feet isn’t a concern for Stoke City, but having somebody who can throw it far is) is more the case than the possibility that Delap is simply a rubbish footballer, because he isn’t.
Or, perhaps, wasn’t. Delap is only a couple of months off being 34, so he’s clearly not at the height of his powers. It’s also pretty obvious that he’s not in the team for his ability as a footballer. I’m still pretty shocked how few times a central midfielder can touch the ball. Especially against a team like Wolves (no offence to Wolves fans, I would be saying the same about any bottom-half club).
Doubtless it’s largely down to the way that Stoke play. And they do it so successfully. Equally, however, Stoke aren’t going to sign some bloke from, say, League One, simple because he’s got a big throw if he’s a rubbish footballer.
Whether he is actually a decent footballer or not is beside the point. Because all he’s required to do is effectively be a body in midfield for the opposition to have to work around and not through; and to take throw-ins. Actually using the ball with his feet/head clearly isn’t high on the list of priorities for Stoke City, or even for Delap at the moment.
That Delap has been a good footballer is irrelevant in this particular debate – for the last couple of seasons for Stoke City, he has quite clearly been “a throw-in taker first, a footballer second”.
To be fair, would an article entitled “Walcott – sprinter first, footballer second” be misleading? I think most of us would agree with that analysis of the boy. He has the potential to be more, but right now he isn’t.
Basically Mcgie wanted to actively read in what was left unsaid (but which we all tacitly implied) – that Delap is a useless footballer and is only in the team because he happens to be able to throw a football in a unique way.
Ie, he fails at arguing because, as ZM has already done, once you point to the content of the article there is nothing explicitly therein contained which contradicts anything Mcgie said.
Well if the article tacitly implied that Delap is a useless footballer and if I posit that he has more worth than merely a long throw than that would be a contradiction
Rory Delap’s last five games:
vs Wolves: Passes – 16; Throw ins – 27
vs Hull: Passes – 8; Throw ins – 12
vs West Ham: Passes – 8; Throw ins – 17
vs Spurs: Passes – 23; Throw ins – 10
vs Villa: Passes – 12; Throw ins – 20
Total: Passes – 67; Throw ins – 86
Only once in those five games has he passed the ball more times than he has thrown it; twice he has passed the ball less than 10 times. For a central midfielders, those are not pretty stats.
I’ve no idea if I forgot he played for Ireland or if I simply never knew, but thanks for the correction! He doesn’t sound Irish…
Give him a few Guinnesses and he’ll sound as Irish as they come
If that’s the criteria for being Irish then we’re all Irish
.
Hi all, Stoke fan here, see them play every week.
Ah, Rory Delap…where do we start?
Lets go with the throws first. Delap has such a high number of throws, because generally anything from just about half way into the opposition half is fair game for him to throw straight into the box, whereas most other teams would genereally just have anyone take the throw to get play restarted and then cross the ball into the box.
Seen a few people talking about the effectiveness of the throws, and the truth is, they’re at their most dangerous when Ryan Shawcross is on the field. Abdoulaye Faye (CB) had several chances to score against Wolves, but heading the ball clear is his forte, not scoring. Shawcross is nearly always the target and is as lethal as a striker when heading the ball.
Mama Sidibe is a key player in the effectiveness of the throw too, not for actually scoring from them (his goals to games ratio must be one of the worst for any striker. Ever. In the history of the world. haha) but he draws defenders away from the Shawcross and co., because he is about 6ft4 of striker, and people assume he’s the main threat.
On to Delap as a footballer;
Stoke’s options in central midfield atm are pretty lacking to be honest. We have two ageing uber defensive midfielders, (Amdy Faye (not to be confused with Abdoulaye Faye) and Salif Diao, who’s main skill is breaking up play and opposing players- a bit unfair on Amdy Faye as he has been injured for most of the last two seasons, but Diao has a tackle to foul ratio which i’d estimate to be roughly 1:1, haha)
We also have Glen Whelan, ROI international, and the best passing CM at the club. However he is inconsistent to say the least (he has very good games, where he is fantastic, and days where he is the invisible man) and he gives too much time and space to the opposing midfield (he let Paul Scholes run the show vs Man utd this season) This leaves Rory Delap and Dean Whitehead. Whitehead is basically a younger Delap (minus the throws), and both players main game is basically closing the opposition down and protecting the back four, as well as one of them bombing forwards when we are attacking, in Lampard-esque fashion (just without burying any rebounds in the back of the net) Neither are particuarly talented passers of the ball, but they’re dependable and consistent. (It’s interesting to note that Delap still sprints everywhere, every game like a puppy or a footballer in his 20s, which is impressive when you consider his age, and the fact he got a double leg break in his second game for Stoke)
The stats aren’t helped by our style of play either. I’m not going to beat around the bush, often the full back or centre back (or goalkeeper) gets the ball and smashes it towards the target man, who currently is either Mama Sidibe, who after a bad knee injury last season seems scared to jump for balls, or Dave Kitson- the ginger ninja, who’s actually a good goalscorer and is getting better in this role of target man (the target man role is affectionately known as the ‘Mama’ role, because Sidibe has been doing it since the day he joined Stoke, and was boss at it until his injury) who then plays it to Ricardo Fuller (scorer of god-like goals and the slapper of captains)or Tuncay (the only Stoke player with flowing locks, instead of the regulation Stoke City buzz-cut) However, it also goes out to the wings from the defence or ‘keeper, either to Matthew Etherington, who, 9/10 times, beats his man and gets a cross in, or to Liam Lawrence, when he plays, (who, whilst he cant beat a man, can put a mean cross in and does score a few from outside the box)
Either method (the hoof, or letting the wingers do it) generally doesn’t involve the CMers touching the ball (which generally means Delap + 1 one other (Whitehead or Whelan)so you can see why Rory’s passing stats are on the low side.
It’s certainly not orthadox, but it’s Pulis’s way. He did it when we were in the championship, where, in his first half-season as manager he kept us up with a team full of giants, then in the next season he created a monster of a team, filled with even more 6ft players who, whilst not being the best at scoring, DID have a mean defensive record -this was the ‘binary’ season, where 99% of games involving Stoke ended 0-0, 1-0, 0-1, or 1-1.) And he’s doing the same thing again in the premiership, although hopefully he wont get sacked after his second season (and then re-appointed the season after)
However, for the faint hearted neutrals and haters out there (“Stoke City are the Anti-Christ, stab them through the heart with a stake under a full moon” etc) we have bought a young Uragyuan- DIego Arismendi- who is still a tough tackler, in the Diao mould, and can also play some lovely passes, and another creative CM is top of Stoke’s transfer wish list this summer. Anyway, hope this gives a bit of perspective to some of the stats, which could be perceived as a bit misleading if all you see of Stoke are telly highlights or two games a season against your own team.
Best wishes, fellow football fans
P.S, Delap doesn’t sound Irish, because he was born in Sutton Coldfield (England) and was brought up in Carlisle (England) He qualified to play for Ireland through his parents being Irish. Stoke also have another ‘faux-Irishman’, Liam Lawrence, born and raised in the East Midlands. Glen Whelan is definately Irish though
Cheers for the post, interesting stuff.
Top post. And don’t worry, Bolton are still the Anti-Christ!
Kevin “elbows” Davies single handedly makes Bolton worse than Stoke. Not a fan of Pulis for some of his outspoken comments but he’s doing wonders at the primary job of winning football matches. I wouldn’t say Stoke are a “dangerous” team either, just physical; they play hard but fair.
Oh, i’d like to point out that the graph and ‘chalkboard’ at the top of the page, don’t match; The graph says 16 passes attempted, whilst the chalkboard says 43 attempted- 20 successful, 23 unsuccessful)
Chalkboard includes passes attempted and throw ins under the same section. You have to click it to open up the various subsections.
16 passes + 27 throw ins = 43.
ah okay, my bad
I went to this game as a Wolves supporter.. certainly won’t be getting on my high horse over this as, like a few point out regarding Walcott, Wolves are not Barcelona.
However, just wondering if Zonal Marking knows anywhere you can get the stats for ‘ball in play’ during Premiership matches? I think I’ve seen somewhere that its usually between 65-70 mins but I seriously doubt whether the ball was active for much more than half of this game.. Delap’s throw-ins alone must have been 27 throws x 20-30 seconds = 9 to 13 mins????
Actually 65-70 mins isn’t too bad. I saw a MOD type transmission in the late ’60s early 70s where all “dead play” was edited out and just “ball in play” shown, and they got a whole match into appx. 40 mins. This was in the days of just one selected game being shown and not as is now every match stripped down to bare bones action to fit in with the time schedule.
Following on from the above, you could argue this is a reason for Stoke’s good away record as the game-time is effectively reduced.
[...] by Guardian Chalkboards Zonal Marking [...]
Rory Delap reminds me of penalty corner specialists in hockey who are so important in terms of their set-piece impact that they will be in the team for that reason alone, despite being inferior to other players in terms of ability, form, etc.
Another fair point well made. I think I misread the intent of the article, but had some misgivings about some of the replies around the content, particularly in regards to his low pass completion rate – from a coaching perspective, there’s always more to stats like that than the mere numbers. Are you listening Rafa? (Only kidding
)